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What's your first move?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
What's the best way to start a slalom race turn if you want to turn the skis really quickly and sharply, edge first then steer or steer first then edge?
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by canski View Post
What's the best way to start a slalom race turn if you want to turn the skis really quickly and sharply, edge first then steer or steer first then edge?
First lesson in ski racing is "There are no rules only movements that make you faster". In short, it could be either it depends entirely on the turn at hand, the speed and the snow conditions. Don't get hung up on this unless your repretoire does not include both ways of making a turn.

Now if its a PSIA exam. That's a different story
post #3 of 13
Tip... quickly.
post #4 of 13
Pierre nailed it, except we'll have to agree to disagree about the PSIA exam. Since canski is in Canada, eh, it's a moot point.

Heluva, I fail to see how a fast gratuity will help. Everyone knows that it's not possible to buy a turn.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Heluva, I fail to see how a fast gratuity will help. Everyone knows that it's not possible to buy a turn.
Even if you could buy a turn, there are some who still couldn't pull it off...
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by canski View Post
What's the best way to start a slalom race turn if you want to turn the skis really quickly and sharply, edge first then steer or steer first then edge?
Are you speaking of first turns in a course of just each turn? Also, what do you mean by steer (applying rotary force to edged skis or twisting the skis/feet upon the snow)? In a slalom turn, unless you are doing a PET (Pivot Entry Turn) you really don't want to steer (twist the skis around their axis upon the snow), you want to tip, pressure, load, release. Fastest way to get over? Depends on the terrain, set, type of gate, speed. Regardless of how you want to get to your new turn projecting your CMG down hill will get it started. A solid pole plant helps. Absolutely the fastest way to crank 'em while carving/arcing is inward WS (Waist Steer) and a ton of early inward flexion of the inside knee. Another thought is using ILE/OLR (Bicycle turn or getting to long leg/short leg actively) if you are not quite up to speed or on moderate to flat terrain.

If you are talking about the first few turns out of the start the diverging skate/step to get up to speed is critical (depending on the start hill and initial pitch of the course, obviously).
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Pierre nailed it, except we'll have to agree to disagree about the PSIA exam. Since canski is in Canada, eh, it's a moot point.

Heluva, I fail to see how a fast gratuity will help. Everyone knows that it's not possible to buy a turn.
Ah, I see, it was a trick question :
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by canski View Post
What's the best way to start a slalom race turn if you want to turn the skis really quickly and sharply, edge first then steer or steer first then edge?
Any amount of steering even minute, subtle remnants of muscle memory left over from decades of long ski piloting will lead to the less preferred term in the following quote from another thread:
Quote:
USSA manual came today. on page 43 I read:
"Carving by definition for the USST is a form of steering or turning on a semi-engaged edge. The National team staff makes a distinction between carving and arcing, which is a pure carved turn."
"Arcing is a turn on a completely engaged edge, where the tail follows the tip throughout the turn radius. In general terms, it is the fastest and most efficient turn possible"
:

- Fossil
post #9 of 13

Ron LeMaster...

...has a pretty useful discussion of this topic in The Skier's Edge. What he basically says is that arcing (pure carved turn to pure carved turn) is basically only possible in turns with a lot of vertical space and relatively little offset...typically, turns on the flat in GS, Super G, or DH. Most of the time, especially in the tech events, you have to pivot the skis to what he calls the initial steering angle...the angle with respect to the fall line that will then allow you to carve a turn that'll make the gate and also keep you on line to make the next gate. This is a really rough paraphrase, so I'd urge you to go read it at the source. It's what Chad Fleischer calls the "power stivot" (pivot and steering), and it was foreshadowed by what Thor Kallerud came up with back in the late 80s as the "pivot/carve/pivot" sequence...pretty much required as SL and GS become more and more offset...
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by canski View Post
What's the best way to start a slalom race turn if you want to turn the skis really quickly and sharply, edge first then steer or steer first then edge?
Redirect (steer or pivot, preferably pivot) first, then edge. Redirecting edged/engaged skis is slooooooooooow. The skis acts like a brake. Redirect while they're light, then feather into a carve as quickly and cleanly as possible.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Redirect (steer or pivot, preferably pivot) first, then edge. Redirecting edged/engaged skis is slooooooooooow. The skis acts like a brake. Redirect while they're light, then feather into a carve as quickly and cleanly as possible.
This sequence that I used in the pole plant thread illustrates this point:


PIVOT

Feather engage
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone. Lots of good ideas to think about. And yes, I am Canadian and I belong to the CSIA, eh.
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by canski View Post
And yes, I am Canadian and I belong to the CSIA, eh.
Speaking of great SL technique congratulations on Mike Janyk. That kid has been due for a breakthrough. Have watched him ski alot free and in gates; he presents a great model for SL skiing. What does Mike do first - edge then steer or steer then edge? Whatever it is : that is definitely the way to do it.

- Fossil
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