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Speed on the trail - too fast or too slow? - Page 2

post #31 of 48
I've found that I can ski as fast as I want at Wachusett....night skiing during the week. Other than that, I think you just have to resign yourself to slower skiing or trying to time your fast bursts between the crowds.
Speaking of fast trails, I love this place:
Any of you guys see these signs at Fernie this year?
"Why be different when you can be indifferent?"
post #32 of 48
I vote with steve1321 and ryan. All the posters here have raised their own valid points and I think grolby has taken it all in stride. I'm glad he started the post. And I hope he sticks around...
post #33 of 48

I saw no such sign at Fernie when I was there in February. But the slopes were so "deserted" compared to an Eastern resort, that speeding would not have been overly dangerous.
post #34 of 48
Sorry I'm late on this, but whatever happened to "On Your Right"/"On Your Left" as you pass skiers.

Nobody mentioned that once. And my wife is is 30+ year skier always rants that nobody says it and it's apparent from this discussion that it's true.
post #35 of 48
When passing skiers, I still holler "On your right" (or left). When passing boarders, I yell "on your heel-side (or toe-side)".

The other tip is to click/clack your poles together several times while coming up on them so that they can hear and judge the side of my approach.
post #36 of 48
Grolby, I lived a similar situation, many years ago...
I was skiing down a run in Selva di Valgardena( the dantercepis) which, usually was not frequented at all
because is a)black b) used for the italian military championship DH race (the weeks
before the event it is usually closed, to avoid damages to the surface).
Usually everyone took the red run. Imagine, a run all for yourself!
Unfortunately those were the peak "Tomba effect" years.
So, down I came, at very high speed feeling perfectly in control, and entered
a part of the run making a narrow "S", being at the top of the "S" one couldn't
see anything. Prudence should have had the better hand and I should have slowed down.
As it is, I, being 100% sure that no-one but absolutely no-one was using that
run, decided to have a go and do not slowed down.
BIG mistake, as I entered the "S", I found out that the middle section was clogged by
an instructor and his beginner (adult) pupil and, a father and her 6/7 years old daughter.
Clogged by 4 ppl, you ask? Yes, steep, narrow, was easily clogged by people stopped dead
in the middle of the run, the girl was clearly cold and frightened, the pupil was struggling.
I suddenly found myself without room to manoeuvre in case of problems.
Still feeling in control, I decided to attempt a swoop between the two pairs of
people. Alas, problems came, I hit a little stone with my downhill ski, and I found myself out of balance,fell,
and was faced with the choiche of hitting the girl OR the father,
in shock I realized I could have badly hurt the girl, I managed to deviate from
her and hit the father. Neither me nor him got hurt,TG, and I was dutifylly scolded by the father
AND by the instructor, to whom I "only" offered my excuses.
Why "only"? Because I knew I was blatantly wrong, I should have THOUGHT first,
and then played "Girardelli".
Even if the girl, a beginner, shouldn't have been there, on a black run, dead stopped in the middle
instead of stopping at the side, the bulk of responsibility was mine, for being
much too fast, and for losing control.
Grolby, by the quality of your posts I see that you are a very intelligent person,
and I am sure that you've learnt something from this mis-adventure, like I did from mine.
I still thank God and the Virgin Mary that no-one got hurt, that time, and have learnt to wait
till I am really sure that a run is empty, instead of taking a guess...
We can only learn from our mistakes.
P.S. I mentioned a "Tomba effect", by this I mean that during those years,
there had been a boom of first timers who wanted to emulate Tomba, and do it now!
So were skiing down black runs at places like Alta Badia, without having the
technical skills (nor the right "psychological" attitude).
I.E., the father and the girl, and the beginner who were on that run, all did that
out of this emulation will, so to be able to go back home and say "we skied a black run,
we're like/better than Tomba!". During the past years, I heard that sentence so many times that
I nearly stopped skiing (out of pure disgust) ...but this is another story.

Quote from Skierteach
I was skiing relatively slow for me, making nicemedium radius carved turns,
down probably the hardest trail at the area and an out of control kid came
flying up behind me, fell and took me out like a bowling ball hitting the pins.
He clearly should not have been on this trail. His father came up to me and told
me I should think about skiing a little more carefully, afterall, there were kids around.
I had all I could do to hold my tongue and not give him a piece of my mind.
If the "behind" truly applies, and if I do understand what "behind" means,
By Golly! You should have.
Your situation is clearly differend from mine and Grolby's, you were right,
that kid has learnt nothing from this mis-adventure but that his father is able to
bully everyone. This is definitely not good.

On the same line, quote from Calg:
The mountain belongs to all and especially the children.
They are immune from any breach of RULES.
I do hope you're being sarcastic with the second part of your post.
Because if you're not, well, then I do wholeheartedly disagree.
Kids are NOT immunes from ANY rules, especially on a mountain.
They need to be EDUCATED, else, there wil be always someone posting
something like: "line chislers...." or "the little punk..."
The need to be educated about something does not equal to being immune from
the same.

Oz, methinks He's learned that (like I did)!

P.S. I always say: "On your left!" (I do try to overcome people on the same side I'd overcome them on a road), but my problem is I have to say it in three languages at least, to be sure that the guy has understood. By then, I am usually lightyears away.
post #37 of 48
A few points:

1. I commend Grolby on his honesty and his willingness to accept constructive criticism.
2. Grolby - try Sunapee; it's not that long a drive and far superior to Wachusett (though I do think Wachusett is very well run given what it is).
3. "On your left/right!" used to be the norm, but I've found that it often tends to scare the person you're passing. It's generally better to slow down if necessary and then to pass unobtrusively.
4. Try to pass boarders on their 'toe' side - then they can see you!
5. I've drilled the 'Skiers' Responsibility Code' into my 14-year-old relentlessly. ("I KNOW, Dad!")
6. I always ski behind my son in order to protect him and help him if he falls. The problem now is that he's getting annoyed waiting for me at the bottom!

Anyway, unfortunately it's like anything else: You have to assume people are going to do stupid stuff. That's why I prefer to ski on weekdays and choose crummy uncrowded trails over good crowded ones.

But I still LOVE skiing!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 28, 2002 12:37 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Tominator ]</font>
post #38 of 48
Sorry if I sounded harsh.

After Grolbys crash posts and now the "watch out" post I thought I would put in plain english that which is not open for discussion.

These days when I hear "on the right\left" I always wonder if I am actually being told to get out of the way. "on the right\left" seems to have become a "watch out I am coming through" call instead of "excuse me I care for you and would just like to let you know I am here and I take full responsibility for my overtaking".

I prefer the pole clicking deal. Be aware that in vocalising your presence when overtaking that the intended target may not actually hear you. The resposibility is always on the overtaking skier ... no discussion required.

OZ [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #39 of 48
reminds me when i first began to do some serious riding (the bike). rider ahead of me would point down and out to the side. i'd be thinking "what the hell is he doing," then BAM!
a pothole.
that's what he was doing.
post #40 of 48

Yeah. More than once I've called "on your right (or left)" and had person shoot in front of me because they thought I was telling them to go to that side.

Same thing happens on a bike. Maybe I really should have one of those retro dinger bells...
post #41 of 48
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhosThatGirl:
You've got to take the high road and not crash into children.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, abosolutely. When there are kids on the trail, you have to swallow your pride, ambition and not risk touching them. No matter what the child does (could fall, make a wild, unanticipated move), if you hit the child, your going to be in a world of hurt. Stay away and look for other terrain.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 28, 2002 05:18 PM: Message edited 1 time, by JimBobBubba ]</font>
post #42 of 48
Thread Starter 
Tominator - passing on the toeside sounds like a good idea, regardless of how fast people are skiing or riding. Good call! And yeah, the poor kid's back was to me as I passed him [img]redface.gif[/img] . The little guy was probably scared half to death - a sudden, loud, skssssshhhhh!, and then ZOOM! as I cruise by him.

Oz, I hope you aren't inferring that because I fall down occasionally and have done some stupid things in the past - skiing without lessons, skiing terrain park jumps way too soon, skiing too fast - that I am a danger to people on the ski slopes. Yes, I definitely have done some stupid things in the past, and a couple of them, especially the skiing without lessons, put not only myself but other people at risk. It's interesting to note that I almost hit a kid on a black, due to being a bit irresponsible with regard to speed and not looking ahead enough, but that I DID hit another skier while skiing slowly and paying far more attention to what was going on around me, due to the fact that I did not know how to ski and was out of control. The collision was minor, but it happened, and the fault was squarely mine. THIS skier WAS on the edge of the trail.

So, control made the difference between hitting and missing that snowboarder. What will make the difference between almost hitting the snowboarder and never having to worry about it will be looking down the hill, and responding appropriately to other skiers/riders. I don't think I'm a dangerous skier - but I definitely believe that I could be a safer skier, and go fast too. I'll have to check out some other mountains, I suppose [img]smile.gif[/img]. Wachusett = great for learning, poor for speeding.
post #43 of 48
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grolby:
...I was about halfway down, cruising along and carving at probably 25 mph or so, when I came up on a little snowboarder, maybe 8 years old, just cruising along at almost nothing. He wasn't quite sidescraping, but it was close. I was already in a steady carve to the right that would take me right around him when he turned hard to the right, maybe trying to stop or something, right in the middle of the trail. This brought him pretty squarely into my path :. Scared to death, I pressured the tips as hard as the anemic rental boots would let me, praying to the ski-gods that the dull edges would't let go and let me skid into the poor kid. Thankfully, I cleared him by maybe a foot, but there are a number of things wrong here.

Easy solution: scream angerly at the kid and threaten to beat him. "Get off the trail! Get off the damn trail!" Then, "I'm gonna put on a little show of my own. I'm gonna give you the beating of a lifetime in front of these people," as you slide your belt off.

Should educate the little bugger.

post #44 of 48
Or take his nickel bag away from him.
post #45 of 48
Neat link, SnoKarver. Does that mean we should all ski real slowly until the crowd ahead moves far enough away that we can LET IT RIP!?

Grolby, what you experienced has happened to me too. [img]redface.gif[/img] You feel so free and alive when rippin' that you lose sight of other guy's reality. It seems to me a slow and unpredictable reality. Now, if I could only convince him that MY reality should be his too. : :
post #46 of 48
If it gets too busy on the groom then ski the trees. Anyone out there is either in control : or just trying to survive. : and is only a threat to themselves.
post #47 of 48

There has been far too much talk about the other guys responsibility on this forum. Your thread was going the same way.

Remember the song ... "buffalo girls go round the outside, round the outside" and a clear path through the debris will always appear.

Share the hill and be safe .... its up to you.

Happy skiing.

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #48 of 48
The usual story here, this week I was doing what little speed control we do at Big Sky. Its 3:00 (15:00) and the trail I am on is crowded even for Big Sky standards. This trail is marked on the trail map as a slow skiing area. A guy flys by going staight and fast. I am on a snowmoblie so I follow him. I meet with him at the bootom of a lift to discuss things. Until he unplugs his walkman, there is poor interface of ideas. He unplugs one ear and immediately starts right back at me. "I was only doing 35 mph, I am a season pass holder and know this mountain well. I was along the treeline and staying clear of the beginners... etc". No point in me getting my blood pressure elevated so I let him rant. End the discussion by suggesting he take a less crowded route down the hill. No response except a hostile look. This guy was as old as I am (40+) not even close to the usual young out of control skier. On the other hand, the 3 sub-20 year olds I talked to about tucking were way polite and apologetic. Go figure.
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