EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Would you go skiing without medical insurance?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Would you go skiing without medical insurance? - Page 4

post #91 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrjax View Post
As for you Skiingman, I may not agree with X-EastCoaster, but at least he demonstrates a grasp of the subject material, and presents cogent arguments. The best you can come up with is calling my city a cesspit.
I'm more than capable of cogent arguments in this matter. I choose to post on matters of politics and policy only in the appropriate forum, as an EpicSki supporter. If you were a Supporter, a quick visit to the Search tool would confirm that.

The subject material, as you put it, is a simple but rather existential question. It it entirely unrelated to your meretricious ranting about policy issues. Whether or not it is wise to ski without adequate health insurance has nothing to do with your opinion of Medicare and so forth.
post #92 of 115

Don't Do It

My college roomate's friend paralyzed himself skiing in front of me in Breck a few years ago - easy easy run good ability, complete freak accident. Do you know what that would cost you out of pocket? You'd wipe out your family and then some and then some more and then...

They happen.

Even if something minor happened, it could cost you an arm and a leg.

You have the rest of your life to ski - don't take the risk - the possible cost is far higher than the benefit.
post #93 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXtoDartmouth View Post
My college roomate's friend paralyzed himself skiing in front of me in Breck a few years ago - easy easy run good ability, complete freak accident. Do you know what that would cost you out of pocket?
One of my good local friends broke his neck skiing at Breck without insurance. It was about ten years ago and the surgery cost $60,000. Now it would be at least double that. Being the guy that he is he paid the bill completely in installments. Now he's a multi-millionaire (w/health insurance). Karma is alive and well. Do the right things and it pays off big in the long run.
post #94 of 115
Skiingman - you're not worth wasting time on. I'm glad to see you know how to use a dictionary.
post #95 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAXtoDartmouth
You have the rest of your life to ski - don't take the risk - the possible cost is far higher than the benefit.
It would appear to me that there are two distinct sets of risks at play. One, the risk of financial ruin in case of accident, leads to some compelling arguments that the skiing isn't worth it. On the other hand, the actual risk to life and limb from the act of skiing is variable and most of the risk factors are under the skier's control. Even the risk of being run into by an errant snowboarder (which EpicSki would have you believe to be massive) can be dramatically reduced by carefully choosing the time and place.

I've thought about my injuries and close calls in the last thousand ski days. I have come to the conclusion that the chain of events leading to each one was always in my control and always involved risks I could have easily avoided if I had a compelling reason to do so. One time I got a minor concussion after a freak highside fall on very potent slalom skis the morning after a storm that dumped an inch of freezing rain. There is no real need to ski the day after an ice storm. Thankfully I was wearing a good helmet. At a silly beer race I tweaked my ankle, knee, and shin when my downhill ski hit a nasty hole in a GS course and twisted off (thankfully) despite a DIN of 12.5. Free pitcher aside, there is no compelling reason to try and win the beer race even when you know you are about to hit an ugly hole you saw in inspection. I tweaked my knee screwing up a 360 a half dozen years ago. Same point. There were two times I left groomers at speed backwards into the trees. Both involved me being in a huge hurry to get someplace on slalom skis. User error.

I am, however, a huge wuss and very risk averse guy, so for the most part I just watch other people do dumb stuff. My buddy Drew has broken his wrists five times, tib/fib once, thumb god knows how many times, and sundry other injuries in the same period. Almost all those injuries within a hundred yards of me. He is now one of those granola crunching telemarketers and despite still charging very hard has been surprisingly intact lately.

There is certainly some risk that goes with skiing no matter how careful you are, but I'd suggest that with a good helping of personal responsibility that risk isn't substantially greater than the other risks you must take every day. However, I would also suggest that being without health insurance in the first place is a potent risk that doesn't suggest good risk management skills. This is a bit of a Catch-22; if you were as much of a risk-averse wuss as I am, you wouldn't be comfortable walking down the street without health insurance, much less skiing without health insurance.
post #96 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrjax View Post
Skiingman - you're not worth wasting time on. I'm glad to see you know how to use a dictionary.
Come on now. Be honest, doesn't this exchange just make the urge to become a supporter totally irresistable? You'd get to hang out with Skiingman all the time in the Lounge! It would almost be like leaving your cesspit and being in spectacular Albuquerque! Think of all the big words you'd learn too.
post #97 of 115
Indeed. I'd like to "encourage" ldrjax to join oh so much. It is my pet project.

I do live in the ghetto but I'm not about to claim I don't. I too came here in part for one of the wimminsfolk, but I stayed for the sweet view from my shag-carpet-equipped one bedroom third floor apartment. The FedEx 727 departure at 5am is a free alarm clock. You know, always "the world on time" and whatnot.

The comments about big words are weird; I guess cesspit really threw you for a loop. I'll try to keep it monosyllabic from now on.
post #98 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman View Post
However, I would also suggest that being without health insurance in the first place is a potent risk that doesn't suggest good risk management skills.
Skiingman - One might not have thought it possible, but we agree on something. This is essentially what I what I said in my initial posts. Well put.
post #99 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman View Post
The comments about big words are weird; I guess cesspit really threw you for a loop. I'll try to keep it monosyllabic from now on.
Please do. You're obviously way smarter than me. I need some patience from smart guys like you from time to time.
post #100 of 115
Meretricious- Plausible but false or insincere;

Cesspit-a hole for sewer or garbage

Existential- Based on experience; empirical.

There's three . I'll see if there are more I can help this important discussion define.

Become a supporter we can learn lots of big words from many sources.
post #101 of 115
Wouldnt recommend skiing without insurance - although - I used to ski 100 days a year, 6 consecutive years, in my early 20's without insurance... no major injuries until I was 40... had insurance by then
post #102 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview View Post
One of my good local friends broke his neck skiing at Breck without insurance. It was about ten years ago and the surgery cost $60,000. Now it would be at least double that. Being the guy that he is he paid the bill completely in installments. Now he's a multi-millionaire (w/health insurance). Karma is alive and well. Do the right things and it pays off big in the long run.
Either you have an odd idea of what "karma" means or I don't understand what you've written here. Care to enlighten?
post #103 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
Either you have an odd idea of what "karma" means or I don't understand what you've written here. Care to enlighten?
Sure. I have no problem with people w/o insurance. They are basically self-insured. The problem I have is people who have no intention of paying their bills. My friend worked hard and paid off his entire bill because he has great integrity. Since then he has been rewarded financially and in many other ways. I believe that the two (integrity/success) are linked. And I believe it works equally well in reverse.
post #104 of 115
I see what you're saying and I'd like to think that integrity is linked to success, but I don't. Integrity should be its own reward.

And not to be too much of a jerk but there's no karma here.
Your friend did the bare minimum by paying a medical bill, and you think because of that he was rewarded by becoming a millionaire, etc? That isn't how karma works.

And you say he was able to pay off his entire bill because of the kind of guy he is. So, if he'd been unfortunate to have some other great financial setback or hardship in the meantime and was unable to pay off the bill, would he be a different kind of guy? Less worthy of future success and happiness, or something?

Sorry to jump on you like this...it's not you, just what you've said here about people being able to pay off bills and succeed financially, etc, because of 'the kind of people they are'.

I've seen this kind of thinking used too often to justify harsh attitudes toward the poor and the homeless. It seems just one step away from the "Why don't they just get a job?"

I'm not saying you have these attitudes, I just wanted to point out the implications of what you're saying...and point out that you're using the word "karma" incorrectly.
post #105 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
I'm not saying you have these attitudes, I just wanted to point out the implications of what you're saying...and point out that you're using the word "karma" incorrectly.
That's fine. I don't claim to be an expert on "karma". But I do believe that integrity is one major aspect that leads to financial success. Others being hard work, smart decisions, good advice, generosity, etc. I believe that people are rewarded in the long-term for doing the right things in this world.

When I look at my friend, I know exactly why he's had great success. Paying his hospital bill is a symptom of the kind of guy he is. And, his success is largely due to similar types of decisions.

I agree that there are many circumstances beyond control whereby someone would not be able to pay off their hospital debts. But in many cases the uninsured have no intention and make no effort whatsoever to pay their hospital bills. I believe there are long-term negative consequences for this type of behavior that go beyond just ruined credit.
post #106 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview View Post
That's fine. I don't claim to be an expert on "karma". But I do believe that integrity is one major aspect that leads to financial success. Others being hard work, smart decisions, good advice, generosity, etc. I believe that people are rewarded in the long-term for doing the right things in this world.

When I look at my friend, I know exactly why he's had great success. Paying his hospital bill is a symptom of the kind of guy he is. And, his success is largely due to similar types of decisions.

I agree that there are many circumstances beyond control whereby someone would not be able to pay off their hospital debts. But in many cases the uninsured have no intention and make no effort whatsoever to pay their hospital bills. I believe there are long-term negative consequences for this type of behavior that go beyond just ruined credit.
Why do you think this?

And why do you think these people would make the decision to not pay their hospital bill?

I'm not saying you aren't correct, I'm just interested in your view here.
post #107 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
Why do you think this?
Because my wife is in medicine and sees it every day.

Quote:
And why do you think these people would make the decision to not pay their hospital bill?
I believe our system encourages people to be uninsured. Almost every day my wife tells me of uninsured locals who admit to being drug users, bar drinkers, own cell phones, talk about their skiing, and their vacations, etc. Having health insurance is at the bottom of the list of their financial priorities. I believe that unless someone has accumulated some net worth, there is no incentive to be insured or pay health care bills. If some non-emergency happens (like an ACL), they'll get their surgery if they can put together 20% or so upfront and the only negative is that their credit is ruined when they don't pay the remaining 80%. If it's an emergency tib-fib, they get the surgery free. A friend of mine just had to close his practice because of so many uninsured and none of them pay after their down payment.
post #108 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview View Post
I believe our system encourages people to be uninsured. Almost every day my wife tells me of uninsured locals who admit to being drug users, bar drinkers, own cell phones, talk about their skiing, and their vacations, etc. Having health insurance is at the bottom of the list of their financial priorities. I believe that unless someone has accumulated some net worth, there is no incentive to be insured or pay health care bills. If some non-emergency happens (like an ACL), they'll get their surgery if they can put together 20% or so upfront and the only negative is that their credit is ruined when they don't pay the remaining 80%. If it's an emergency tib-fib, they get the surgery free. A friend of mine just had to close his practice because of so many uninsured and none of them pay after their down payment.
Very well said breckview. This does seem in fact to be the case.

I had a hospital calling here constantly about a room-mate that had mong since moved, and had been treated there about 6 times using 2 names. I told them over and over what this person was doing. She never paid the hospital one red cent and kept using my phone number as the contact number so she wouldn't have to talk to them.

The problem is that most that do this have a credit score of about # 5 to begin with...so there is absolutly no down side for them.....they get treated.....they leave....it costs them nothing....no money....no reduction in an already awful credit rating.
post #109 of 115

Im Living It!

Im 28 and have no health insurance and ski as much as I can. Health insurance for me at this time is just not realistic. Unfortunatly I have rent, school, car, season pass and i'm still scraping. I couldn't afford to pay a hospital bill right now. I couldn't so I would give a fake name soc # and pray they don't catch me! But hey I plan to ski at least 100 times this year what have I got to lose Bankruptcy? Bring it!:
post #110 of 115
Oh man...so many things to say.

100 days out of Albany is very doable though, and I raise my glass to you if you mean it.
post #111 of 115

I do mean it!

Life is too short! Get out and live! The reality of the situation is that i'm a struggling college student with good grades. That's the only thing I have going for me! The fact of the matter is that you don't know when you're going to die. I live healthy and treat my body like a temple. If I get hurt skiing so be it! That's life and until I graduate and have some good credentials I won't be having health insurance. Plus my family is from RENO and I just go to school in Albany. So with vacation breaks I sneak home and ski as much as I can. I hope I make it over 100 times this year. Hopefully I will as this is the first year I have been able to save for a season pass. I'm fortunate though to have a family that supports my healthy habits. And when I'm home I just ski with the old man or ask MOM for money! But insurance just isn't in the cards right now for me. Get out of the house and don't let excuses keep you from what you love doing SKIING! : :
post #112 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
I don't have a job these days, the season is starting and me and my friends are planning a trip. With the impossibly high cost of medical care in the US, I'm wondering if its wise to do so, or should I wait to get a job or buy my own insurance first?

I'm not an advanced or extreme skier and have not been injured before, but I am adventurous and like to push myself so I don't always play it safe.
Don't worry about it. You have health insurance, whether you know it or not.

Teaching hospitals are dirt cheap. You will only have to pay what you can afford. There are a bunch of them up in the Bay Area.

I am in SoCal, and we have a number of them here. USC Medical Center is a high volume teaching hospital which has some great docs.....world renowned actually. And the docs get plenty of practice on accident victims and gun shot victims, so it's not like they don't know what they are doing. I recommend it all the time for people who don't have insurance, or who have high deductibles. And I have no qualms about referring patients there.

A recent patient there had ACl reconst. surgery and it cost her $125 -- total!

A lot of low income people and illegals get their healthcare here, so you might have to wait a while if you're not bleeding to death, or coughing up a lung, so just bring a book.

LA Co. also has a program for low income individuals (I think it's for those who make under 24K/yr, but don't quote me on that). It offers healthcare to individuals who qualify, and the insurance is issued through 3 large ins. cos. Actually, the insurance offered is better than the insurance I have for myself! Most people don't realize this. Just anted to fill everyone in.

SF has similar programs and teaching hospitals.

When people talk about how horrible our healthcare system is in this country, don't believe it. There are always options. I'm sure I'm going to be getting a bunch of Sh*t about this, but it's the truth. You might not get to chose the hospital or doctor you want, but you'll still get treated.

You can also get fairly inexpensive insurance with a high medical deductible ($1500-$5000), but with an emergency room deductible of only $500. So if you don't get sick very often and run to the doctor regularly, it's a pretty good deal as insurance against accidents.

But here's something interesting? And bear with me....I'm not trying to rag on you. How can you afford the lift tickets and lodging of your ski trip if you can't afford a monthly premium for health insurance? You probably haven't had to think about it, probably, thank goodness, because you are healthy. The only reason I bring this up is because I have a brother who complains that he can't afford health insurance, but he plays golf weekly at a course the costs $175/round. Go figure :

At any rate, you really have "health insurance". Just seek a teaching hospital in your area.
post #113 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docjoque View Post
At any rate, you really have "health insurance". Just seek a teaching hospital in your area.
And let the rest of us, through outrageous hospital bills jacked up to cover the non-payers, resulting in outrageous insurance costs, pay for your procedures.
post #114 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by breckview View Post
And let the rest of us, through outrageous hospital bills jacked up to cover the non-payers, resulting in outrageous insurance costs, pay for your procedures.

You do pay for your procedures, it's just not at those exorbitant hospital costs you were just harping about. It's his tax dollars at work, and I'm alluming he's a legal citizen, so that is a right afforded to him. Why should he not use it? I certainly would if I didn't have health insurance. If fact, I have used it in the past, and my Karma is just fine, thank you.
post #115 of 115
Quote:
It's his tax dollars at work, and I'm alluming he's a legal citizen, so that is a right afforded to him. Why should he not use it? I certainly would if I didn't have health insurance. If fact, I have used it in the past, and my Karma is just fine, thank you.
I didn't say he shouldn't use it. There is a difference between using legimate low-income care and faking a social or convincing a doc that you'll cash pay by scrounging up a down-payment when you have no intention of paying the rest.

But the fact remains that if you qualify for such care, it's not "your" tax dollars at work. It's other's tax dollars or others who pay inflated costs for their procedures. My last surgery, the metal parts alone were $19,000.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Would you go skiing without medical insurance?