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messed up the bases-Rats!

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
Does anyone have explicit instructions on how to repair bases?

What I did a while back was to wax the bases on my F4 Volkls. I used a different iron than I usually use. When one does that you always check the temperature of the iron. It’s a basic rule. I violated that rule and paid dearly for it.

These skis have metal in them. Evidently the iron (which I set like my other iron) was way too hot at that setting. I did not check the temp as I should have. I ended up with 3 spots on one ski and one spot on the other. These spots were not melted but they bulged up as if little springs were underneath.

I cut these pieces out and found that the metal had expanded. I repaired with patches but the bulges were still there, of course. I tried drilling holes in the metal sheet, hoping to get some epoxy underneath the holes. This worked partially.

I then took it in to Ski Chalet. They said I was on the right track and just have to fuss with it. They did their repair, but it was the same. I was looking to get rid of the small bulges and get the lines out. These are lines between my patches and the rest of the base.

I took out my patches and cut out the bulged metal (something I didn’t want to do, but had to). I redid my patches. When done everything was nice and flat, no bulges but ugly lines still around the patches and the rest of the base.

BTW- There seems to be two sheets of metal in these skis. Of course P-tex won’t stick to metal. I used epoxy for the patches, widened the lines to get copolymer string into them and then P-tex on top. It’s starting to look a bit better. They do ski well and fast but they look ugly. Patches are holding well.

I have a small, special iron which looks like a soldering iron but with a diagonally flat tip (from Tognar) which heats to 500°. I’ve done a bit better with this tool than with candling. I did use candling in some areas. I’ve noticed that this candled P-tex seems to melt awfully fast if I get my small iron close to it for other repairs, whereas Using just this little iron the P-tex doesn’t melt like the candled P-tex (same P-tex, just using it as a candle or using it with the iron). Candling I guess is hotter and therefore at higher temps, it changes properties. This is my W.A.G. (wild ass guess)

They are getting better, and as I said they ski great, but, Boy, are they ugly!

Question- Is there any way to get rid of these repair lines completely or at least for the most part? Or is it just a matter of holding my tongue right? Help! Inquiring, idiot skier wants to know!

BTW- I do have a Toko waxing iron now. I.e.... is there any way to completely get rid of the repair lines, Or am I pretty much stuck with these marks or lines?
post #2 of 7
I've found over time with miles the line disappear. I've got a pair of skis that I know I've done 2 dime sized core shots and now I can't find them. I use a tognar little repair iron , sounds like the one you have. Put down a layer of copolymer and them iron on ptex strip and plane off excess. Doesn't always look great at first. Ski a couple of days and go back and touch up some more. After you restructure you can't tell where it was. I have used just copolymer only and its a faster job as it melts at lower temp and its alot easier to remove excess and get smooth , but it doesn't wear as well. After a while , ski miles , you can see it wearing away just like candle repair.
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Dougw- Is my guess right? candle p-tex seems to have changed its properties? When I go over stuff, I can always tell what was candled in and what was ironed in with that little iron we have. The candled stuff seems to melt into liquid very fast.

Your comments appreciated on the following:

copolymer doesn't absorb wax very well? Little spots are ok but big shots- lay down co and then cover with p-tex?

Had part of a patch come loose on icy conditions last Sunday AM. cut that part out at a beveled angle and added copolymer for now. Must have been epoxy starved in that one corner?

I still see lines here and there between my patches and the rest of the base. Widen theses lines and fill with P-tex?

Versa-plane planes down excess p-tex but sometimes gouges the base here and there causing more damage than I repair! I push thumb down in the center and try to scrape in one direction only which helps. Any other tool better than that damned versa-plane? [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #4 of 7
Just curious. Did you notice any smoke from the wax/iron at all while you were inflicting this damage?
post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by jyarddog:
Dougw- Is my guess right? candle p-tex seems to have changed its properties? When I go over stuff, I can always tell what was candled in and what was ironed in with that little iron we have. The candled stuff seems to melt into liquid very fast.

Your comments appreciated on the following:

copolymer doesn't absorb wax very well? Little spots are ok but big shots- lay down co and then cover with p-tex?

Had part of a patch come loose on icy conditions last Sunday AM. cut that part out at a beveled angle and added copolymer for now. Must have been epoxy starved in that one corner?

I still see lines here and there between my patches and the rest of the base. Widen theses lines and fill with P-tex?

Versa-plane planes down excess p-tex but sometimes gouges the base here and there causing more damage than I repair! I push thumb down in the center and try to scrape in one direction only which helps. Any other tool better than that damned versa-plane? [img]smile.gif[/img]
I don't do candle repairs now that I have my Iron. No I did a while back using my iron and it was a pain. Mostly just because the pain of cuting slices off of the candle rod. Melts about the same as copolymer. Hence your problem. Its tricky to put on a layer of ptex over copolymer. A lot more heat is required to melt the ptex so the copolymer or candle repair under melts. I've got it down now but several times looked kinda ugly. Have to make sure don't overfill with copolymer to leave room for the ptex top sheet. I'm not sure that the ptex melted on takes wax any better. Seems pretty dense. I take the time over just using copolymer as it wears just as well as the ptex on the ski.

Now that I think of it I did have our problem of trying to do a ptex repair in a area that was candle repaired. Not going to use candles agian for that reason.

"Had part of a patch come loose on icy conditions last Sunday AM. cut that part out at a beveled angle and added copolymer for now. Must have been epoxy starved in that one corner? "
Not sure I can help you there as I don't do patches "glued" on. The ptex repairs I do I use my iron and melt on. the epoxy repairs I've done, bent edge, are apply epoxy and sand. Though there was a procedure at Tognar to put shavings of petx in the epoxy so you could melt on a repair top sheet.

"I still see lines here and there between my patches and the rest of the base. Widen theses lines and fill with P-tex? " Again this is because are patches. If ironed on , I'm guessing, ptex strip at edges of patches and sanded a bit should work.

"Versa-plane planes down excess p-tex but sometimes gouges" Hey, I bought that too only to look at when I got my package from Tognar " I could of bought this at Home Depot, its made by frigging Stanley". Now use it for wood only. Found exactly what you did . I use a ski visions plane. A bit pricey but I've found very worth it.


Also found that the structure bars that you can buy for it work well and cause a lot fewer hairs to be formed compared to using sand paper.

[ February 13, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: dougw ]
post #6 of 7
link to tognar for plane:
http://www.tognar.com/flat.html#SVN-BF1

can also get at artechski.com

http://www.artechski.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=A&Product_Code= 475



[ February 13, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: dougw ]
post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
NE1- Yes I did notice some smoke but not much. I attributed this to cold ambient temperature in my garage, which I should not have done. Mea Culpa! [img]smile.gif[/img] I should have been at room temp for all waxing and repairs. I got lazy and stupid... they tend to go together, right? [img]smile.gif[/img]

dougW- Thanx for all the info. I'll mess with this further. P-Tex doesn't stick to metal. Copolymer does. P-Tex sticks to co-pol. Therefore co-pol onto metal in the ski if present, then P-Tex on top, but you are right... have to be carefull because co-pol likes to melt a bit before the P-Tex does. I've been learning to heat up some P-Tex with my small iron and quickly apply it on top of the co-pol, press down with plastic scraper, add clamp until cool. Seems to be working better.

Will let you all know how it turns out or how I mess it up again! [img]smile.gif[/img] Bob
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