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Back Country Skiing

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
This is an important subject so I thought I would start a separate thread. Be very careful out there! I'm sure all of your fellow bears want you on the board (when you're not skiing) not to mention your families and friends.

Tagging onto Maggot's post in another thread, here is a link just posted at TGR by the survivor of an avie yesterday in Utah. He is an experienced b/c'er and photographer who was with a couple of friends yesterday when the slope above them slid. He was buried for 15 minutes but was rescued by his very knowledgable and experienced b/c partners. He was very lucky and owes it to the knowledge and experience of his group. Even with all that, they had wandered into an area that they admit they shouldn't have been. The telltale signs were there but they pushed it. Backcountry activities are dangerous and often times, unforgiving. This guy was given a serious warning this time. He's one of the lucky ones.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=67518

Here is another link which is the unfolding of the whole event yesterday. Sobering stuff.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=67422
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post #2 of 11
IMO, backcountry training doesn't stop people from taking risks. Just helps them get out alive when they do get in big trouble.
post #3 of 11
Good on you for posting this man.

Avy awareness seems to be a pretty strong theme at TGR. Most TRs at least have a sentence or two talking about evaluation of the conditions. I know Epic is a bit more of the on piste crowd, but it never hurts just to make sure people hear the phrases and terminology on a regular basis, who knows, some lurker might even read something that would make them think twice the next time they want to duck under a rope alone.

Like I've said before, I'm fairly new to the BC, but I still try to ALWAYS be thinking about where I am, and what is above/below me, etc, even if I'm just skiing something "mellow" or "safe".
post #4 of 11
Route selection.

It will save your life. Nothing else even comes close. All this talk about avy beacons and locator training saving your life is IMO barking up the wrong tree. Yes, the above Maggot got out via an live extraction (fortunately), but that is the exception, not the rule. Think about how driver's ed courses are taught. How much emphasis is put into extracting yourself from a car wreck? None. All the emphasis is on avoidance in the 1st place.

Powdr
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by blac_vi View Post
IMO, backcountry training doesn't stop people from taking risks. Just helps them get out alive when they do get in big trouble.
IMO (and IME), knowledgable, well-trained backcountry skiers are much better at avoiding risks (ie. they take fewer risks) because they have better terrain-reading skills, better snow analysis skills, and much better overall conciousness of what's dangerous.

'Backcountry training' isn't just about self-rescue, it's about recognizing and mitigating hazards. At least it is if you get good backcountry training.
post #6 of 11
Here's a very sobering first person account of a death from a year ago.

A couple other reasons to avoid the risk, trauma and asphyxiation aside, if buried more than 1/2 hr, the chances of survival drop dramatically. It is very easy to burn up this little time when in panic mode trying to find someone or someone finding you. Even if you think you know where the person is buried, without a beacon and knowledge you can miss finding them way to easily. Also true with a beacon. During one SAR training exercise last year, with an experienced probing line of 20 people or so, probing in about a 16" grid, the dummy was missed on two passes, eating up easily 20 minutes. Imagine if it's one or two inexperience and panicking people trying to locate a friend in a big pile of avalanche debris with no real point of reference.......and then there is the time to dig out the victim from whatever depth they are buried.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post
IMO (and IME), knowledgable, well-trained backcountry skiers are much better at avoiding risks (ie. they take fewer risks) because they have better terrain-reading skills, better snow analysis skills, and much better overall conciousness of what's dangerous.

'Backcountry training' isn't just about self-rescue, it's about recognizing and mitigating hazards. At least it is if you get good backcountry training.
EXACTLY!

Also the more time that you spend in the backcountry the better fealing that you devlope for the snow pack and you are able to make better informed and educated guess. However it is IMPOSSIBLE to always know EXACTLY how the snow pack is going to respond and the subtle variations that can occure in just a few short feet, so there is ALWAYS going to be some element of risk.
post #8 of 11
My view is if you don't have the training and/or you are not with a really experienced group of bc skiers, don't go. And definitely do not go if you do not have a beacon, shovel, and probe.

Mike
post #9 of 11
Something to keep in mind:

The larger the group of people you are backcountry skiing with the safer you feel, but the more likely you are to start an avalanche.
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
My view is if you don't have the training and/or you are not with a really experienced group of bc skiers, don't go. And definitely do not go if you do not have a beacon, shovel, and probe.

Mike
Unless you are in lake country, in which case never go without self-rescue ice picks. They are the BWCA equivalent of an avvy beacon.

Ski safer,
Hans
post #11 of 11
I was in an avalanche a few years ago. I wrote this about it:


Avalanche near Saint Foix.


“Look out” someone shouted, but before I could turn I was struck from behind by what I assumed was a very heavy skier, who knocked me flat and pinned me face down with all his weight as we slid uncontrollably down the slope. Then I realized I was in an avalanche.

I had arrived in Val d’Isere that morning to join the second week of an off-piste skiing holiday. The others had been skiing for a week but I had come by overnight ski-train ahead of the new influx.
It hadn’t snowed for a while and the off-piste was skied-out; so one of guides had offered to lead a day tour from Saint Foix. It’s not much skied there and has some good off-piste, so I decided to go.
We were already a large group of seven, but the 3 leaders were having their day off and wanted to go as well. They decided to follow, lagging a little behind so as not to count as part of the group.

We were driven by mini-bus down to Saint Foix, a small resort between Bourg St. Maurice and Val d’Isere. It was a fine morning, clear and sunny with crisp snow.
After several lifts we arrived at the top of the ski area and started off straight ahead on a long traverse, leaving the lifts and pistes behind.
After a mile or so we stopped and took off our skis, and applied skins to our ski bases with varying degrees of skill. We stripped off our jackets and started a long diagonal up the mountain.
We climbed steadily for about an hour and a half, passing left through what had seemed a coll into a flattish area between peaks, perhaps a small summer lake, and finally, refusing the obvious coll ahead, climbed a bit further up to the Coll d’Argentiere.

We rested and took off our skins. The start would be quite tricky.
Although generally the snow was well settled, the start was shaded and still soft. There was a steep gully that any snow-slide would take us into so we went one at a time to minimise the stress on the slope.
Collecting around the corner, after a short steep section we surveyed a magnificent, wide, even slope, stretching untracked for about half a mile. The snow here was settled and not steep. Perhaps 35º at the start but reducing to a steady 30º after that.
“OK”, the guide told us, “you can just ski as you like now”.
He started down and we all followed in rapid succession.
I was third in the bunch and concentrating on my turns when I heard someone shout “Look out”.
Perhaps if I didn’t have a tinnitus I might have had a couple of seconds warning, but it wouldn’t have made much difference. The avalanche struck me from behind and hurled me onto my face, pinning me there as I was propelled on what must have been the forward edge of the snow mass, rapidly down the slope, my arms spread in front of me as I tried to keep my face above a cloud of snow, sliding down and down as though we would never stop, totally unable to make any choices, just being carried helplessly till the pounding eased and I found myself lying stationary in a heap of tumbled chunks of snow, totally winded.
I rolled half onto my side and realised I wasn’t buried. I tried to take a gulp of air but I couldn’t. I had inhaled snow and my mouth and throat were clogged with it. I spat and managed to cough up a chunk of the snow. I could just draw in a little stream of air but I wanted to gasp it in. Keep calm I told myself, you won’t suffocate. Just wait and the rest will melt.
All I could do was half sit , half lie, for several minutes unable to respond to the shouts behind me and someone calling my name.
Slowly my airway cleared and I recovered from my battering. Eventually I was able to look around.
I was in a wilderness of lumped and tumbled snow, about 30 yards from the final front edge. Behind me broad trail of debris led up and up to distant figures. I had been carried about 300yards.

It turned out the last person of our main group had set it off on the rest of us. He must have skied some critical bit that we hadn’t.
The 3 group leaders following us had seen him ride a raft of crust for a few seconds before falling into the tumbling snow.
He and the guide ended up below me and the others deposited at various points in the rubble above.
Amazingly the only one needing to be dug out a little was the guide. He was swearing steadily (it was his first avalanche too, as a guide anyway).
Other than a couple of slight strains and lots of bruises we were all miraculously unhurt.
The steady, gradually easing slope had prevented the snow piling up and had simply let it run out of energy.
One of the women was crying in shocked reaction.

Initially we seven found we had lost all our equipment, but as people picked their way down the slope they collected about half the skis and sticks, and even a few hats and goggles. I was lucky, I finally had both skis and a very bent stick and borrowed another.
We were many miles from the bottom and in a different valley from the pistes. We had to call a helicopter to take those without skis home.

Finally it arrived and the others climbed in as the guide and the leaders and I, and one other, skied off to complete the run.

Later that week we made three lines in the local paper. Some English skiers in an avalanche at Col d’Argentiere. No one hurt.
Nothing important.
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