Originally Posted by ssh
You probably see my comments as defensive, although I hope not. I couldn't care less about PSIA v racing v whatever. What bothers me is criticisms leveled that are inaccurate and unsupported, but stated as fact. That is what has happened in this thread: claims that PSIA is this, PSIA skiers are that, and PSIA teaches this. When countered with facts such as writings of the leaders of the PSIA, the responses are, "It doesn't matter what they're saying, it's wrong."
The frustration arises because the conversation becomes like catching jello! What is the complaint? What is wrong? Why is it wrong and how can it be righted?
I understand your frustrations Steve. We are all frustrated in one way or another when we try to communicate something and nobody gets it. Certainly I am guilty at times of not always remembering to say "IMHO" or "This is only my opinion", etc.. It starts to get a little redundant saying that to make sure there will not be a negative reaction at the other end. I see that some comments by myself or others have fired you up..... wasn't meant to..
But I agree with others, let's get back to the skiing....presume "IMHO" every other sentence below please.
You asked about my definition of counter.BorntoSki's definition of Counter
First the purpose
: Counter lines up the large muscle groups so that you will more effectively be able to angulate and maintain edge angles. LeMaster also defines it this way. From reading in the supporters area I've also come to understand that counter helps to evert (pronate) the outside ankle into a stronger and locked in edge. (since reading that article I've also seen it talked about in other places). For this reason, counter is important from very early in the turn, not simply at the end of the turn. In fact counter (as an intent) is in play during the meat of the turn, not during the transition. I'm going to define "the meat of the turn" to mean between 2:00 and 4:00(opinions may vary).
As to how
to counter there are many theories about how to do it. Gait mechanics, skiing with a strong inside, leading with the inside hip, leading with the inside ski, opening the gate, rotating the femur in the hip socket, everting the ankle to cause a kinetic reaction which will induce counter, etc...BornToSki's definition of Anticipation
Anticipation as defined by Rusty above is what we have both said..Its purpose
is to wind up the muscles and ligaments in the body near the end of a turn so that it can unwind, causing desirable and intentional pivoting of the skis at the very beginning of the next turn. When anticipation is being used it shows up just before and during the transition, not during the meat of the turn I defined above.
for anticipation includes things such as telling skiers to face down the fall line, perhaps skiing into counter, etc..
If I understand what Rusty said above, the PSIA approach to obtain counter is to ski into it. That does not state the purpose, only the how. In fact the definitions Rusty gave seem to infer that there is really no separate concept of counter as something separate from anticipation. They are really talking about anticipation the whole time and the word counter is only being used to describe the position the body is in while it is anticipating near the end of the turn. Skiers are taught to ski into this position. What you are really meaning to say is "ski into anticipation".
Thus, in my view PSIA has absolutely no concept of counter whatsoever during the meat of the turn. They are teaching anticipation and using the name counter to help explain it. There is a brief mention by Rusty of counter-rotation, but no explanation of purpose.
Since you referenced Lito's book on another thread, I will also add that he goes into great discussion about these two concepts and what I am saying now should agree with what he has said in his books.