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upright stance

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Dear Friends,
I prefer a boot with an upright, more vertical stance, with less forward lean. Dalbello Kryptons would probably be the best choice, especially as the forward lean is adjustable. But I suspect they may be too narrow for the forward part of my foot. Does anyone have thoughts concerning Salomon XWave 9 and 10 or Atomic B-Tech B 100 boots?
Do these salomon and atomic boots have an upright, less forward lean, more vertical stance?

Thanks for you help with this problem. John
post #2 of 13
I had X-Wave 9s and now have Kryptons. The X-waves with the spoilers all the way up put you so far forward you can hardly walk in the boots. If you put the spoilers all the way down on the X-waves they are about the same as the Kryptons with the bigger forward lean shims.

Because the Kryps have a progressive flex tongue, if you have them upright you will have to lean pretty far before you are getting much pressure on them. I may be wrong, but I don't think they are really designed to be skied real upright. I believe everyone on this forum with Kryps uses the bigger forward lean shim. If you do ski them upright you'll probably need to go with the stiffer tongue.

Hope this is of some help.
post #3 of 13
I use my Kryptons and my Flexons without any forward lean shims. The trend these days is to generally get as upright as possible while still keeping the front of your kneecaps over your toes when you're in your skis. Modern ski technique requires that you maintain pressure against the boot tongue, but we don't "drive" the tips of the ski with forward pressure - it's all about tip-n-roll now.

mudfoot - I'm not sure where you got these ideas from, but the Kryptons ski very well even with the softest tongue driving some of the most demanding skis currently manufactured.
post #4 of 13
If you are going to buy Kryptons, the only way to get them is with the "Custom" Intuition liner. They are a great deal with this liner in them as an Intuition liner sold sperately is over $200! Street price on the Krypton with the custom liner is $599!! You may need to pregrind or prestretch the forefoot area before the liners are molded but should then be able to get very comfortable unless you have extraordinarily wide feet.

b
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
mudfoot - I'm not sure where you got these ideas from, but the Kryptons ski very well even with the softest tongue driving some of the most demanding skis currently manufactured.
After skiing the Kryps for a while I switched to the softer tongues and don't have any problem driving any of my skis, but because of the way the tongues progressively get stiffer as you flex them, without any forward lean shims they seemed really soft from a "straight up" (acutally 13 degrees) position. I skied for 10 years on Flexons and used the big lean shims on those too. You are the first person I have encountered that skis them without any lean shim in the boot. I guess I still have an old school style of hanging on the front of the boots. Since I'm 6'5" I like to get low when I ski. I would love to see what you look like skiing them for a style comparison.
post #6 of 13
I can't speak to the Salomon Falcon series because I haven't skied them. But the Salomon Course series has a very upright stance and that is why I switched to them.
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
After skiing the Kryps for a while I switched to the softer tongues and don't have any problem driving any of my skis, but because of the way the tongues progressively get stiffer as you flex them, without any forward lean shims they seemed really soft from a "straight up" (acutally 13 degrees) position. I skied for 10 years on Flexons and used the big lean shims on those too. You are the first person I have encountered that skis them without any lean shim in the boot. I guess I still have an old school style of hanging on the front of the boots. Since I'm 6'5" I like to get low when I ski. I would love to see what you look like skiing them for a style comparison.
You and I have very different body types. It just goes to show that a boot like the Krypton is an excellent choice for many different people since it's so customizable out of the box. I wouldn't necessarily say you're driving them old school - it could be that due to your height you may just need the shims to achieve a balanced position. Bud (throwing his name out since he just replied in this thread) is one of the few boot gurus in the country that actually can perform these assessments very well.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
I would love to see what you look like skiing them for a style comparison.
BTW - There's video and still shots of me all over this place (some would probably say too much ) - you just have to look for me. Generally I'm in Flexons for most, but there are some Vail shots with me on the Kryptons.
post #9 of 13
Noodler:

I checked out some of the pics and the video (I think it was at Snowbird). Your position does not look that much differnent than mine, taking into account the different body types. I have tried skiing with boots in a more upright postion and it leaves me pretty helpless. I even stacked the small and large shims in my Flexons for a while. I know the newer shape skis are suppose to be driven more from the middle, but I think I tend to start on the tips and ride the turn through to the tails a bit. That's probably why I hate short skis, because they rob me of the full experience of working the ski through the turn. I like a long ski with a soft tail so I get two shots at every turn. It's nice to be able to decelerate or shape the end of the turn with the tails. If they have snap I get rid of them. The Kryps work just right for me. Hopefully, we'll get to ski together someday and compare Krypton performace at the two ends of the lean spectrum.
post #10 of 13
The atomics come set at 14 degrees with about the least ramp angle of any boot on the market. It is very easy to modify them to get another degree or two less by messing with the little plastic washer and filing between where the upper mates with the lower shell in the rear. doesn't take long. I've done this to two pairs in the last two years for myself.
post #11 of 13
Why has nobdoy suggested the spk's they sound perfect for you and im pretty sure they have less than 14 degree ramp
post #12 of 13
Just some rambling thoughts:

upright stance is affected by "forward lean" of boot and "delta angle" of binding. ramp angle does not affect the lower leg angle.

a boot could have a over 20 degrees of forward lean yet if there is a negative delta angle the skier could be in a more upright stance even though their net forward lean was quite radical - OR - a boot could have 10 degrees of forward lean and the binding have a steeper delta angle and the net result would be the same.

Point being, forward lean does not neccessarily dictate how upright a stance is. When discussing an "upright stance" we need to look at forward lean of the shaft as well as delta angles to get a true picture of the "net shaft angle".


I don't know if my methodology is ideal but... I usually look first at my dorsiflexion related adjustment needs and try to create a net forward lean angle that matches a 50/50 distribution of pressure ball and heel when standing barefooted on a level floor. I don't know the exact biomechanic reasons, However; it would seem to coincide with gregfits post in another thread on dorsiflexion, which stated that he believes the achillies tendon needs to be "prestretched" abit to optimize balance. My method is not an exact science but the skier will migrate to a position that feels comfortable and distributes the weight fairly evenly. I then measure this angle and try to recreate it inside the boot by adjusting the ramp angle and the forward lean (if possible).

Once this angle of the ankle is established I look at the skier in the system with boots on and clicked in their skis. Using the preliminary plumb bob from the knee to the boot toe target, I will adjust the delta angle by plating the boot sole with differing thickness plates and/or shimming under the bindings to achieve this relationship.

Using this method, a shorter tib/fib'd person will not have as upright of a stance as a person with a longer tib/fib. Though the final adjustment is not decided until some dynamic testing can be performed on snow, this gets it in the ball park.

I would think if one gets their boots too upright they will probably need a leverage advantage of a heel lift or increased ramp angle in zeppa to compensate. The combination of an upright boot with a flat ramp had better be pretty soft unless your binding has alot of delta angle (ie:Look, Rossi), I would think...
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsill View Post
Dear Friends,
I prefer a boot with an upright, more vertical stance, with less forward lean. Dalbello Kryptons would probably be the best choice, especially as the forward lean is adjustable. But I suspect they may be too narrow for the forward part of my foot. Does anyone have thoughts concerning Salomon XWave 9 and 10 or Atomic B-Tech B 100 boots?
Do these salomon and atomic boots have an upright, less forward lean, more vertical stance?

Thanks for you help with this problem. John
How to buy a ski boot:

Go to a professional bootfitter.
Buy the boots he says you should use.
Return for bootfitting.
Ski to your potential.

Simple.
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