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PE's and Armada's

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
The perfect one ski quiver still eludes me. So any help would be sweet.
I want a pow, groomer, trees, park ski that is fun to ski. I'm not a mach 10 speed demon or uber expert yet, but i want a ski that will help me get to that level. Something thats not going to ski ME, but is an excellent set of planks. (if that makes sense.)

Me: 5' 11'
165 lbs.

List so far:
- Armada ARV
- K2 PE
- Head Mojo 90
- Volkl Karma
- Seth Vicious
- suggestions...?

*I realize my list varies a lot in stiffness but I like to keep an open mind. I really don't know how to gauge stiffness and the performance of the ski...I live in the West and plan to ski groomers as well. Any help?

Thanks for everything
post #2 of 24
Your about my height and weight, I really enjoyed the 179 K2 PE in Utah last January. Ripped the groomers, not bad in the Pow for only 85mm waist. The Vicious is softer and wider, better in deep POW but not as stable on groomers I would think. Havn't skied the others. The PE is very fun ski.
post #3 of 24
From that list I only have experience on the Mojo 90's, and love them. IMO it satisfies your requirements perfectly. I haven't been on them, but I'd probably take the Seth Vicious off the list, they'd be the best in pure pow and crud, but wouldn't be as fun on groomers, trees, and park as the others if you aren't an uber-expert yet.
post #4 of 24
I have the Karmas in a 177.

I'm 5'11" 185, btw.

Love that ski on windblown pow, boot sole deep pow, and softish groomers. It's a little sketchy on ice, but otherwise pretty damn bueno.

I have not skied the ARV, but I own a pair of AR5's. I skied them about 3-5 days last season and eventually decided that I don't like 'em too much. A bit soft for my taste and a little squirrely for all mountain.
post #5 of 24
I tried the Armada ARVs while heliskiing in New Zealand in August. I hired these instead of using my Atomic M:EXs, at the advice of the heliski operator. Most other people, except a mate an I, hired Apache Chiefs but they'd run out of these.

In short, I thought the Armadas were crap - they folded like noodles over bumps and tracks in the powder. I was mentally cursing the heli operator who recommended them but perhaps I should have been more wary when the first suggestion was Dynastar 8000s (narrower than my M:EXs) and they didn't ask about my preferences, skiing style etc. My mate was wishing he had his Fischer slalom skis - he reckons these would have been better for the pow (maybe a slight exaggeration but we both normally ski stiff skis - Atomic SX11s or M:EX for me).

Although I've only tried them for a day, I wouldn't get the Armadas as part of a quiver - never mind as a ski for a range of conditions.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Cool, thanks guys

I'm pretty sure the ARV's are off my list now as well as the Seths.
The Head Mojo 90 get rave reviews from everywhere i research in forums and such, so as of now those are my top ski. I suppose the PE's are still in the running, but I'm starting to feel a little trigger happy on the Mojo's...
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilio L View Post
Cool, thanks guys

I'm pretty sure the ARV's are off my list now as well as the Seths.
The Head Mojo 90 get rave reviews from everywhere i research in forums and such, so as of now those are my top ski. I suppose the PE's are still in the running, but I'm starting to feel a little trigger happy on the Mojo's...
Yeah I got some prety well used Madtrix Mojos, which were the predecessors to teh Mojo 90, and while I've only had one day on them, they really are a great landing platform for 5' drops, and you can really go fast through uneven snow (in this case, slightly softened death cookies) quite well, only caught a tail once the whole day, which, considering the conditions, was quite impressive. Carved pretty well for a fat ski too. Have yet to try them in powder, but hopefully will be doing just that in a couple of days...
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilio L View Post
- Seth Vicious
-
best bet

EDIT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singel View Post
From that list I only have experience on the Mojo 90's, and love them. IMO it satisfies your requirements perfectly. I haven't been on them, but I'd probably take the Seth Vicious off the list, they'd be the best in pure pow and crud, but wouldn't be as fun on groomers, trees, and park as the others if you aren't an uber-expert yet.
Where the heck do you come off saying that if you have never been on them. I have been on them and they are awsome on groomers park and trees if anything they are not the best in pure pow and leave something to be desired in crud. They are a great all mountain ski for any west coster.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
Where the heck do you come off saying that if you have never been on them. I have been on them and they are awsome on groomers park and trees if anything they are not the best in pure pow and leave something to be desired in crud. They are a great all mountain ski for any west coster.
Easy B Squad:. I have no doubt that they are sweet skis, and I'm not saying they aren't any good on groomers/park/trees, but they definately aren't a great all mountain ski for any west "coster" as you say. On TGR Seth's might almost be considered carving skis, but for a lot of people here they might be only purely for powder.

From the info the original poster gave us, IMO they are not going to be his best option. I'll bet if he demoed the Seth's vs. a few other's on his list he would find them a little more sluggish on groomers, trees and in the park:

"I want a pow, groomer, trees, park ski that is fun to ski. I'm not a mach 10 speed demon or uber expert yet, but i want a ski that will help me get to that level."

Of course not only uber-experts could use Seth's as all mountain skis, but they aren't necessarily the smartest choice depending on your style and intended terrain. Comparing the Mojo 90's with Seth's, he would definately be able to rail the Mojo's better on groomers, they'd be quicker and more responsive in the trees, and lighter/easier to throw around in the park. Chances are these benefits are going to outweigh the extra float and crud busting he'd find out of the Seth's.

You seem to be stoked about your B Squads for your own one ski quiver, but I'm sure you can see how they wouldn't work for everyone. Remember every skier is different, and you have to go off what they tell you. If he posted the same list and said he was looking to huck cliffs and charge hard then I would have told him to scrap everything other than the Seth's and look at other skis similar to them.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singel View Post
Easy B Squad:. I have no doubt that they are sweet skis, and I'm not saying they aren't any good on groomers/park/trees, but they definately aren't a great all mountain ski for any west "coster" as you say. On TGR Seth's might almost be considered carving skis, but for a lot of people here they might be only purely for powder.

From the info the original poster gave us, IMO they are not going to be his best option. I'll bet if he demoed the Seth's vs. a few other's on his list he would find them a little more sluggish on groomers, trees and in the park:

"I want a pow, groomer, trees, park ski that is fun to ski. I'm not a mach 10 speed demon or uber expert yet, but i want a ski that will help me get to that level."


Of course not only uber-experts could use Seth's as all mountain skis, but they aren't necessarily the smartest choice depending on your style and intended terrain. Comparing the Mojo 90's with Seth's, he would definately be able to rail the Mojo's better on groomers, they'd be quicker and more responsive in the trees, and lighter/easier to throw around in the park. Chances are these benefits are going to outweigh the extra float and crud busting he'd find out of the Seth's.

You seem to be stoked about your B Squads for your own one ski quiver, but I'm sure you can see how they wouldn't work for everyone. Remember every skier is different, and you have to go off what they tell you. If he posted the same list and said he was looking to huck cliffs and charge hard then I would have told him to scrap everything other than the Seth's and look at other skis similar to them.
you have never skied them so please stop telling me what they ski like. They are fairly soft skis especially in the shorter lengths, I would suggest a 179 for this guy or maybe even a 169. They have a short turning radius (handle trees well) but will make all sorts of turns with ease. as for park I know so many kids who use pistols or viciouses for their park only ski. They are not expert skis, they are very intermediate friendly and require almost no getting use to. They are fun easy skis not huge bigmountain guns like you seem to think.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Yikes!

PhilT, I understand your comments on the Seth. I have read many reviews that have praised them for there agileness and diversity. It's interesting that you said you know people who use the ski for a park only ski! From what I have read and researched, they seem to be pretty heavy.

I'm still very interested in the K2 line just because they're K2 and they make great bomber, easy, and fun planks, however I guess I'm not convinced that the Seths would be able to outweigh the Mojo 90's in terms of what I'm trying to get (comments of Singel).

I realize that you have the experience and epinions that would challenge that thinking. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the comparison.
post #12 of 24
I am 1 inch taller and excatly the same weight. I have skied out of your list the 2 K2s and the Volkl. Get the 179 Seth.

The reason this ski work well for alot of people on groomers is the lots of sidecut for a fat ski, and a soft tip also prety torisonally stiff to for a big fat light ski. My only complaint on the seth is crud perforamance was lacking, but felt above average everywhere else to me.
post #13 of 24
Since this thread seems to have somewhat turned into a pissing match between PhilT and anybody who seemingly disagrees with him, I thought I'd offer us some advice that may actually be beneficial to Emilio.

CONTACT SIERRAJIM!!!

Why?

1. SJ has 30+ years experience in the industry (no disrespect intended, but take into consideration that PhilT is only 16, that would give SJ at least 3X the experience, insight, and wisdom in reference to skiing and ski equipment).

2. SJ owns a shop in Northern California.
http://shop.sierrasnowboard.com/
His shop carries both K2 and Armada skis (as well as 4Frnt).
If Jim hasn't skied both of the models you are interested in, I guarantee you that somebody in his shop has and either he or they will be able to offer you up a solid comparision.

Those are just my 2cents.

(And Phil, I think a lotta cats on these forums are cutting you slack because you're only 16, but you need to chill when it comes to some of your responses. They come off a little arrogant and hot-headed and probably aren't going to endear you to many of the folks who post on these forums regularly. If you check out the responses from long time posters and peruse the site a little more you'll see that most of them are non-confrontational and pretty mellow. The emphasis and overall vibe of Epic that I've picked up on here in the short time I've been posting is on "community" and developing friendships, not turning people off by being combative and flaming others, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Case in point: earlier in this thread you jumped all over Singel. Yet it was painfully obvious that you hadn't really read his post. While Singel admitted to not having tried the Seth, he did flat out say that he felt the ski might not "be as fun on groomers, trees, and park as the others if you aren't an uber-expert yet." Notice the "uber-expert" caveat he tacked on at the end.

Anyway, I'm not trying to harsh anybody's mellow, just trying to smooth things out. Afterall, we're just talking about skiing, which should be fun, not confrontational! It's good to be passionate, but not at the cost of others passion and fun.

At any rate, hope you're lovin' those beefy B-Squads. We still ain't got no snow here in Cali!


Booga-booga!
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks for playing referee there dookey67. Seemed like I stirred some rather strong epinions in this thread. It seems like as soon as I decide on the Mojo's, the Seth's come back into the picture...and when I decide on the Seth's the MOJO's come back into the picture. Its a never ending struggle.

At this point I'm just thinking too hard. They are both great skis, I just want to be able to say I got the better set of planks, ya know?...

Thanks
post #15 of 24
NS.

I work at an online magazine, so I'm all too well versed with Message Board theatrics!

Like I said, you should PM SierraJim. He may be just the cat to shed some light on the subject.
post #16 of 24
Sorry not meaning to jump on any one. I was just trying to recomend the best ski for emilio. I got a little worked up I admit, when i saw someone steering him away from what in my opinion is the best choice for him. As for my recomendation you shoud only take it as that a recomendation. As dookey67 says I would def talk to someone who gets a chance to ski a lot of skis and with the popularity of the seth I gurentee a lot of people have. Also as dookey67 says I am only 16years old though to be fair to myself I am a 16year old with 13 years of experience and over 100 days last season. What that means is I think i am fairly quailfied to evaluate the skis however being only sixteen i do not know how an older person might feel on the skis (I know my dad likes skis which I would never consider skiing).

I hope I havent truly offended anybody just trying to be helpful, the head is a great ski but I think the seth would fit you better.
post #17 of 24
It's all good PhilT...just reminding you to check yourself before you wreck yourself!



These boards tend to be a little more "friendly" and less about the ribbing and "flaming" than the TGR boards. Both provide great information, are great connection tools, but they have totally different flavors.

I pretty much expect to get slammed when I post to TGR (one just has to look at the responses to my Spatula thread here and the one on TGR to see the difference in the clinentele).

And I didn't mean to harsh on your youth. But even though you have 13 years under your belt, somebody with 30-50 is gonna have just a little more life experience and overall expertise in terms of discussing gear, especially if they own a shop, have been an instructor, and regularly demo skis throughout the season.

As for # of days on the slope? I don't know if that's much of a factor. I logged in 39 last year, almost twice what any of my friends did. But that doesn't make me a better skier than many of them. It just means that I went to the mountains more and shelled out more $$$.

Of course I'd like to think if I logged in 100+ days I'd be pretty bad-a$$...

Stay up!

PS:
send some of that PacNorWest snow down Tahoe way. I see Baker has like a 30" base, while we're lucky to have less than 6"!
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
It's all good PhilT...just reminding you to check yourself before you wreck yourself!



These boards tend to be a little more "friendly" and less about the ribbing and "flaming" than the TGR boards. Both provide great information, are great connection tools, but they have totally different flavors.

I pretty much expect to get slammed when I post to TGR (one just has to look at the responses to my Spatula thread here and the one on TGR to see the difference in the clinentele).

And I didn't mean to harsh on your youth. But even though you have 13 years under your belt, somebody with 30-50 is gonna have just a little more life experience and overall expertise in terms of discussing gear, especially if they own a shop, have been an instructor, and regularly demo skis throughout the season.

As for # of days on the slope? I don't know if that's much of a factor. I logged in 39 last year, almost twice what any of my friends did. But that doesn't make me a better skier than many of them. It just means that I went to the mountains more and shelled out more $$$.

Of course I'd like to think if I logged in 100+ days I'd be pretty bad-a$$...

Stay up!

PS:
send some of that PacNorWest snow down Tahoe way. I see Baker has like a 30" base, while we're lucky to have less than 6"!
Bah humbug I am in new york right now sitting in the airport because continental gave away my ticket but I am looking forward to the goods when i get home.

This doesnt look to shaby:




EDIT: emilio I just realized you live in washington, where? I could actually recomend a ski better if you told me what area Stevens, baker, mission ridge, xtal, apental, snocrummy etc. I've been to most and could probably recomend a good ski based on what terrain is there.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
PhilT, I live in Olympia WA. I ski most of my time at Crystal, and White Pass, however my cousin works at Keystone in Colorado, so I usually hang with him at least once or twice a year.

A question for the Seth's: at Crystal and White Pass, the later season usually brings a lot of ice and crappy snow. No matter how hard you look over the mountain the best snow is OK and usually has a layer of crust on top. Just wondering if the Seth's softer flex (comparatively to the Mojo's) would be able to handle that kind of terrain.

...or would the good snow performance outweigh the bad snow performance?...
post #20 of 24
The thing about the seths is they get stiffer and stiffer the closer towards the center of the ski from the end. So you have pritty good edge hold underfoot but you are going to have some flop in the tip/tail on icey crust. You are going to have problems with thick crust on pretty much any ski you try unless you are looking at super stiff skis IE the head mojo103. I think that you would be pretty happy on the seths, I was talking to shane szocs this summer and he said that the seth is a great all around pnw ski however you need to consider that he is a k2 athlete so...
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
hmmm...thats interesting. I have heard SO much difference in the ski's performance can be acounted to where you mount your bindings on the Seths--mabye the stiffness in the center has something to do with it....

Going on that thought, where on the Seths did you mount/what do you suggest???
post #22 of 24
Since it sounds like you've narrowed it down your best option would be to demo both pairs and go with whichever you prefer. I'm sure you'd be happy on either pair since they're both great skis, but the only way to tell which one is better for you now is really just to try them both

Phil, I think we were just interpreting what Emilio was saying in his first post differently in terms of what we thought he wanted out of the skis. Of course nothing replaces having time on a pair of skis, but my opinion on the Seth's was just coming from my experience on similar skis, looking at the design and construction of the Seth's, and from hearing other people's impressions from skiing them. It's all good, just wanted to let you know where I was coming from.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilio L View Post
hmmm...thats interesting. I have heard SO much difference in the ski's performance can be acounted to where you mount your bindings on the Seths--mabye the stiffness in the center has something to do with it....

Going on that thought, where on the Seths did you mount/what do you suggest???
In general I go at the line or -1 for powder all mountain and then up to + 5 depending on how much you care about park performance
post #24 of 24
Owned the 179 Seth's last year and skied them several days at Crystal/Crustal last year. Killer in the pow and crud, but hated them on the groomers or anything firm. There really seems to be a mixed and varied opinion of these. I had mine mounted at mid-point (rear-most line) so that might have had something to do with why they rocked in pow-pow, but were lousy on groomers. In fact, they are worse than my Gotamas on groomed!!

For point of reference, I owned 179 and 189 Pistols prior to these and loved them, but wished for less deflection in deep, heavy snow. The Seth's fixed that problem for me, but gave up a lot in terms of being a true one-ski quiver all-mtn. stick. Anyhow, that's my thoughts after being on them for a few days.

I have been challenged with the same quandary as Emilio for skiing the PNW...where is that special one-ski quiver? I'm still working that out, but the Mojo 90's are on my list, too. Until then, I just stick to my 724 Pro's on firm days and rock the fatties when its >6" on fresh.
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