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Extreme Carving (video) - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223 View Post
Boot-out is when you reach a significantly high angle in a turn that your boot is contacting the snow, to the point that it is carrying more load than the edge (since the boot is presumably wider than the ski). The result is the ski losing grip and potentially sliding out completely. WC'ers sometimes grind the outside of their boots to avoid this.
Thank you DD223.
post #32 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNski View Post
Thank you DD223.
Boot out is usually worse when it happens to the inside because that is where your weight should be. If it boots out you loose gripp and off you go. I have a relatively wide foot so I boot out sooner than others. I have found out that maximum lift under boots are imperative when it comes to carving and preventing boot out.
post #33 of 55
nice poles....
post #34 of 55
Awesome video!! You can say it is not carving....but it is. Look at her track. IMO todays ski's are built in a way that wants us all to ski the same way.....a technical half circle. I love it when skiers find ways around the "taught turn" and achieve the same result. I guess that is why I love to watch Bode Miller. Unorthodox.
post #35 of 55
Pretty cool demo. Glad she put this together or I wouldn't have learned what boot out was.
post #36 of 55
She didn't look uphill over her shoulder when crossing the fall line. tsk tsk.
post #37 of 55
Looks like a hoot to me. And it certainly looks like carving. The average Bear would be lucky to achieve and hold those edge angles - with or without the extreme banking...
post #38 of 55
Bonni, in all due respect, why should she look uphill while crossing the fall line??
post #39 of 55
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...881#post613881

Highway Star could be ripping his line straight down the fall line at 90% of the speed of light, and you could collide!
post #40 of 55
Thanks for the link, Bonni. I rarely look up hill. Sure, at an intersection I will. If Highway Star is straight lining it........and he hits me.......sucks being him!! We all know......yield to the downhill skier (boarder)......Right??
Sorry to hijack the thread.
post #41 of 55
I was about to say something negative about it then I watched the video again and realized: I wanna do that.
post #42 of 55
obviously not a great way to ski but.... I love making huge angles turns like that on occasion just to break up the boredom sometimes. It's also alot of fun to lean hard and push your fist into the snow and send up big clouds of snow from your hand. Makes really neat tracks to look at on the way back up the lift.

of course the leaning too much part kinda sucks sometimes cause you loose all contact with the snow and YARD SALE.

Cool vid thanks for posting.
post #43 of 55
Spindrift, the ski she actually has her weight on does not have a particularly high edge angle. She's getting low the snow by weighting the inside ski almost exclusively, virtually squatting down, and barely angulating at all. It might look cool, and no doubt its difficult, not to mention dangerous for her inside knee, but although it might look similar to a hardbooter at a high angle, technically its not really similar.
post #44 of 55

edge angle of inside ski

Adding to Simon's post: It's also evident that she's not on a ski with particularly high edge angle because of her turn radii - most of her turns wouldn't be tight enough for a GS course, and are certainly not as tight as the arcs made by a racer on a modern slalom ski....

What she's doing is definitely cool to look at, and really not so tough on a ski with lots of sidecut, but also only works with forgiving snow on groomers(read: not cruddy, not icy) and is putting her acls at serious risk! If she gets too far back during a transition and dives into a turn on her inside ski, and the huge tip on the ski happens to hook up, she's in prime position for a nasty backwards-twisting fall. Yuck. A teammate of mine blew their ACL while standing up in a slalom course on a flat, finished the run (won, too), and knew that something was wrong immediately. My knees are too valuable to risk with skiing like that....

And, she's nothing like highway star... She at least knows how to carve, that's clear (she's just doing it differently). He THINKS he knows how to carve, but also thinks his posts make sense. Wrong on both counts. (sorry, too easy)

posting probably because of an exam tomorrow,
glytch
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post
I was about to say something negative about it then I watched the video again and realized: I wanna do that.
One of the few with the guts to say it. Do you have rubber knees and ankles like she does? If so, it isn't difficult.

Also Gordon is right, her ACL's are at high risk.
post #46 of 55
I thought it looked fun. Ugly? Maybe. Efficient? No. I wonder how many of us could accomplish this, though. I'm gonna go try it out before we get busy.

Gotta teach a tele lesson at 10:00 so I'd better make it quick....

Ski y'all later,

Spag
post #47 of 55

i doubt that anybody here could ski like this

except maybe highway star(in her dreams)
post #48 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious Spag View Post
I thought it looked fun. Ugly? Maybe. Efficient? No. I wonder how many of us could accomplish this, though. I'm gonna go try it out before we get busy.

Gotta teach a tele lesson at 10:00 so I'd better make it quick....

Ski y'all later,

Spag
Let us know if you could pull it off. Im recovering from a meniscular tear and still have a month to go before I can start skiing again so Im not going to be the test bunny.
post #49 of 55
It looks like she took a page from the alpine boarders.. I have a video of a buddy of mine who literally lays parallel on his board when he turns... Let me dig around and see I can find it..
post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Insufficient edge pressure on the outside ski (I imagine due to boot out or the limited about of surface area in contact with the snow at those angles...)
Yeah in those downhill ski chatter turns it looks like she's riding her inside ski with the outside ski along for the ride and not bearing much weight which probably means its not getting much edge pressure. Id bet she could do better without that inside hand and arm reaching so hard for the snow.
post #51 of 55

extreme carving

This is a great vid. First and formost, to me it looks like she is having fun, and thats what it's all about no mater what your flavor be it pow, gates, or roy. Looks like a blast to do and I do not feel that she is trying to compare herself, or achieve anything close to a racing technique. I have been playing around with extreme carving on both ski's and snowboard for a few years. my goal has been to get my inside hip to contact the snow. I come from a PSIA back ground (II). I have been trying to reach the exreme carve on the ski's and still maintain some level of techniqe. I am not throwing myself as low as she dose in the vid but I have played with a much lower stance, including, at and through the transition. ie crossthrough. While trying to get much stronger turn completion phase of my turns. Which seemed like the thing that PSIA stressed at most levels.
I am interested in your thoughts as I would try to share some of my experiences.
With the advent of the shorter shaper skis, I have cut my poles down more akin to a mogal length, as I feel many people are still skiing with the same length poles as before, and it requires either an awkward pole swing or a rise in the transition, which unweights the skis and releases the edge. Even at a world cup level it seems that the skier that maintains a more evenly weighted ski through all phases of the turn seems to be the fastest barring any other tech flaws. The shorter pole has allowed me to keep the timming mechanism adn achieve a more direct path for my hips to the next turn.
Lately I have been playing with trying to blend and initiate an earlier downhill ski retraction and stronger tipping of the inside ski edging move from the ankle/knee. By retraction I am trying to keep my feet more even, or drawing my inside ski back more in line, next to the downhill ski. Basically a femoral rotation to initiate but I have needed to re-enforce it through out the turn to maintain the edge pressure. The blending and timming of the release is tricky as I do not want to allow my sholders to over rotate up into the hill. But i still want an extreme finish phase fo my turns which is where i bring in some of the mogal skiing seperation of the upper and lower body.
Trying to maintain a more even presure on both ski's through out all phases of the turn rather than letting it build from, and after the fall line. Although it seems to me that some build up is inevitable durring this phase. At least I have not been able to controll it. At the same time, trying to transition from one extreem degree of angulation at the compleetion of a turn, with hips into the hill. To an extreme degree of angulation down the hill and into the new turn at the initiation phase. The crossthrough move and edge change happens instantly and the change from the uphill edges to the downhill edges virtually overlap when done correctly. The lower stance and the crossing through puts my hips in an agressive position quicker, and allows me to get inside the turn at the top of the turn. Allowing me to get very close and at times touching the snow with my inside hip at or near the fall line. i consider these to be aggressive skiing movments and balance is key.

If you are looking for a great rush and have the equipement for it. Try some of this out. But I recomend the hip touch as the goal rather than the hand. If you do it right you actually are lifting your hand away from the snow, which helps to level your shoulders and allows for better angulation and allows you to get your hips lower.

I have seen the ACL vids and rarly feel as though I am in a risky position for injury and I have been skiing for 26++ years, with out injury. (knocking wood) There are a few moments in the vid where the gal seems to be on her tails a bit, but in the one instance near the end she bails out which I belive was one of the recomendaions for when you find yourself with your hips at or below and behind your knees, to try to avoid the ACL injury??
post #52 of 55

You asked: I wonder if that is hard to do and what kind of skis she is on?

Hard to do? Depends on how well you ski already - assuming you can already do linked turns, the answer is - NO, it is NOT hard to do. Maybe hard to do WELL but not hard to do. And it is a lot of fun. More on this in a moment.

Second part, What kind of skis? Depends on how extreme you want to carve - almost any recreational race ski will do, a slalom or GS sidecut will work.

To see how the pros do it, check http://www.carvingcup.com/INGLESE/fis_ita.html

Rule 2.16 says THE USE OF POLES IS FORBIDDEN . Good advice. I've been skiing/teaching on big mountains without poles for 20 years and I love it.

Just drop your poles at the base and try it. Have fun and let us know how it works out for you.

CIAO.

Luke

post #53 of 55

Regarding OP vid...too far inside for my liking...try it in a slalom courseeek.gif

 

   zenny

post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthead View Post

You asked: I wonder if that is hard to do and what kind of skis she is on?

Hard to do? Depends on how well you ski already - assuming you can already do linked turns, the answer is - NO, it is NOT hard to do. Maybe hard to do WELL but not hard to do. And it is a lot of fun. More on this in a moment.

Second part, What kind of skis? Depends on how extreme you want to carve - almost any recreational race ski will do, a slalom or GS sidecut will work.

To see how the pros do it, check http://www.carvingcup.com/INGLESE/fis_ita.html

Rule 2.16 says THE USE OF POLES IS FORBIDDEN . Good advice. I've been skiing/teaching on big mountains without poles for 20 years and I love it.

Just drop your poles at the base and try it. Have fun and let us know how it works out for you.

CIAO.

Luke


I disagree with the statement that if you can link turns, you can do this.  First off...you have to be able to carve a clean line skiing normally.  This already eliminates over 90% of skiers who rely on skidded turns.

 

Next, a normal carve relies on the majority of the pressure being on the outside foot.  This is most the efficient and stable way to do it.  Your body is stacked and you can the most out of your edge angles.  It's easy to hold a high speed turn with your outside leg compared to your inside leg since it's extended and stacked.

 

So to do this sort of "extreme carving", a person needs to be able to balance almost completely on their inside leg during the carve.  This is a very foreign feeling to skiers and needs some practice.  A good skier might be able to figure it out fairly quickly (certain drills practice this exclusively), a bad one..maybe a bit longer.....but in general, it will take some time.  Now, to actually pull off some of these high edge angles using this technique, you have to have really good balance on that inside ski during the carve, and to be able to support the pressures created by the turn with your compressed inside leg....this takes quite a bit of muscular strength.  So even if you have the balance ability, you still need to physically be able to handle it.

post #55 of 55
Wow! Way to resurrect a 5 yr old thread!
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