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How many days can you get out of stock liners?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I remember reading that about 100 days is about all you should expect from stock liners. I'm wondering what the "collective" here at Epic considers to be typical liner life before they should be replaced. I'm sure that this probably varies from brand to brand, but I doubt that there are many stock liners that can go beyond 100 days on snow without being totally packed out. This begs the question though - if you still have a great snug fit with a packed out liner is it really necessary to replace it?

My alterior motive in this post is in trying to convince Faisasy that his 120+ days on snow stock Nordie liners have seen better days .
post #2 of 25
Thats what I liked about my Thermoflex liners, just remold them.
post #3 of 25

Define your terms

Great snug fit with a packed out liner smacks of an oxymoron.
post #4 of 25
just put in set #3 on some vibramed Xwaves. 500ish days now, so 200+ per liner
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Great snug fit with a packed out liner smacks of an oxymoron.
You know, you have a point there. How would you still have a snug fit with a packed out liner (assuming that the everything was fit properly to begin with)? Maybe if you moved an older liner to a smaller shell size, but that's probably an incredibly rare occurrence.
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
I remember reading that about 100 days is about all you should expect from stock liners. I'm wondering what the "collective" here at Epic considers to be typical liner life before they should be replaced. I'm sure that this probably varies from brand to brand, but I doubt that there are many stock liners that can go beyond 100 days on snow without being totally packed out. This begs the question though - if you still have a great snug fit with a packed out liner is it really necessary to replace it?

My alterior motive in this post is in trying to convince Faisasy that his 120+ days on snow stock Nordie liners have seen better days .
About 100 days is my usual pack out, but then I take up the excess volume, and am good for another 100 days. Unfortunately, without the cushion of a fresh liner, those second 100 days aren't quite as comfortable.
post #7 of 25
Just got my new stock liners"last yrs" for my kryptons....day 1 will be saturday...I will post the blow by blow break down on a ski day by ski day basis:.....should make a good read...maybe it could have its own forum or at least a sticky.

Pats boot breakdown forum :
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
You know, you have a point there. How would you still have a snug fit with a packed out liner (assuming that the everything was fit properly to begin with)? Maybe if you moved an older liner to a smaller shell size, but that's probably an incredibly rare occurrence.

Thats the point, a boot should not fit "right" when you first get it. Find out whatever feels comfortable in the shop, brand new, then go one or two sizes down.

It only takes about 20 days to break in a liner (i think that terminolgy makes more sense than "packed out"), and then you have a liner that will fit properly for 150-200 days (to answer your question). Makes a lot more sense than having a liner that will feel great for 20 days, then way to big after that.

"Proper" fit right off the bat IS too small.
post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
Thats the point, a boot should not fit "right" when you first get it. Find out whatever feels comfortable in the shop, brand new, then go one or two sizes down.

It only takes about 20 days to break in a liner (i think that terminolgy makes more sense than "packed out"), and then you have a liner that will fit properly for 150-200 days (to answer your question). Makes a lot more sense than having a liner that will feel great for 20 days, then way to big after that.

"Proper" fit right off the bat IS too small.
I'm glad you pointed that out - that's also kind of my "hidden agenda" here - to show that most stock liners are almost worthless and defeat the purpose of the ski boot. It seems absolutely crazy to me that most skiers have to suffer through an overly tight fit for the first few uses (whether that takes 3 days or 20) just to get the liners "acceptable". Then you keep skiing them while realizing that every time you use your boots your fit is actually continually changing (actually getting looser) as the liner continues to pack out and break down. Personally that's why I've skied in Thermoflex type liners (and now ZipFit) because I hate going through the pack out process.

I want manufacturers to start selling shells without liners and then come out with their own lines of liners that aren't built to sell boots in the shops, but are built to perform most efficiently at what they're supposed to do - support and control the foot. I have to admit that many of the stock liners have become much better over the past few years, but I think the manufacturers still cater to the skier that walks into the shop looking for the "comfy" feeling boot.

P.S. My original question was for discussion purposes and to get some real-world experiences on the table to support my assumption that Faisasy should be considering new liners. I'm well versed in how to get a properly sized boot.
post #10 of 25
Lange Banshees 1973-1986, maybe 700 days. Bolt plates to the shells as they crack, glue neoprene and carpet to the liners as they wear out.

I retired them when my foot took on perminent deformities.
post #11 of 25
I've been thinking a little bit along those lines as well, mostly prompted by David MacPhail's stuff (and RicB's) in the supporter lounge.

The two roles of the liner are
- thermal insulation
- distributing pressure from hard points of the foot onto the boot shell.

Let's leave that first one aside for the moment.

One other item that does #2 in common, current technology is the bicycle short chamois. How often do you hear of bike chamois packing out?

What I envision is a liner/sock structure with chamois instep and ankle pads where needed and lycra compression and stretch panels around the entirety.
post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
One other item that does #2 in common, current technology is the bicycle short chamois. How often do you hear of bike chamois packing out?

.
They just turn to burlap and are canned. We say "they turned"
post #13 of 25
Days?
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
I'm glad you pointed that out - that's also kind of my "hidden agenda" here - to show that most stock liners are almost worthless and defeat the purpose of the ski boot. It seems absolutely crazy to me that most skiers have to suffer through an overly tight fit for the first few uses (whether that takes 3 days or 20) just to get the liners "acceptable". Then you keep skiing them while realizing that every time you use your boots your fit is actually continually changing (actually getting looser) as the liner continues to pack out and break down. Personally that's why I've skied in Thermoflex type liners (and now ZipFit) because I hate going through the pack out process.
You lucky dog. I mean that. Some of us just can't stand the feel of foam liners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
P.S. My original question was for discussion purposes and to get some real-world experiences on the table to support my assumption that Faisasy should be considering new liners. I'm well versed in how to get a properly sized boot.
Yea, I wasn't so much lecturing at you, as just speaking in general.

ps, the whole struggle with breaking in new liners isn't quite so bad if you just start by putting them on for 10 minutes at a time while you sit on the couch watching tv, then start keeping em on longer. Still not very fun though.
post #15 of 25
Hmmm. got my Atomics at the very start of australian season 2004. Taught that season, and two in the US. fulltime, of course. Not sure how many days that is (oz was June to October, US was December to mid April). Quite a lot. My hard orthotics have worn holes in them (and the big toe area is splitting too) so I'll treat myself to some newies this season. Oh boy oh boy.
post #16 of 25
If you have Solomon boots like me? the custom (my race fit) liners do not seem to pack out much. I have 200+ days on mine and am planning to go this season with the same setup. Very comfy boots (For me) I leave them buckled all day

I did need footbeds.
post #17 of 25
Anybody ever have any success firming up a fit with a packed out liner by duct taping the liner to take up more room in the shell. I've done this a couple of times of the years. Seemed to improve fit a bit.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
Anybody ever have any success firming up a fit with a packed out liner by duct taping the liner to take up more room in the shell. I've done this a couple of times of the years. Seemed to improve fit a bit.
ZipFit makes this funky thing along the same idea: http://www.zipfit.com/pullover.htm
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
Anybody ever have any success firming up a fit with a packed out liner by duct taping the liner to take up more room in the shell. I've done this a couple of times of the years. Seemed to improve fit a bit.
I've always put a spacer under the liner, that takes up the volume sufficiently. 20 years ago, I cut a pizza box to the size of the bootboard and used that until it got wet and disintegrated. Then I would order another pizza and do it again. These days I use Bontex, technology is wonderful.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
...I want manufacturers to start selling shells without liners and then come out with their own lines of liners that aren't built to sell boots in the shops, but are built to perform most efficiently at what they're supposed to do....
I agree with you separating shell and liner provides an interesting best of breed approach busting the current paradigm.

Until then, encouraging is the incorporation of duct tape into this thread discussion yet again solving a problem that would otherwise cause real advancement in new technology.:
post #21 of 25
My boot fitter always ask how many days I have in the boots...then he asks how many of those days were actually skiing. The point being that hanging around the beginner area teaching does not put the same amount of stress/wear and tear as all out skiing.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
ZipFit makes this funky thing along the same idea: http://www.zipfit.com/pullover.htm

have you seen this in the US? price?

I want something like that in my store, but zipfit in Canada doesn't bring it in stock
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
have you seen this in the US? price?

I want something like that in my store, but zipfit in Canada doesn't bring it in stock
I think I saw them at Superior Ski, Snowbird.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
ZipFit makes this funky thing along the same idea: http://www.zipfit.com/pullover.htm
I think that would do an awesome job of eliminating cramping too.

I like to crank my buckles down really tight, because I feel it gives me just that extra bit of control, but I have to unbuckle them every lift ride. This looks like it might distrubute the pressure much more evenly than buckles.
post #25 of 25
My X Wave 10's gave me around 150 when they started getting sloppy. I kept skiing them because I was too busy to get new liners (teaching full time). By around the 200 day mark, the heels had torn out completely...time for new liners It takes me about 2 days of pain to break in new liners for a tight, yet pain free fit. Literally, take a run, take the boots off for a few minutes, repeat the first day.
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