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Fischer Soma Race 9000 vs Worldcup RC4 (new modell)

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
After having tried on the new modell in a shop i just want to tell you the differences I noticed. The new Worldcup RC4 is basically marketed as the successor to the Race 9000. I haven't skied in either of them, bought the old one 1 month ago and just tried on the new one at my dealer as he promised to let me change for small money in case that it feets me way better

1. Volume
The old boot was much lower volume than the new one from the inside. From the outside they don't differ that much. Pretty much on par when it gets to boot out danger. Both boots definitely can keep up with most plugs in that respect. The new one is both in length and in wideness at the same size (for me 26.5) roomier.

2. Plastics:
The new boot is made out of thinner or softer plastic at room temperature. The new boot is a lot lighter in weight than the old one. The forward flex is now on paar with other boots like Atomic Race Tech CS 130 in that category. the old modell was more like a true plug in respect to stiffness. Getting in and out should even at cold temps not be a problen any more.

3. Buckles:
The new modell definietly closes down very easy and good. I don't know if this is caused by the new buckles or by the fact that the plastics are thinner and softer. No more need to use utmoost force to close the boot down.

4. Liner:
Much softer in the new modell and anatomically better shaped. The old liner was brick hard and more performant in my eyes. New one is too comfy for my feel if you wanna use it for racing only in my eyes. Generel quality seems to have improved though.

5. Cuff alignement - or mistakenly often called canting:
Then new boot seems to have a better concept. I didn't try it out though.

In generell the new boot is much more adapted to consumers than racers. The old one was IMO more a racers boot mistakenly thrown out into the open market. The new modell is still one of the sportiest non plug boots out there and the shell and liner are now made in a way that a lot less work has to be done by the fitter. While the old model was at exactly FIS legal height, becoming illegal when using the bigger heelramp delivered with it, it seems to me that the new model is lowered somewhat and doesn't quite make the maximum stand height allowed by the FIS.
post #2 of 8
Thread Starter 
Oh I sticked to my old one.
Oh the new is marked a 150 Flex while the old one, that was way harder was just labelled 130.
My dealer does not carry the Worldcup Pro which should be a lot harder too.
post #3 of 8
Thanks for the info!

That clearly showed the fact that a new model isn't always better than the old one. IMO a new boot is in many cases better but there are exceptions to the rule. The old Fischer holds your foot better so it is probably an exception to the rule. For me Tecnica was the exception. I hated the forward lean of the diablos.
post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
Well I do hope so, its bloody tight and the liner isn't that thick either. I do hope it nevertheless packs out in the forefoot - but it aint wider than 0.3 to 0.4mm in that area. My problem is that most boots are just too roomy at the heel area, so I'm pretty much forced to use at least a semi-plug but for perfect hold my feet need plugs. The old Fischer was the only boot that was out of the box thight enough taken into account it will pack out, actually even tighter than any other semi-plugs I tried on. (my dealer carries no plugs - the best I can get is a Nordica Dobermann Agressor, Race Tech CS and the respective models of other companies). The next dealer stocking race stock stuff is about 300kms away from my home.

I'ld like to have tried out the Worldcup Pro 130 as I don't really need the superstiff forward lean and many things have improved otherwise. It's the first time Fischer has updated the molds for the high-perfomance series. The last 3 years the 9000 series was AFAIK allways made from the same molds - which were the first. All previous seasons Fischer Soma boots therefore could only improve in details, as they were bound to the molds.
Overall I think the new model was a great improvement and is one of the best boots out there. Maybe a 26.0 off the new model would be all as Garmont does make a completely different liner for every halve size instead of just changing the sole, but my dealer only had 25.5 and 26.5 to 28 in stock. 25.5 was too small (I got a 27.5 foot and Fischer runs small)
post #5 of 8
There are some full plug and semi-plug choices out there but you must know what you want. If you have access to a great bootfitter it would be best to get a full plug for your narrow heel. If you can't see a great bootfitter i would recommend a semi-plug.

Plugs are meant to be ground and if they are comfortable out of the box they are probably too big (or the skier has a very narrow foot). That is why i got a semi-plug. I downsized because plugs and semi-plugs work best with <1 finger shell fit. My Hot Rod Top Fuel has a 0 finger shell fit. With my big toe touching the front my heel is touching the shell in the back. If i squeeze the toes i have 2-3mm behind my heel. I can wear it with the Nordica leather lace-up liner only. With this race fit every problem with the fit is solved. The Dobie has 2 problems (for some skiers). It has a higher than average instep and it is a bit wider in the heel than other semi-plugs. These problems are solved now. I tried on the boot in the next bigger size and i can tell you that the boot did not flex very well. It was also stiffer. The boot has the best flex in the race fit and is significantly softer.
Bottomline, the correct size makes all the difference in the world.
The downside is that the boot will be colder and my big toe touches the front of the boot which will cause some problems.

Other than the fit differences, there are other differences in geometry, plastic compound, liner etc.

Regarding the size, i don't understand why someone would bother to build different liners. If the shell is the same size, why would they change the liner? If they do this the liner will be short lasted and will cause problems. People will end up buying boots that are too big.

Btw, downsize with the new Fischer and throw in a lace-up liner (like the Nordica lace-up or Tecnica lace-up). Let me know how you like the fit. A low volume race liner can make all the difference in the world. Who knows maybe you will like the fit of the WC RC4 with a lace-up liner.

Btw, the Atomic RT Ti/CS and Nordica Hot Rod run big! Downsize if you want to get them.

For me the Nordica is simply the best choice because it has the best fit, best geometry, best liner (bought separately) and the best plastic compound.
Not to be a wise guy but if you want to know more about the fit, geometry, liner and plastic compound of full plug and semi-plug boot let me know and i will send you a pm. I have made some observations based on personal experience and opinons from different bootfitters.
post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Well I don't know. Fischer seems to love to sell the same shell with different liners. (I do assume that the Fischer RX-Fire, RC4 Worldcup and RC4 Race M-Fit essentially all use the same shell with different liners - rc4 worldcup shell maybe a bit different plastic while the later just have a different paint). My dealer told me that the old Soma 9000 (2006) used the same molds as the plug boot by Fischer from 2005 but different plastics. Since that time they have different molds. I don't know if that is correct. I don't trust the dealer that much when it comes to selling equip.

I only ski like 15-20 days a year, my prime interest is still in snowboarding, therefore I can't spend too much money on boots. I visited Johann Leitner (5 hours drive at least) long time ago for my snowboard boots and if I have to visit a bootfitter again I will go and see him. I do have access to other great bootfitters with a 5 hours drive or just waiting when I pass by in Tirol which I do at least every 3-4 month but don't think any bootfitter (except maybe Auer) got more experience regarding semi-plugs and plugs in Austria.

Full Plug with fitting would just be too expensive for me. Semi-Plug with cutom insole must do.

I don't know why Fischer bothers to change the liners for every half size, the fact is that they do it. I think it's still better than going for changing insoles only as most other manufactureurs do. If you go custom you won't mind - that's clear. I would need to check again for their shell sizes - It might be that they have gone up in length from last year which would explain the difference. I know that the RT and the Dobie run even bigger as with them I could have maybe even fitted a 25.5 shell which gives a 0mm fit with Fischer. I had enough toe-nails coming off in my snowboard shell due to supertight fit I'm not going radically low anymore. The Fischer in 26.5 gives me a pretty decent 1 finger fit. I'm still awaiting the day when they start producing shells for every halve-size. (However maybe then the development of new models would take longer as every mold will need to be used up first)

Throwing in a lace up leather liner (I'ld probabely go for a Strolz) or just a plain Conformable foamed one still rests as an option for me in case the liner doesn't pack out enough. For the moment it is super snug and I first have to go skiing before taking further action. (its still 20° Celsius outside to warm for snowmaking even on the glaciers- winter doesn't come early this year in Europe, there were only a very few cold days with snowfall this November).

BTW - Thank you very much for your input. I'ld like to read your findings - feel free to send them to me per PM.
post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 
Oh I will put this info down here so if its wrong people won't criticise me too much. however after having a look at several Fischer models and speaking with a friend who looked at some as well (difficult to find shops who carry the top modells) we have come to the conclusion that there exists basically 3 or maybe 4 shells only to cover the whole range.
1. Shell - Worldcup Pro (never seen it in real, but its definitely different from looking at the pictures)
2. Shell - Used for: ALL RC4 Modells and X-Fire as well as X-Thunder. Just different materials. X-Fire = RC4 Race and X-Thunder = RC 4 Competition. You can see that the recommended price for the respective models is exactly the same.
3. Shell - Soma MX Pro and all boots below except maybe some beginner modells.
According to my friend who called up Fischer there is no real difference between the race fit liner and the thermo fit liner. So for shell 2 all liners are eventually the same. The difference between them being only the plastics used.
post #8 of 8
Thread Starter 
Well one week ago I first rode my new boots. Must say that the performance is great. I never thought about weight distribution or anything like I had to do before.
Things like lifting up the outer leg during a carved turn that I had huge problems doing with my old boots became very easy. As well steering and response is great.

Not so great is the tight fit. After 20 minutes wearing the shoes and skiing socks (thin Falke socks) I had to take the socks off as my feet were hurting badly. I tried to get into the boot without socks but they were too tight to allow for that. So I put on Nylons and managed with some luck to get into the boots. They were still so tight that it was painfull, but with opening all buckles (yes opening all was the only chance) it wass bearable. Second day no better. I have no special place that hurts, its everywhere - so I'm going to see my bootfitter to stretch the boots. Then its no worse than my snowboard hardboots and still comfier than my snowboard softboots in a team edition Boardercrossbinding when I forget to loosen the straps while on the lift.

The stiffness seamed just right to me of the boot. For freeskiing without gates It was good to have the upper buckles not too tight (I love to buckle as hard as my muscles allow me when closing for gates) to have them a bit softer, but in general it was right for me (with both bolts inside and tightened).

About me: Snowboarder loving to ski too. 68kg, size of boot 26.5, 180cm, carving and race technique only, drifting as few as possible.
I used the boots with both a slalom (Snowrider) and a Rossi GS ski (both race dept).

Oh regarding the above. There may exist a Worldcup Pro Shell for sponsored riders only which is even smaller from the outside than the worldcup pro available to all racers. I had some words with the Austrian mens training teams and Fischer riders while being at Zauchensee. Its V-Stance too (even quite crazy V-Stance meaning more than on normal consumer modells)

Fischer claims to be the number one brand shoe this season in the racing teams (WC and EC) for the Austrians on their website (by numbers of athletes), which I think is correct. Many, many Austrians including coaches are now in Fischer plugs which is according to Stephan Görgl a complete redesign not based on the Nordica nor the Lange.
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