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To duck or not to... Snowboard stance - Page 2

post #31 of 47

Once you go duck...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

It does make it slightly harder to carve and pressure the edge than riding with forward angles. (That is a controversial statement, but imo correct.) If carving were everything, we'd all be on Skwaals; and if carving meant nothing, we'd all go without highbacks, and we all know how fun that is, right?
I disagree with the thought that duck makes it harder to carve. The only challenge with the stance angles I use was in toe/heel drag. Lifters at first, and now a wider board have solved that issue. I actually felt (and was given feedback along the same lines) that my heelside carve was super stable, strong, and stacked (better duck than forward). I think that the only limitation to duck (other than the clearance thing) is in using rotary moves to enhance turn shape when carving. I mentioned this on a thread on AASI that when on my race stick, I tend to use my hips and torso more aggressively at the end of a carved turn than when riding the freestyle or all-mountain board. I'm still twisting and using fore/aft moves with each stance though. I enjoy carving with the duck stance and really find no drop off in performance. It's more fun to get your chest on the snow than your side any way.

There's definitely no less ability to "pressure the edge" and really pressure comes from the snow/board contact, not me pushing or whatever on the board. So the tilt (edge angle), speed and snow surface create the pressure that I feel and try to manage, regulate or redirect as the case may be. Stance angles may have an effect on the last statement, but not on the factors creating pressure. I'd say angles that don't match one's anatomy would create the issue, more than directional v. duck. I have no problem from stance in managing, regulating or redirecting pressure during turns.

Current set up: regular stance, 15 front foot, -12 rear foot. I've tooled around with slightly more (18) on the front and slightly less (-9) on the rear, but will start out the year with the current set up. I used to ride like 32 front and 18 rear, but couldn't ride as aggressively as I do now going switch. Way back in the day, I originally started off at 21 front foot and like 9 rear (to match Terje or something).

The comments on matching one's anatomy are right on. The sitting on the edge of a table is a reasonably effective tool to get someone started. I'm not a doctor, so not sure about the higher stress on the knees deal. I've seen someone (with previous knee issues) ride duck (and enjoy it more=ride better), but have knee pain, and others ride duck and have no pain whatsoever.
post #32 of 47
There's no biomechanical free lunch. That's why most rider's stances for specific applications (park, pipe, bx, PGS, freeriding, etc.) tend to cluster within certain bandwidths for each. You definitely can carve duck, you can definitely boardslide with forward angles, it's just good to be aware that those are not the optimal setups for those skills.
post #33 of 47

Duck duck switch

Everyone should ride switch and do a few spins just to explore your board and sport.

I started riding at age 50 at +15 and +6. One day I stood on a step and jumped taking notice of my natural and comfort landing positons. I have been riding +15 and -15 for six years and I ride pretty hard. I steer exclusively with my front foot so I am not stressing my legs or pelvic area by trying to pull the rear foot around. It is a natural feel that works for me on a green or double diamond. Being an East Cast ice border I have limited experience riding deep powder and being old no recent experience landing jumps: therefore no comment to duck duck in these styles.

I can imagine that a back foot steerer would find the duck position physically stressfull ( assuming they are not a kid) and the speed demon mountain blaster would find it both useless and down right stupid. I, in turn, find nailing a black (single) diamond doing spinns and riding switch a bit relaxing. So duck duck is all about your riding style, your natural stance. your style.
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emdur View Post
Everyone should ride switch and do a few spins just to explore your board and sport.

I started riding at age 50 at +15 and +6. One day I stood on a step and jumped taking notice of my natural and comfort landing positons. I have been riding +15 and -15 for six years and I ride pretty hard. I steer exclusively with my front foot so I am not stressing my legs or pelvic area by trying to pull the rear foot around. It is a natural feel that works for me on a green or double diamond. Being an East Cast ice border I have limited experience riding deep powder and being old no recent experience landing jumps: therefore no comment to duck duck in these styles.

I can imagine that a back foot steerer would find the duck position physically stressfull ( assuming they are not a kid) and the speed demon mountain blaster would find it both useless and down right stupid. I, in turn, find nailing a black (single) diamond doing spinns and riding switch a bit relaxing. So duck duck is all about your riding style, your natural stance. your style.


I found the same, however my bindings are 10,-10. I was able to hit the powder at Gore Wed during the snow storm. I think having the -10 helped. I tried 15,-15 that was too much. I started boarding set at 30,28. Not sure if I am as fast now with the current settings but I can go switched where I could not before. I can still use my back foot to flip the board around np.
post #35 of 47
Very good read on all of this and I think I grasped every bit, but to clarify and make sure i'm not messing this up the degree's for your bindings is positive to the front of your board? So if both toes pointed forward then both bindings would have a positive number, where as if they are "ducked" then the first number is positive and the last is negative. I know this is simple but I guess I've never looked at the +/- of my bindings.

Thanks.

Gmac
post #36 of 47
You've got it, Gmac. In a duck stance, the front foot points towards the nose, and the back foot towards the tail.

\ / Looks like that...roughly
post #37 of 47

hey, 

 

i was rockin 18, -18 for the longest time and had no problems whatsoever.. big air, wicked thru trees, and solid on rails... recently went to 18,-21  and its even better... almost full control with butters, pushin almost 540's off small jumps..  ducked is the only way to fly, and it is natural stance for snowboarding.. thats how i see it 

post #38 of 47

And the thread digger of the day award goes too...

post #39 of 47

4 years.  That's quite impressive.

post #40 of 47

I have to agree- pain is the key indicator that you're doing something wrong.

post #41 of 47

The thread that won't go away.....

 

Okay - my 3 cents (inflation, you know).   On a softboot set up I like some forward angle on both feet although when I'm teaching how to ride switch, I'll usually set 'em at duck.  See image.  Most of the time I'm on a race board and generally run 55/45.  Board shown is my 178 Sigi Grabner GS board.

 

longtrailsnowboardsmall.jpg                                                   sg board cropped.jpg

post #42 of 47

Been riding +12/-12 23.5" center to center on 157cm boards for a while. One of my fellow instructors strongly believes I'm too wide and too duck - but I regard his +18/0 20" as not remotely comfortable - especially switch. And he's bigger than me. To each his own.

 

Oddest setup I've seen: student came in with a new board and bindings bought on the net that he SAID he had ridden in the back yard. Setup was +90/+90. Not a typo, +90/+90: straight along the board, toe to heel. I literally did not know what to say. When I mentally rebooted sufficiently to have words again, I suggested that if he was ok with it, I'd fetch my screwdriver and tape measure and give him a middle-of-the-road fitting & setup. Ended up with him at +9/-9. Progressed him nicely in the balance of the lesson.

 

I really would have been at a loss to teach the level 1 lesson on that initial setup. And having trouble even picturing the backyard sess.  ;)

post #43 of 47

I am riding +27/+12 these days.  I've sort of returned to it after a few years of +18/+6.  The first snowboard I owned was a k2 gyrator, and in those days you had to drill your board yourself, so angles were fixed.  I think I ride forward angles today to the degree that I do because they are closest to the angles I (and most) were riding in the late 80's/early 90's.  I think the anatomical/muscle memory patterning we develop through adolescence years sticks in our body.

post #44 of 47

You really have to find out whats comfortable for you. Everyone's body is different so there's no one size fits all stance. I prefer duck 15/-15, it feels naturally for me, similar to a defensive position when playing basketball. Experiment with different angles and see what works for you. I changed my stance countless times this year before settling at 15/-15

post #45 of 47

+15 -15  I like duck because on a true twin board riding switch is identical.

I have a dc mega and flow NX2 gt and burton hail boots.  

with my angles and board I can carve till my heart feels like its in my feet.:D

post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dslim View Post
 

I am riding +27/+12 these days.  I've sort of returned to it after a few years of +18/+6.  The first snowboard I owned was a k2 gyrator, and in those days you had to drill your board yourself, so angles were fixed.  I think I ride forward angles today to the degree that I do because they are closest to the angles I (and most) were riding in the late 80's/early 90's.  I think the anatomical/muscle memory patterning we develop through adolescence years sticks in our body.


I used to ride +30, +15 back when I started riding in '89. Back then I was riding a Kemper that you had to drill into the top sheet to mount your bindings - things have changed a lot since then! Since then I've continually changed stances and now I'm riding +15, -15 which is awesome for riding switch which I do about 40-50% of the time now. Riding switch at +30, +15 was a challenge for sure. My body position has changed markedly since then as well. When I started it was common to ride facing forward - now I ride with my shoulders aligned with the board and I find that this is a much more versatile and forgiving position and makes it much easier to spin and do tricks. The last few years I have really gotten into buttering and flat land tricks so that is definitely one of the reasons for my transition to this style of riding. The most important thing is to do what works for you because being relaxed and comfortable with your style is what will make you a great rider. The most important part of riding that I find is being able to carve well - everything else flows from that.

Initially I had a lot of misgivings about riding duck - I always thought that it would trash my knees but that has not been the case at all - I guess it shows that you always need to be prepared to check out different things.

post #47 of 47

I see a lot of riders getting hung up on angles, but really those angles are all relative to width and centering of the stance. Here are a few pointers for those looking to imp[rove their riding.

 

 

 

1. Small adjustments mean big changes. Make small incremental changes and record them.

 

2. Only make one adjustment at a time (read this again outloud), ride then readjust as needed. Remember conditions affect your ride just as much as stance, so try to find different areas/conditions before making any new adjustment.

 

3. Setting up for switch riding will make you a better rider in more conditions. The ability to seamlessly switch will save your ass over and over. You will fear no mountain.

 

4. Wider stances = more power

 

5. Wider stances can be offset with canting (on some models of binding i.e. Rome) to make it more comfortable.

 

6. Always choose a comfortable stance over a pre-set recommendation (i.e .15/15 15/21, etc).

 

 

There is plenty more technical adjustments available but stick to the basics and have fun, unless you are pro but then again your not if you are reading this.

 

 

And finally, any introduction of new gear into your set up will throw everything off and you will have to reset. Now go out and shred!!

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