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Just _______ Skiing (fill in the blank)

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks to TDK's Extreme Carving link, I came across this YouTube morsel. I did not watch the whole thing, but I was struck by the possibility for commenting on the abilities of the skiing displayed.

Instructors: Can you give an elevator speech (1 minute or less to read) observing what is good about one of these skiers and what you think they could work to improve their skiing? Do you think this video provides a good test of MA skills?

Everyone: Provide one word to describe the kind of skiing seen in the video.
post #2 of 22
Watching the guy in the very first segment....

I really like the way that he is developing a high edge angle while remaining balanced. There are two points of wekness (both related) that I can see. His movements aren't very progressive, meaning that his legs are generally staying in the same positino throughout the turn. He's kind of doing a retracation turn, but he speds very little time moving between the two extensions (to the left and right). The other weakness is in pressure control. He's generating a ton of pressure right in the fall line (where you can see the snow flying out), but very little across the fall line. I'd like to see a little bit more pressure at both the top and bottoms of the turns.

By smoothing out the extensions/retractions, I think the pressure control will fix itself, so I'd like to slow things down for a bit and really focus on shortening and lengthening the legs in a medium radius turn. Then I'd go back to the short radius.

On a barely related topic, I had stopped reading most of the MA threads, because doing MA from a photo (or even a series of photos) is pretty pointless. However, doing it from video is a lot more useful. To really replicate the on-snow environment, we should only watch the segment once (at least if you're practicing Ma for an exam or simply to improve your on-hill teaching).
post #3 of 22
A few words..."full of themselves"
Neither is NEARLY as good as they think they are
post #4 of 22
One more thing...if that guy in the blue/white mugs for the camera one more time I'm gonna sic Highway Star on him
post #5 of 22
The first word that comes to mind is "amateurs". Meaning that they are not trained pros or instructors. But they are obviously competent skiers.

The most disappointing part of their skiing (which is surprisingly similar between the 2 skiers) is the euro-carve influence, which consistently has them weigh the inside skis and wash out the outside ski during the second half of the turn.

This outside ski problem is also evident in short turns, where they are literally unable to get away from a gross down-stem. I hate to say this, but a strong dose of PMTS or race technique would be the best thing that could happen to these skiers.
post #6 of 22
Undercanted.
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
The first word that comes to mind is "amateurs". Meaning that they are not trained pros or instructors. But they are obviously competent skiers.

The most disappointing part of their skiing (which is surprisingly similar between the 2 skiers) is the euro-carve influence, which consistently has them weigh the inside skis and wash out the outside ski during the second half of the turn.

This outside ski problem is also evident in short turns, where they are literally unable to get away from a gross down-stem. I hate to say this, but a strong dose of PMTS or race technique would be the best thing that could happen to these skiers.
I would bave been more impressed if these guys were skiing this way in cut up snow, but this looked like well groomed trails, basicly 'Hero Snow', and these guys weren't skiing like "Hero's".
post #8 of 22
The guy with a white parka with blue sleeves over-rotates his upper body. He tends to plant his pole and leave it there pulling back his inside shoulder. This is directly related to the over rotation. You could say one causes the other or vv. It also contributes to his washing his turns out. Which then causes him to skid out and do a bum slide a couple times.
post #9 of 22
My net connection is giving me problems today, so I can only get the first 3.5 minutes, so this is based on that.
Generally they have pretty similar skiing, I'd guess they ski together a lot, and pattern themselves off eachother, there are a few differences, but what I'm going to say generally applies to both.
Working from the feet up, what I see first is the outside foot slipping behind and losing traction. Pretty big red light for not enough weight on the outside ski, which is consistent with what their upper bodies are doing - lots of tipping in with the shoulders, pretty much no angulation most of the time. There's also some rotation going on there - leading into the turn with the shoulders, more so for the yellow than the blue/white, which is making him wash out his turns a fair bit.

I'd try and get the feet working well first, which means getting his weight to the outside by getting him to angulate more - a simple effective drill would be dragging the outside pole on the snow. Once that's taken care of, the rotation would be next.

I think with a little bit of work these guys could both improve their skiing quite measurably.
post #10 of 22
Quick side note: Anybody know the name and composer of the first song in the film. The one that starts right after the opening credits/titles?
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Congratulations! So far, everyone has kept to the elevator speech. But is it really that hard to find some strengths in their skiing? Anyone besides SoCal? Buehler? I'm smiling because that's what struck me most about this clip. I went whoa and jumped right into opportunities for improvement and had to backtrack to look for strengths. At which point, I stopped doing mental MA and said post it before you get biased as to what the answer is. It looks like my guess that this would be good practice MA video was pretty good. Thanks folks - keep 'em coming!
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by whygimf View Post
Undercanted.
I was going to say "A-frame."
post #13 of 22
"self taught"
post #14 of 22
1998
post #15 of 22
insanely irritating arm movement. tiring to watch.
good point; i think they're having fun.
post #16 of 22
They don't need retraction for what they are doing. If they try skiing pretty much the way they are, but focus on not letting the butt drop as pressure builds, then they will be oin a better position for the next turn and might not need the upper body rotation I see. The key to knowing that they have upper body rotation is watching the hands. The inside hand consistently drops and comes back trough the turn, while the outside is rising. I'd watch to see if keeping taller through the finish of the turn accomplished befor trying another activity. I would also slow them down. Their speed is letting them get some nice angles, but it is masking some of the hangups in their turns.
post #17 of 22

any comment on the fall at 5.48?

maybe because of reading about acl's and noodler today, or because i have not seen a fall in slow motion like this, but it looks dangerous.
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 

That was a close one

You know, I ought to have those 7 contributing factors to phantom foot ACL injury (from Vermont Ski Safety) memorized, but they don't have them listed on the web site any more and I've already taken my copy of the video up to the resort. But let see:
hips below the knees - check for the first part, 1/2 check for the second
hips behind the feet - check
hands below the hips - 1/2 check
I forget the rest, but the critical parts are that he pivots his inside foot to get the inside ski straight in the first part, then gets his hips level to his knees and gives up after the outside ski catches and does not resist falling down in the second part.
post #19 of 22
PROFILE OF THE PHANTOM FOOT ACL

* Uphill arm back.

* Skier off-balance to the rear.

* Hips below the knees.

* Uphill ski unweighted.

* Weight on the inside edge of downhill ski tail.

* Upper body generally facing downhill ski.
post #20 of 22
Single word: spirited.

Elevator speech (I'm not an instructor, but I want to practise MA): Good edge engagement on the longer turns. Both skiers sometimes over-incline to the inside of their turns, overweighting the inside ski, which is often the only thing stopping them from falling. The yellow guy is better than his friend, and in his longer turns is more outside ski dominant and angulated, sometimes getting edge engagement before the fall line. Both tend to rise in transition and drop down as they go through the fall-line, often getting back on the skis in the process. This coincides with (and may cause) a heel thrust type of move. They have all kinds of wild arm-movements, often allowing their inside arm to drop, again contributing to the inside ski dominance. The blue guy is rotating his shoulders as he makes his pole plants. The poor arm movements and heel thrust are much more aparant in their shorter turns, and I suspect these guys would not look nearly as good on rougher terrain that required those short turns.
post #21 of 22
Enough already!!!! I couldn't even finish watching it, it was so bad....

My one thought-

"These guys ski so badly, it hurts my eyes!"


(quote stolen from Konrad Guy, when he was head coach of the Canadian Demo Team....)

So in the rough American vernacular- "These guys SUCK!"
post #22 of 22
Balletic. Also, balanced, graceful.

Watched the vid before reading the thread, and was thinking that I liked the woman in the EC video, just as I like to watch the EC snowboard guys, but that I didn't like to watch these guys. It doesn't mean they can't ski, I'm just not into it. I honestly think it would work better if they found a couple women and did "pairs carving" as sort of a variant to ski ballet. Or did it together themselves, whatever works. Maybe borrow the "swan" outfit from the Olympic men's figure skater or something, they could emphasize the White Pass turn showed a couple times in the video with that outfit. White Pass with white feathers.

There's also a lot of rotation here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhgUYPxBQ1I, only difference being that example is functional whereas for these guys it was serpentine and elegant or affected depending on taste.

The fall towards the end is the one people are commenting on? That was intentional imo, didn't look tough on the knees to me.

They looked like strong skiers who were skiing in a style they liked. Not "amateurs." It's not that different from park skiers or riders tweaking things to be stylish.
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