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Biostance alignment?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Has anyone ever had this done before? Did you notice a difference or improvement in your skiing or "ability to get back to center" (quoted from ski shop)? I had it done recently and my skis are getting mounted now - took a good amount of time to first get comfortable, then account for the ramp angle of the old axial bindings. I have another set of skis with the old p12's and i'm wondering if it is worth it to consider this adjustment for them. I will be skiing these skis back to back to see if I can feel a difference but not until sometime in mid January and they are drastically different skis, so I wanted to get some thoughts or experiences with biostance alignment. Thanks.
post #2 of 19
Sphinx,
Seeing as no one else has jumped in to respond I'll give it a try.
I'm reasonably confident that "biostance alignment" is the same as what most of us just refer to as alignment. Some use the word "balancing" or "boot balancing".Whatever you call it, it involves adjusting equipment to match your unique body. Achieving proper alignment results in optimized performance from you and your equipment.

Adjustments may be made to the zepa, (the plastic piece in the boot under the liner) insoles/custom footbeds, boot cuff, boot sole, and binding position. The insoles, or footbeds, provide for both comfort and proper position of the ankle bones. Some tweaking of heel and toe heigth can be done with the zepa and footbed.(this is called adjusting ramp angle)The boot sole can be modified by adding shims under the toe or planeing to achieve both for/aft and lateral alignment. Lateral adjustment is called "canting". Fore and aft adjustments can be done by either changing boot toe and heel height, or by raising or lowering the height of the binding toe or heel. Height adjustments to binding or the outside of the boot change whats called "delta".

Moving bindings forward or back (Campbell balancing) is maybe the last step. For some people, the ski manufacturers chosen position for the bindings may need adjustment.

Does going through this process make a difference? If you were blessed with perfect genes to make a skier, probably not. If you are like about 90% of the population, it helps. How much it helps depends on how far out of alignment you are, what your skill level is, and how serious you are about performance.

I've watched people with serious alignment issues and minimal skills have a whole lot of fun skiing. For me, every time I've tweaked my alignment, skiing got easier, took less energy, and balance and skills improved. Some people deny that any of this is needed except when there are extreme anatomical issues. I've always suspected that they were part of that blessed 10% that got all the good genes.
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hi Kazooski - thanks for the response, however the biostance alignment that I went through was seperate from my boot alignment. I stood up on a platform and clicked into some marker demo bindings on very short skis. I then "walked" in place a bit and flexed my boots in the binders standing on this platform (flat) surface and tried to determine if more weight was on the front or the back of my foot inside my boot. Plates of different sizes were placed between the bottom of my boot and the contact point on the binding on the toe and heal section of the bindings (me clicking out and in each time) until I felt "centered" - that is for my relaxed skiing position I had even pressure on both the front and rear of my foot.

Then my binding toe and heal pieces were measured to determine what the binding ramp angle is, then adjustment plates will be added under my binding toes to get me to my "appropriate" ramp angle when clicked into my skis. It was a pretty involved process, and the reason I'm asking is that the rossi 140's i'm having mounted have a very large ramp angle to begin with, and the look p12's I have on another set of skis have the same ramp angle but do not have the adjustment plates under them. I was hopeing to find someone who had this aligment done that can testify to its effectiveness so I can try and decide if it is worth it or not for the skis I have with the p12's. I will ski the skis back to back but I'm not sure how much difference I'll be able to feel because they are Very different skis. Thanks again for the response and the bump! Anyone else have this done?
post #4 of 19
I have always felt that this qualifys in the Gigantic waste of money category. If your not in pain/discomfort or a racer looking for every extra advantige, I think that you would be better off saving the money for a ski trip or something . Just my .02
post #5 of 19
I just had it done to my new skis. It not only helps ramp angle, but there are canting shims that can be placed on the heels of the binding. The cants are removable so I can switch right, left skis if an edge gets screwed up. I can also pop the cants off so others can demo my ski. Although they'll still have to put up with the bit of toe lift (if they even notice).

I'm going to ski this week....... it'll be interesting.
post #6 of 19
I am curious where is this service being offered? How much is being charged? I have never heard of this? I question this methodology if it does not include ALL the variables in the fore/aft formula and if it does not include on snow testing. Jumping around in short skis in a shop does not seem like it would simulate actual skiing very well??? What about lateral alignment? Was anything done to address this plane? I would like to hear more....

b
post #7 of 19
Bud -- The website is www.biostance.com . There are limited shop placements currently -- the system has been on the market only for a couple of years. Chris Koruch is the boot guy behind it, and a friend of mine is the engineer. I had the opportunity to demo the system at Aspen last year; I am no obviously no authority on bootfitting and I have a fairly neutral foot, but I found the process intriguing. The beauty of the system is that the shims are easy to place and remove, so that the skier can play around with various configurations on the hill. My (amateur) take on it is that it works. I think that the basic premise is that your boots are already fitting properly, and that you can make basic changes to your stance without hassle and without permanent alterations to your boots or having to mount shims under your bindings (especially nice when demoing skis). I would be interested to your take on it.

Bob
post #8 of 19
bbinder,

thanks for the link. I looked at the system and from what I can tell it looks to me like another attempt to mass market the science of boot alignment.

Do you remember Daleboot's patent on the cantable boot sole that Salomon then tryed to market with little success. It only lasted a few years before they dropped it. The problem was most shop techs didn't know how to assess for canting and the stock soles never left the boot. Then a few years back, when Dalbello introduced their cantable sole, they had a great mechanism that was infinitely adjustable and they offered the tools to very easily assess and adjust the boot sole. This is the best system I have seen to date though it didn't last because of the problems with 1) weight, 2)the boot's performance sucked, and the nail in the coffin,3) the sole could come lose and cause serious consiquenses.

I would suspect that this system will see limited success and acceptance. I can see a problem with stocking all the neccessary shim pieces for all the various bindings. Then when a binding company changes their model molds a dealer will have to stock more parts resulting in the inevitable boxes of worthless plastic that will have to be discarded.

There just isn't a substitution for an experienced knowledgable alignment expert who can make the neccessary changes to almost any boot.

Also, unlike the claims on the website, I have balanced thousands of boots over the past 14 years by planing and plating and routing or filling, and have yet to ruin a pair of boots or have to replace a pair. Haven't lost a finger or an eye ball yet either.

Wouldn't it be better to have the shop staff trained to balance boots the right way? I quess if I didn't know what I was doing and I wanted to look like I knew what I was doing I may buy into this system to improve my shop image.

I wish the Korich's lots of luck marketing their system. I hope they make the profits they are seeking.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbinder View Post
Bud -- The website is www.biostance.com . There are limited shop placements currently -- the system has been on the market only for a couple of years. Chris Koruch is the boot guy behind it, and a friend of mine is the engineer. I had the opportunity to demo the system at Aspen last year; I am no obviously no authority on bootfitting and I have a fairly neutral foot, but I found the process intriguing. The beauty of the system is that the shims are easy to place and remove, so that the skier can play around with various configurations on the hill. My (amateur) take on it is that it works. I think that the basic premise is that your boots are already fitting properly, and that you can make basic changes to your stance without hassle and without permanent alterations to your boots or having to mount shims under your bindings (especially nice when demoing skis). I would be interested to your take on it.

Bob
Bob, I didn't know the shims were removable - the way I understood it is that they are fixed plates under your binding. I would love for them to be removable so that I can play with the setting on the hill or even remove them if I don't like them. I pick up my skis and boots this week so I can report back, but I won't be skiing on them until mid January..., maybe EasternSkiBum can report back on how it worked or not for him? Do you know for sure that the shims are removable? binders are rossi axial 140's. thanks
post #10 of 19
When I demoed last year, they were removable pieces and they only had shims for Marker bindings at that point. My understanding is that part of the point is that this was an easily reversible fix.

Bud, thanks for your assesmant. I agree that this is "another way to skin a cat", and I wouldn't dare to think that this a replacement for a skilled bootfitter. I just thought that the system was kind of neat
post #11 of 19
When I demoed last year, they were removable pieces and they only had shims for Marker bindings at that point. My understanding is that part of the point is that this was an easily reversible fix.

Bud, thanks for your assessment. I agree that this is "another way to skin a cat", and I wouldn't dare to think that this a replacement for a skilled bootfitter. I just thought that the system was kind of neat
post #12 of 19
Part of the system is removable (the heel cants) part is not (the toe shims).

BTW.... I had this done at a shop that does real boot work. This system is a tool like everything else.
post #13 of 19
We had the process applied to our skis this year. It worked well for both me and my wife. Chris took care of us in Aspen, and I have to admit, I thought it was a gimmmic until I skied on the finished product. WOW! It made everything fee better. Proper allignment is the key. Having your boot footbed modified without standing in the skis makes no sense. All the footbed work is thrown off if your bindings need to be alligned. Biostance looks at the whole package, boots bindings and skis. That makes sense, and it works.

I heve 2 more pairs of skis heading his way in January.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbinder View Post
When I demoed last year, they were removable pieces and they only had shims for Marker bindings at that point. My understanding is that part of the point is that this was an easily reversible fix.

Bud, thanks for your assessment. I agree that this is "another way to skin a cat", and I wouldn't dare to think that this a replacement for a skilled bootfitter. I just thought that the system was kind of neat
It is a neat system that opens up alignment opportunities to more people and is easily administered! The problems lies in the inventory of plastic pieces and possibly the assessment methodology, However, I can not comment on this accurately until I have the opportunity to see it done in person. will put it on my short least of things to do when I get to Mammoth and footloose or maybe at ESA in Aspen? I am curious!

It would still seem cheaper to address the boots by planing and plating if you have multiple pairs of skis and want to be able to switch skis right and left at will. When the boots are planed it allows you to step in any ski and be laterally on the mark.

b
post #15 of 19
I know that they are set up in the Gorsuch at the base of Aspen Mountiain -- if possible and time allows, I'd love to go with you when we are at ESA Aspen.

Bob
post #16 of 19
Proper alignment is very important, usually ignored, and when attempted, often done incompletely or wrong. Automating the process (for best consistent results) and making it part of the boot or ski/binding purchase should come with every purchase. I don't think these guys' shims are the answer, but might be heading in the right direction. Will they have the shims I need for my new Tyrolia bindings, and my old Tyrolia bindings, and my Salomon bindings, and my Look/Rossi bindings, and my Atomic bindings?

For anyone interested, here's more about alignment
http://www.gmolfoot.com/gmolfootbalance.htm
http://www.gmolfoot.com/gmolfootperformance.htm
http://www.gmolfoot.com/gmolbsm.htm
http://www.lous.ca/Articles/alberta%...rticle%202.pdf
http://www.harbskisystems.com/harald/plates.htm


Ken
post #17 of 19
Their goal, as I understand it, is to have shims available for all or most brands of bindings. Last year, they only had shims for Markers; I don't know where they are at as of this point.
post #18 of 19
It's a date Bob!!

bud
post #19 of 19
Cool -- I'll bring the snacks.
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