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Instep Bootfitting

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I recently purchased Atomic Race-Tech CS boots, which fit my heel and forefoot very well. However, I think the instep height may be a little low. According to the Ski buyers guide, which is, of course, the absolute authority on bootfitting : , there is almost nothing that can be done to raise the instep of a boot. The salesmen/bootfitters at my local ski shop claimed that the instep could be punched out or the bootboard ground to accomodate my instep. Is this true, or were they just trying to make a buck (or 500)?

So, my question is: is "instep bootfitting" possible, or will I be better off returning the boots and buying a boot with a higher instep? If the latter is the case, which race boots have the greatest instep volumes?
post #2 of 17
A little bit is alot! You can probably make the neccesary mods to get that boot to fit. sanding down the footboard is the easiest method. Beware that sanding the footboard can also change your ramp angle so be careful to consider at the same time if you need to increase, decrease, or leave the same before starting.

b
post #3 of 17
Nordica Dobermanns have a high instep and were definitely higher than last year's RT CS's.

However, there was still a little bit of pressure on the instep which Bergeron alleviated by grinding down the liner tongues right at the pressure points.

I have a very high instep and I found the CS's to be better than most of the boots I tried on, but not as good as the Dobies.
post #4 of 17
The RT CS is lower over the instep. I tried it on and althought it was one size too big i could feel that it had a lower instep. You don't have to punch the instep, all you have to do is lower the bootboard. Grinding the boot is easy but it changes the boot's ramp angle. If you lower the bootboard, the ramp angle will be lower and your ankle will be flexed.

IF the boot fits (assuming you got the correct size) and you like the forward lean (which is quire a bit) i'd say grind the boot board.

The Nordica Dobermanns have a higher instep. The key here is downsizing because race and semi-race boots work best with less than 1 finger behind the heel (shell fit).

The CS has a wonderful elastic flex and a good liner which is relatively thin. The plastic compound is different than the Nordica. There are some minor differences between them but they are perceptible.
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI View Post
Nordica Dobermanns have a high instep and were definitely higher than last year's RT CS's.

However, there was still a little bit of pressure on the instep which Bergeron alleviated by grinding down the liner tongues right at the pressure points.

I have a very high instep and I found the CS's to be better than most of the boots I tried on, but not as good as the Dobies.

If you tried the CS in the correct size and it worked with your very high instep, all i can say is that Bergeron is a genius!

IMO both the RT Ti and CS have a lower instep in the correct size and the bootboard probably needs a lot of grinding to accomodate high insteps. Again, in the correct size because if it is the wrong size the instep will be higher and will affect many other things.

You are right about the Dobie's instep. It is higher than the Atomic's instep but IMO in the correct size it will work for all but the lowest insteps and if you have a foot bed your instep will be closer to the shell and you will buckle the lower buckles first or second buckle.
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw View Post
If you tried the CS in the correct size and it worked with your very high instep, all i can say is that Bergeron is a genius!

IMO both the RT Ti and CS have a lower instep in the correct size and the bootboard probably needs a lot of grinding to accomodate high insteps. Again, in the correct size because if it is the wrong size the instep will be higher and will affect many other things.

You are right about the Dobie's instep. It is higher than the Atomic's instep but IMO in the correct size it will work for all but the lowest insteps and if you have a foot bed your instep will be closer to the shell and you will buckle the lower buckles first or second buckle.
Bergeron is a genius, but he fit me into the Dobermanns and not the Atomics. When I was trying boots the Atomics were the correct size (I couldn't get my feet into the next smaller size shell) and for whatever reason, the instep was not all that painful as compared to other boots (Dobies were definitely better). My instep is such that it hurts in all boots except for the highest volume ones.

For the Dobies, what we ended up doing is cutting out the plastic & foam in the tongue (started grinding first) to eliminate the hot spot.
post #7 of 17
Grinding down the tongue over a high instep is what I did to fix that problem also. I first cut out some padding on the inside of the tongue, but then went further and actually began taking off plastic material on the outside of the tongue. A little bit goes a long way so becareful not to remove too much too soon. gordo
post #8 of 17
can you thin the footbed a bit too?

is your heel all the way back in the boot. If you heel is forward you instep will be to far forward too. (and feel like the instep is too low)
post #9 of 17

Instep

Can anyone give detail on exactly how to do grind and foam removal on tongue. I really have this problem also and would like to work on my boots. the closest good bootfitter is 6 hours drive away. HELP
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post
Can anyone give detail on exactly how to do grind and foam removal on tongue. I really have this problem also and would like to work on my boots. the closest good bootfitter is 6 hours drive away. HELP
Foam removal can be done using the procedures I was taught to use when installing custom instep pads permanently in a boot tongue.

This procedure leaves the fabric in place on the inside of the boot tongue, which I think is a plus. I start with a seam ripper down by where the tongue is attached to the liner and start removing the stitching. As soon as you start you should take some super glue and glue the stitching where you started so that it won't continue to unravel in the other direction. rip the stitching up a little higher than the area that you want to remove or reduce. Then you super glue the stitching where you stopped removing it so it won't unravel above this point. This will allow you access inside the tongue and you can cut the foam straight across at the upper and lower point and remove it. You will probably be surprised how cheap the foam is. It is like cheap rebond carpet pad. With the foam out, you can cut away at it to reduce the thickness or replace it with something else that is molded to your instep, or something that is just thinner. When you put it back into the tongue it will stay in place, because it is held in place by the inside fabric. It really will stay in place, I know from personal experience.

Removing it entirely will allow you to easily creep up on how much is needed. Later, RicB.
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post
Can anyone give detail on exactly how to do grind and foam removal on tongue. I really have this problem also and would like to work on my boots. the closest good bootfitter is 6 hours drive away. HELP
Pete- See my PM regarding this, but what Bergeron did for me was he located the pressure point and removed a 3/4" circle of hard plastic from the liner tongue with an exacto knife. He left the foam in place.

I removed a little more myself later.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI View Post
Pete- See my PM regarding this, but what Bergeron did for me was he located the pressure point and removed a 3/4" circle of hard plastic from the liner tongue with an exacto knife. He left the foam in place.

I removed a little more myself later.
You can also use a dremel tool and grind it away a little bit at a time.
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quick update: I tried on two more boots today, so I've now squeezed my feet into Salomon, Nordica, Tecnica, Lange, Fischer, and Atomic race boots. Other than the instep fit, the Atomic fits my foot better than the others, so I think I'll be keeping them. Thanks for the advice, and let the bootfitting begin! :
post #14 of 17
And if you have it out of the boot liner and in your hand you can simply whittle it away carefully with a razor knife and had sand it if nessasssary. Slipping it in and out of th3 tongue as needed. Keeping the fabric on the inside is a big plush in my book. Later, RicB.
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpSKI View Post
...removed a 3/4" circle of hard plastic from the liner tongue with an exacto knife. He left the foam in place. I removed a little more myself later.
All good and proper techniques. But becareful how much hard plastic you remove. If too much is removed, the tongue can break in half at that point, and then all that holds it together is the foam and fabric. You can still ski in the boot, but eventually pulling on the tongue in its weakened condition will tear the fabric. Ask me how I know this. ;-) gordo
post #16 of 17

Instep Boot Fitting

Thanks Everyone, great ideas that I'm sure will work. Epic is really a great site. thanks Gordo, Terpski and RicB especially. Pete
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtBrighton247 View Post
Quick update: I tried on two more boots today, so I've now squeezed my feet into Salomon, Nordica, Tecnica, Lange, Fischer, and Atomic race boots. Other than the instep fit, the Atomic fits my foot better than the others, so I think I'll be keeping them. Thanks for the advice, and let the bootfitting begin! :
Same with me -- Atomic boots (NOT the wide ones) fit the best, except for that instep. My boot guy did the same as referenced above, cut out some plastic from the tongue where the pressure point is (was). Works great.

My right instep still hurts like a &#*$^!# when I take the boot off, but when it's on, it's perfect.
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