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I'll bet none of you know the answer to this question - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Well, not this middle-ager. People behind me usually complain when they catch up to me at the lift.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskitoofast4u View Post
This isn't a ski vs. board issue, dude. It's the generation gap being played out on the slopes.
Exactly. He even pointed out that it was younger kids (15-17) doing the majority of it. I'm only 28, but I can tell you that teenage kids nowadays are a hell of a lot more rude and disrespectful than they used to be.
post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
Funny, if somoeone asked me the question, who gets in your way the most on ski runs? I would answer, middleaged and older people.
As would I, MAGGOT. Notdeadyet specifically called out the younger generation of snowboarders, however, which is why I directed my comments in that direction.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSouthRider View Post
I'm only 28, but I can tell you that teenage kids nowadays are a hell of a lot more rude and disrespectful than they used to be.

I love that statement!

You're going to be a great crotchety old man .
post #35 of 58

People are just stupid...?

How come everyone wants to make it illegal to be stupid? I think that if anyone wants to be dumb enough to just relax anywhere they feel, must assume the risk they're gonna get crushed. And I mean crushed cause I'm not a light weight and I can't guarantee that I'm going to be able to avoid all hazards. And yes I've run a few of these morons over on accident. I will never for get the flying drop kick (with skis) that I put on one teenage girl because she decided to park herself in my path. Man I thought I killed her at first. I know that I knocked the wind out of her. I took it as an opportune moment to explain to her in a very nice way that it's not smart, safe or courteous to make camp in the middle of busy runs.

I think this applies to us all and in no one in particular. Look don't sweat it. Your on the mountain to enjoy yourself not be on the look out for code infractions. If you want you can Barney Fife the mountain and give everyone the "in my day speech" or you could simply inform the lifty or patrol. It's just that easy.

By the way there is this nasty little rumor that a bunch of those kids are bored riding their snowboard contraptions and now riding these skis that are called twin tipped and they're going down the runs backwards.... look out dumb people stopped in the middle of the run.

Now if you want to file a real complaint maybe we could concentrate on how filthy most of these little bugger's mouths are.
post #36 of 58

Calm down please

Although some might consider the thread starter baiting, I've physically met people on the hill with the same question, albeit phrased with more of "let's start a fight" tone. Such people do not realize that stopping in plain sight in the middle of a very wide trail without blocking it does not violate "Your Responsibility Code" and is often safer than stopping at the edge of a trail where someone may insist on proving that you did not move all the way to the edge or complain about you blocking their access to the good snow. Granted that totally blocking a trail is verboten, but it's hard to grant that that is the predominant mode of sittage. Somehow the anger that this practice engenders blinds skiers to the fact that other skiers do the same amount of blocking, they just do it standing up. Now people can argues about this all day and call each other names, but the wonderful idea here is to give everyone a little respect, politely ask to get by or gently let people know that might be safer spots on the mountain to stop for a rest. We should be doing the same in our threads here in Barking Bear land.

Thank you.
post #37 of 58
As Rusty says respect will get you more cooperation than agressive behavior. It's not what you do ,in our social world but where you do it that affects others the most. ,
As we discussed earlier grouping before drops and in clear areas leaving room on either sides seems to be the best behavior. Skiers are more to blame than snowboarders doing the same behaviors because there are more of us.
The biggest concern I have for my snowboarder kids and friends is they are udefended from behind when they sit with their backs to the upper slopes. When i am with them I post myself behind them to defend their unprotected position.
Skiers must be aware of the vulnerablilities of this postition and steer clear of them . Snowboarders can make themselves safer by clustering and leaving channels on either sides of them to let people pass through safely
post #38 of 58
tito is bragging about crashing into people WHO ARE NOT MOVING including teenage girl, and my post in response gets deleted. All I said was that he had proven his point...
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tito View Post
...crushed cause I'm not a light weight and I can't guarantee that I'm going to be able to avoid all hazards. And yes I've run a few of these morons...
Nice. Welcome to Epic. I'm the bad guy. The guy who stops frequently. (More so when skiing than boarding.) I'm the guy you are threatening to injure, and you scare me. Why can't you stop or turn to avoid people? You really should not be skiing if you can not obey the code of conduct.
post #40 of 58
Okay I knew that this was going to be taken out of context by someone. I don't know how I came off as bragging about taking people out. That's ridiculous! I'm guessing that I'm the only person who's had a collision on the mountain. Maybe I should have expressed the fact that these girls where just standing around in the middle of the run. A run that has a bunch of traffic on a busy day or not. The problem was they're decided to set up camp and I was forced to come to the best stop that I could by another skier and with all my might I couldn't make it happen. My point was to show that you can be as responsible as you want but accidents will happen and there is a certain amount of responsibility others must assume if they are not going to use their brain. It's just like playing in traffic isn't it. Does anyone sit down in the road to break for coffee and a quick chat? No you pull over for that.

If I'm the only person on this forum that had ever run over someone younger than them then your probably right I should just cherish the 15 years I have of skiing and hang it up.

Grow up!
post #41 of 58
It was entirely your fault, the victims were not even moving! Could you have been going too fast for the crowded conditions? Could you have been on an easier run, more suited to your ability? Could you have been on a more difficult run that would be less crowded?

When you are on a very crowded slope, slow down!

If you need an example based on driving, have you ever been stuck in stop and go traffic? Where cars are stopped directly in front of you, right in the middle of the lane? If so, were you able to drive at your preferred speed? Did you attempt to do so?

You defiantly show NO remorse, and you definitely ARE threatening to do it again.
post #42 of 58
And why are you now blaming "another skier"? Who was at fault, the girls or the other skier? Or you?
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tito View Post
...If I'm the only person on this forum that had ever run over someone younger than them then your probably right I should just cherish the 15 years I have of skiing and hang it up.
You should not ski unless you can obey the code. It doesn't matter at all whether or not you are the only one here that endangers others and repeatedly crashes into them. Skiers have been rightfully convicted on charge of assault for doing exactly that.
post #44 of 58
10-4 Good Buddy your right.
post #45 of 58
My home area is quite crowded, and somehow I've never had an entire run choked off. I have had to work around church groups, families of 5, large insular groups based on ethnicity, and yes, groups of skiers or snowboarders. If someone is truly in my way a friendly "excuse me" always seems to work wonders. Show respect and you get respect, it's not hard. I'm sure there are really obnoxious young punks out there somewhere, though the only time I've really dealt with any aggro or localism it hasn't related to gear choice or trail blockage nor involved young punks.

Hearing about someone lecturing a young girl after drop-kicking her on skis when she was stopped and below you makes the baby Jesus want to cry. Learn the Code.
post #46 of 58
There's a ski gang that has members everywhere. Their 'colors' include a cross on their backs, and I've seen them pull ropes across the entire trail right at the entrance of it. I take the rope down, but they put it right back up. Very dangerous if you can't ollie three feet off the snow. I can't and found out the hard way.
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Nice. Welcome to Epic. I'm the bad guy. The guy who stops frequently. (More so when skiing than boarding.) I'm the guy you are threatening to injure, and you scare me. Why can't you stop or turn to avoid people? You really should not be skiing if you can not obey the code of conduct.
Well part of the code of conduct includes not stopping in blind areas. I always ski well within my ability for the conditions, which include the crowdedness/lack of crowdedness. I am always in control, and make sure that I am looking ahead to see obstacles (human or otherwise) in time to avoid them.

If there is a blind spot I cannot see, I take it as a matter of faith that people will be smart enough to not stop underneath. If someone puts themselves in the tiny little areas that aren't clearly (or even slightly) visible from above, I say its thier fault if they get hit.

Just the same, I try not to go maching into said blind areas, because I wouldn't want to hit someone, even if they were stupid, if Tito had a momentary lapse of reason and was going a touch too fast into a blind spot, surely he is not totaly to blame for the fact the some idiot was there in the first place right?

And just an fyi, I don't think he was bragging, in fact I think he was saying how he felt bad, and was maybe a little upset at the girl, because he really didn't want her to get hurt.
post #48 of 58
I think the point being made here is not so much the blind spots (everyone agrees that's bad), but simply stopping in the middle of the trail in plain sight. In the old days, when trails were pretty small, stopping the middle would block up a good portion of the trail. Sometimes nowadays, stopping in middle of a big wide trail can be like a pedestrian stopping in the middle of a crowded sidewalk. That too provides a significant interruption of the flow. Neither of these examples is necessarily a violation of Your Responsibility Code until the stoppage qualifies as an "obstruction". Modern trail designs and all but the most crowded of conditions mean that simply stopping does not create an obstruction IMHO.

The first problem here is when a collision occurs when the stopped skier is not an obstruction. I often see collisions where one skier swerves to miss another skier but then ends up crashing into a third. I swallow hard every time I hear the excuse "but he/she was in my way". It's your responsibility to avoid people ahead of you - especially when unforseen things happen. Yes, accidents do happen, but that does not mean you haven't shirked your responsibility. In fact, when you shirk your responsibilities, accidents are more likely to happen. I see this happen a lot when people are skiing enough in control to avoid one thing going wrong, but not enough in control to avoid multiple things going wrong.

The second problem is when people get their panties in a bunch because they see people stopped (either sitting or standing) all over the trail. If there is enough room to safely get around them, it's not a big deal. You shouldn't need a 100 foot circle of clear space to get down a slope safely.
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
Funny, if somoeone asked me the question, who gets in your way the most on ski runs? I would answer, middleaged and older people.
And if someone asked me that same question, I would say flatlanders of all description - boarders, skiers, young, old, whatever - if they're from Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, etc, they're in the way . The other possiblity is that the answer is "people who ski/ride fewer than 10 days per year."

I've watched several groups of riders, young and old, go from being occassional riders a few weekends a year, to being regulars on the mountain, with 12 to 20 days a year. (A lot of this happened when Vail resorts first introduced the buddy pass - all at once getting in more than 7 or 8 days got within a lot more folks' budgests.) It seemed that once some threshold was reached, all of these groups adopted much more 'responsible' or 'reasonable' behaviour.

I do think that it is part of being part of a group. At some point of gaining repeated exposure to the group that really comprises the "regulars" on a mountain, the new folks realize which behaviours it is that marks them as being "outside" this group. Things like stopping out of sight from above, blocking a lip (i.e. "jump"), lining up across a slope, etc - these things are frowned on by knowledgeable, experienced, and just plain good riders, and they want to be part of that group.

I don't think that I've ever seen the behaviours being complained about (whether in skiers or boarders) displayed by folks who get out there 30+ days a year, but I see it all the time in the folks (young, old, skiers, boarders, male, female, rich, poor, etc) who get out there 5 or 6 days a year. Which tells me that correct behaviour really is a learned behaviour - and it seems to be learned by more experience in a shorter amount of time (i.e. someone who rides 100 days across 20 years, at a rate of 4-6 days a year probalby won't learn it unless they get a good bit instruction that they actually listen too, whereas someone who rides 25 days in a single year will probably have "gotten it" by the end of that single year).

J
post #50 of 58
I went skiing Saturday and not far after the lift there was a pack of snowboarders all strung out so they could converse as a group . I thought of this thread and laughed to myself. But ,I must say they were off on one half of the hill to the higher side but easily took up over half of the available space. They were doing no harm.
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake75 View Post
And if someone asked me that same question, I would say flatlanders of all description - boarders, skiers, young, old, whatever - if they're from Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, etc, they're in the way . The other possiblity is that the answer is "people who ski/ride fewer than 10 days per year."

I've watched several groups of riders, young and old, go from being occassional riders a few weekends a year, to being regulars on the mountain, with 12 to 20 days a year. (A lot of this happened when Vail resorts first introduced the buddy pass - all at once getting in more than 7 or 8 days got within a lot more folks' budgests.) It seemed that once some threshold was reached, all of these groups adopted much more 'responsible' or 'reasonable' behaviour.

I do think that it is part of being part of a group. At some point of gaining repeated exposure to the group that really comprises the "regulars" on a mountain, the new folks realize which behaviours it is that marks them as being "outside" this group. Things like stopping out of sight from above, blocking a lip (i.e. "jump"), lining up across a slope, etc - these things are frowned on by knowledgeable, experienced, and just plain good riders, and they want to be part of that group.

I don't think that I've ever seen the behaviours being complained about (whether in skiers or boarders) displayed by folks who get out there 30+ days a year, but I see it all the time in the folks (young, old, skiers, boarders, male, female, rich, poor, etc) who get out there 5 or 6 days a year. Which tells me that correct behaviour really is a learned behaviour - and it seems to be learned by more experience in a shorter amount of time (i.e. someone who rides 100 days across 20 years, at a rate of 4-6 days a year probalby won't learn it unless they get a good bit instruction that they actually listen too, whereas someone who rides 25 days in a single year will probably have "gotten it" by the end of that single year).

J

Could not agree with your more. I was actually going to say "middle aged MIDWESTERNERS" but I have known a bunch of relocated midwesterners that have become solid, dedicated skiers, so I left that part out. I guess you could say they aren't midwesterners any more.

I might catch some flack for this, but I have seen one kind of skier, that skis a fair amount, still stop on top of lips, etc, and that is instructors. They ussually don't stop in unsafe areas like blind spots, but most instructors seem to be clueless as to whether they are standing on top of a takeoff, or traversing across someones landing, etc. It comes down to, if you don't like to jump off things, then you just don't think about terrain in terms of jumping or anything like that.
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
...

I might catch some flack for this, but I have seen one kind of skier, that skis a fair amount, still stop on top of lips, etc, and that is instructors. They ussually don't stop in unsafe areas like blind spots, but most instructors seem to be clueless as to whether they are standing on top of a takeoff, or traversing across someones landing, etc. It comes down to, if you don't like to jump off things, then you just don't think about terrain in terms of jumping or anything like that.
ya think?
Quote:
edit what I said
with or without classes? Yeah, I'll usually stop on the lip with a class so they can all catch up and not get lost from the rest of the class. Skiing and they're not with a class - wussies!
what I meant to say
with or without classes? Yeah, I'll usually stop on the lip with a class so they can all catch up and not get lost from the rest of the class. Sliding down the hill and they're not with a class - wussies!
post #53 of 58
Reading through this thread reminded me of one of my favorite Bob Barnes-ism's

Quote:
if you hit somebody on a trail, then you were either out of control, or you hit them on purpose.
i.e., if you were in control, why didn't you avoid the collision? If you couldn't avoid the collision, it's time to re-evaluate just how "in control" you really were. Something to think about.
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
Reading through this thread reminded me of one of my favorite Bob Barnes-ism's



i.e., if you were in control, why didn't you avoid the collision? If you couldn't avoid the collision, it's time to re-evaluate just how "in control" you really were. Something to think about.
Similar to the MV infraction "failure to maintain a safe distance".
post #55 of 58
More people sitting on the hill equals less people ahead of you in the liftline. Just be happy.
post #56 of 58
Now thats a good one I'm going to steal!
post #57 of 58
I wonder if it's the same people sitting on the trail that stop traffic by jaywalking and just saunter along because they think you aren't going to run them over. A couple of them die every year, not enough though.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
I wonder if it's the same people sitting on the trail that stop traffic by jaywalking and just saunter along because they think you aren't going to run them over. A couple of them die every year, not enough though.
Almost certainly the same people
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