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Binding Setting? Confusion??

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Last week a friend of mine and I spent 3 days demoing different skis. As part of the initial setup we worked with the shop owner, and he was happy to show us how to adjust the bindings so that we could swap different lengths of the same ski back and forth ...albeit with the understanding that any adjustments made after leaving the shop were our responsibility and all his settings duly recorded.

However, when it came to setting the DIN we were quite surprised that I came out an 8 and my friend came out 8.5, so he brings out a chart and shows us how to find the correct setting. Thru the course of the week we end up in retail shop talking with another owner concerning bindings, and he quickly deduces that I'm an 8 and my friend is an 8.5 by looking at us, and starts showing us the different models in the range we want. When we queried on how you determine DIN, he pulls out the same chart and proceeds to repeat the explanation we heard before.

At the end of the third day I purchased skis (Bandit X) & Look P12 bindings (that would put me squarely in the middle of the 4-12 range) and they mounted them up for my retrieval later that night. So, I pick the skis up and find they're set at 6.5? When I questioned, it was explained that they utilize a computer that determines the DIN for a specific binding make/model based on the user information entered ....they showed me the input data and it matched ME!

Seems like a difference of 1.5 might make the difference between a release or a torn whatever. Took the skis back to the room, put on boots, crawled in the bindings and released out of the toe and heals several times and they did not feel overly easy to get out of. I left them where they were to go skiing, expecting to employ the screwdriver after prerelease, but they never let loose early .....so, I've left 'em alone.

So which is right? Can there be this wide a variance? I would have expected the demo center to utilize the most conservative setting of all. If I'd have blown out my knee on the setting of 8 would I have the right to be a bit upset if I later found out it should have been 6.5?

My specs: 145#, 5'6", size 7.5 shoe, Type III
Friend:185#, 6', size 10.5 shoe, Type III
post #2 of 17
I'm 5'10" 160lbs, boot sole 304mm, Type III.

Looking at the chart on Terry Morse's site it gives the DIN (7.5) that every ski shop always tells me is correct. I don't understand why you would get 8 DIN, given that you are lighter than me, and probably a slightly shorter boot sole.
post #3 of 17
Being a racer i think that DIN is highly over rated and becomes too much of a concern for skiers. Skiers are often too concerned about binding releases, and lose sight of their skiing. Of course shops have to follow the scale for liability issues. If an injury occurrs the user is quick to blame the binding, not their own skiing that could have possibly caused the injury. Also shops will not raise you DIN in certain bindings. If the DIN only goes to 12 they will not riase it as high as they would if your DIN went to 14 or 18, simply because they are supposed to be skied in the middle range. The bindings are still safe out of the middle range but they are not reccommended to be skied at either extreme. I would stay at 6.5 unless you are doing very aggressive skiing. If you are and you feel the need to raise it, then go up to 7. If you are coming out at this point then go up another half step and see how that works. You may still come out under extreme conditions which is not always a bad thing, you want to know they will come off your feet without hurting you. On new years day i came out of a pair of my SLX's without falling (set at 8.5). The ski hit a divot in the snow and blew off my foot. It came off so smooth i didnt even know i had lost it until half way through my next turn (it came off in transition). I only weigh 150lb, and am 5'7". My GS skis are set only at 8, and i can feel those starting to come off sometimes when the courses get rough, so those will probly be going up to 9. If you work on your own, keep your DIN as low as possible. When the time comes you will want them to come off.
Later
GREG
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by skieast:
I'm 5'10" 160lbs, boot sole 304mm, Type III.

Looking at the chart on Terry Morse's site it gives the DIN (7.5) that every ski shop always tells me is correct. I don't understand why you would get 8 DIN, given that you are lighter than me, and probably a slightly shorter boot sole.
Thanks for the link to the chart. Seems to match where I ended up.
post #5 of 17
I think DIN is way overrated. I got my bindings set when I bought my boots at the beginning of the season, and I feel that I've progressed quite a bit since then, and they never prerelease. I ski steep moguls and do quite a bit of jumping and I've never had a problem.
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by HeluvaSkier:
Being a racer i think that DIN is highly over rated and becomes too much of a concern for skiers. Skiers are often too concerned about binding releases, and lose sight of their skiing. Of course shops have to follow the scale for liability issues. If an injury occurrs the user is quick to blame the binding, not their own skiing that could have possibly caused the injury. Also shops will not raise you DIN in certain bindings. If the DIN only goes to 12 they will not riase it as high as they would if your DIN went to 14 or 18, simply because they are supposed to be skied in the middle range. The bindings are still safe out of the middle range but they are not reccommended to be skied at either extreme. I would stay at 6.5 unless you are doing very aggressive skiing. If you are and you feel the need to raise it, then go up to 7. If you are coming out at this point then go up another half step and see how that works. You may still come out under extreme conditions which is not always a bad thing, you want to know they will come off your feet without hurting you. On new years day i came out of a pair of my SLX's without falling (set at 8.5). The ski hit a divot in the snow and blew off my foot. It came off so smooth i didnt even know i had lost it until half way through my next turn (it came off in transition). I only weigh 150lb, and am 5'7". My GS skis are set only at 8, and i can feel those starting to come off sometimes when the courses get rough, so those will probly be going up to 9. If you work on your own, keep your DIN as low as possible. When the time comes you will want them to come off.
Later
GREG
HeluvaSkier:

Nope...not a bit concerned about binding release when I'm skiing, and I'm not the sort to fault others or equipment for my falls - I earn them! In the past I have always left my bindings as they are from the shop after mounting, then adjust them upward in tension by small adjustments when they come off earlier than I would like .... this is typically a feeling out process with the new equipment as I push it harder and harder. I've had many experiences like you've described above when the terrain gets steeper or more difficult and simply seek to find the setting that releases when it should, but not before. My intrigue was in the variances I noted between the settings from different sources, as I know the shops will setup conservatively and I have to find my own 'right' setting.

Thank you for sharing your experience!
post #7 of 17
Also you need to remember that a slow twisting fall will not drive as much energy into the binding as a fast fall. So even though a binding releases under agressive skiing in bumps it can still hang up when you are cruising through that slow zone at those ever so slow speeds and catch an edge. This is probably where a lot of the tears, strained knees and pulled muscles come from. Binding technology keeps getting better and better but is still no match for stupid ego's that tell people that because they are progressing, that they want that number bigger.
post #8 of 17
Christ...

I only buy salomon race stock (9-16 or 11-17 din) bindings now....and I usually freeski them on a 13 Din. My recommended din is 8 - which is waaaaaay too low, I pre-release all over the place. I'm 6'1" and 180 lb. Even at demo days, I request a 11 din on the demo bindings that go up to 12.

No, my leg doesn't snap off if I crash. Also, I never crash because my ski pops off!!!

Kevin

[ January 08, 2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Red Sled ]
post #9 of 17
I can back DCHAN up on that one. In my younger skier days, hope, ego, and aggressiveness drove my DIN up and as a result, I sprained my knee in a fall that would have probably been released upon if I had kept my DIN down at a more moderate level (high speed, weird landing angle, twisting slide-out). When I was progressing, I wanted to ski the steepest stuff (I thought) I could handle and I cranked it up a full two numbers accordingly, and now that I can ski the stuff I had dreamed of competently, it's no small surprise to me that my DIN is the same as it was when I was cruising the blue groomers, without ever falling victim to a pre-release. When dealing with DIN's, my advice is keep 'em low!
post #10 of 17
I'm 6ft, 180lb, and have mine set at 8. This is higher than the chart would say for me, but not by too much.
Because I am not a racer, or just sticking to one snow condition, I don't want to tighten them too much. I'd rather pop a binding than a knee!
I can understand why racers would want to lock themselves in, or if you're sticking to one type of snow that is very predictable, but if you're like me, and enjoy playing on the mountain without trying to be the fastest or the biggest, then I'd say the chart is a good place to start.
Then again, I wonder how many who ignore the chart also like going for considerably longer skis than most would recommend?

(just stirring the ego pot)

S
post #11 of 17
people can deny this all they want, until they're bluefaced and the cows are heading home, and it won't change the simple truth...

if you "crank 'em up" and you aren't either a top-flight racer or extremely fat, all you're doing is a silly little dance where you stroke your ego with a DIN number.

that little dance is so childish that it doesn't merit positive comment.

Ski 'em as LOW as you can. I ski mine at 0.5 to 1.0 full DIN lower than the chart says.

Modern bindings have so much elasticity that it's silly to believe you need to go above the DIN chart's recommendations.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
All,

Thanks for the input. I concur with staying with the lowest setting that works.
post #13 of 17
Quote:

Then again, I wonder how many who ignore the chart also like going for considerably longer skis than most would recommend?

--------

people can deny this all they want, until they're bluefaced and the cows are heading home, and it won't change the simple truth...

if you "crank 'em up" and you aren't either a top-flight racer or extremely fat, all you're doing is a silly little dance where you stroke your ego with a DIN number.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeee......

I'm 100% sure at this point that I'm much younger, heavier, stronger and 20x more agressive than Gonzo or Fox hat.

I like my 13 din because I pre-release a little too often at anything lower, when skiing agressively. That would be "the lowest setting that works". I haven't raced since high school, but I recall most of the high school racers (top flight?) cranking their din's quite a bit.

I like my longer skis because I can actually ski fast on them. 180 cm freeskiing skis are a joke (to me).

These are certainly not revelations, folks.

Kevin

[ January 08, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Red Sled ]
post #14 of 17
our hero has arrived, ladies and gentlemen. be sure to get his autograph before he leaves.

: [img]redface.gif[/img] : [img]redface.gif[/img]
post #15 of 17
Now I'm your hero? I'm so flattered!

Kevin
post #16 of 17
Does anyone else remember the thread here a year back about people who claimed shorter skis were useless? I seem to remember comments about taking lessons on new skis to learn how to use them properly.

-----------------------------------------------------

With my bindings set at 8, I haven't pre-released. Whether I've been dropping into bowls, taking small jumps, going faster than normal with friends, or whatever, I don't pre-release, but I've come out when I've fallen badly.

Red, I'm glad to hear you're a more aggressive skier than me. Most people are more aggressive than me, but that's because I don't believe I own the mountain or have the right to act like I do (liekwise, when I'm driving, etc). I try to look out for others, and not be the centre of attention. I don't want adulation, or an ego boost, I want to laugh and smile, and walk away.

S

P.S. Much as this goes against my very nature, I think gonzo and I just agreed on something.
post #17 of 17
To the original post and the following one.

A huge factor in determining binding's DIN setting is the boot sole length. The smaller the boot, the higher the setting will be. Age also determines the release value. That is why you and your friend will have similar DINs, though your measurements are different.
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