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c of m question

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Say I was wanting to carve a turn to the left. Does the c of m drop to the inside(left) or do you tip your ankles and knees and drop the c of m. i would like to try some more carving this year instead of trying to skid all over the place. I like to carve, but sometimes when I try i find that most of my weight is too far on the inside foot and fall inside the turn. Could someone give me some clarification on how to carve a medium radius turn on a groomer. thanks in advance.
post #2 of 23
You want to move your center of mass FORWARD and into the turn for proper edge engagement. I focus on flexing my new inside ankle (left ankle in left turn) toward the turn at the beginning to start my COM moving forward as well as inside. If I flex my knee, I tend to move more laterally, and then I'm behind the skis.
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
thanks, i will try this when the snow starts flying. thanks again.
post #4 of 23

Cm

Codyblank. Go to the following under technique forum, some really good info. on your question.

Move Core vs. feet
Turning, what comes first
Inside leg
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
I'll do that. Thanks for the suggestion.
post #6 of 23
You can always let that knee ankle hip bend so that it doesn't take the weight. That will give you a bigger edge angle. However if you move your cm too far inside the turn without enough speed for the radius you're skiing you will fall inside. You probably don't want to add more speed if you're falling. To prevent this falling in, you have to angulate, ie. bend at the waist to move your upper body back outside the turn so that your cm isn't too far inside the turn. Also be careful that you are not pushing the tails out, play with distributing your weight more to the front and then back along the whole ski. Notice I said ski, not skis. Let the inside leg collapse and put all your weight on the outside ski and see what happens. It's easier to learn to carve with the outside ski, and then add in the inside ski.
Hope this helps.
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
I will try. I think the angulation may help.
post #8 of 23
Codyblank,,, search "Schlopy drill". This is your answer to learning to create the angulation and balance you're lacking.
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
To properly edge you have to counter-rotate your upper body toward the outside of the turn. And to get the cm foward you have to most likely counter-rotate. Correct?
post #10 of 23
Do not confuse counter with counter-rotate. Counter produces angulation. Counter rotating can make countering easier, but is something else. Counter rotating and rotating refer to a turning of the body about an axis more or less aligned with the spine. Counter rotating to the outside helps because when counter-rotated, leaning forward at the waist angulates you rather than just leaning sideways at the waist. Most folks don't bend too far sideways.
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
So when skiing, my cm should be over my boots and left when turning left and the cm should be right when turning to the right. Correct?
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank View Post
So when skiing, my cm should be over my boots and left when turning left and the cm should be right when turning to the right. Correct?
Yes you are correct. We instructors tend to say that the cm is inclined (leaning) to the "inside" of the turn ( to the right on a right turn; to the left on a left turn) But you've got the concept. May I use it with my students? I like it.

cdnguy
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
The best way to carve is to tip the skis with the ankles and knees,then move the cm in the direction of the turn, all of this while pressuring the ouside ski with a little weight on the inside ski. Is this about right, or am i still missing the technical points of how to carve? thanks
post #14 of 23
Left turn view from the rear: cross-sections of skis look like this...../..../.......
Right turn view from the rear: cross-sections of skis look like this ......\......\
Balance on the outside ski. Try to get as much weight over the outside ski as you can without falling to the outside of the turn. As you go faster you have to move your mass farther inside the turn. That's all there is to it.
post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 
I have previously tried the phantom move and fell way too far to the inside and fell over. I believe now that my weight wasnt fully over my outside ski which caused me to fall.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank View Post
I have previously tried the phantom move and fell way too far to the inside and fell over. I believe now that my weight wasnt fully over my outside ski which caused me to fall.
The probably true. Try traversing across the hill on one foot in both directions and both feet. This might be hard to do on only the uphill foot at first but will get easier over time. If you simply cannot do this at all for any length of time, get your boots looked at because you are probably out of alignment.

On one of these traverses where you are on the uphill foot, tip and keep tipping the downhill foot into the turn. If you can keep your balance on that stance ski, this should pull you into a big carved arc if you have the patience for it. Just ride it out in a big turn on some easy terrain and work up from there.
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
I will look at some of the drills in Anyone Can be An Expert Skier tonight and practice some when the resort opens. I think you may be right about the boots, I think the canting is wrong but that is just the way I look at them. Thanks for the drills.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl View Post
On one of these traverses where you are on the uphill foot, tip and keep tipping the downhill foot into the turn. If you can keep your balance on that stance ski, this should pull you into a big carved arc if you have the patience for it. Just ride it out in a big turn on some easy terrain and work up from there.
Unless you are quite athletic and well equipped, this will go better for your first attempt if you are "traversing" mostly down the fall line on a shallow hill. Gradually make the traverse more and more across the hill.
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyblank View Post
I will look at some of the drills in Anyone Can be An Expert Skier tonight and practice some when the resort opens. I think you may be right about the boots, I think the canting is wrong but that is just the way I look at them. Thanks for the drills.

With your ski boots on, stand on a flat, hard floor. Where do you have to put your feet in relation to eachother and your hips in order for the bottoms of the boots to sit flat on the floor?
post #20 of 23

Flowing COM mess and the quicker picker upper- Arc Tech

Codyblank, Arcing (carving) is as easy as walking. In fact, many of the movements are the same. The modern shape ski promotes/enables this crossover of familiar movement patterns.
You do not need to concern yourself with the location or movements of your COM to be able to ski the way you want. The COM question is a course of study in and of itself and if you are so inclined (pardon the pun) it may be of no harm. BUT, you don't preoccupy yourself with internal dialog concerning your COM while walking, running or playing. So free yourself to enjoy the unique and seriously fun sensations of Arc2arc skiing. How?
There is an article/document in the supporter area called Arc Tech. There is a wealth of info specifically focused on arcing. I suggest (to avoid info overload) you read the intro then read page 2. Go to page: 12, 13, 14, and 15 to look at the Phase Photos. Take those images and the bullets above each photo to connect each phase. BTY, download the PDF it is much easier to deal with when reading.
Arc Tech is a "living document." In other words in its entirety, it still needs work. Don’t let that stop you, it is complete and of great value to anyone looking for the "How and What" of carving/arcing.
I see now that you are not a supporting member, you will not be able to view this work. May I suggest to become one. I did, and I benefit from it every time I log on to Epicski. I am not kidding. In case you are wondering, I profit in no way from this "sales pitch." Bolter
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
i think the only problem with me not understanding is my inside side needs to loosen up. i feel way too stiff in the engagement part of the turn. lots of pressure is still on the inside ski. i have the same problem as the lady in the thread that is pushing off the oustide ski which causes skidding. i have been told i should also keep my weight over the boot tops which helps balance the body and keeps me from falling. i hope this is not just a ramble. i am just trying to get some good opinions from instructors so i dont kill myself and so that i can ski without skidding out every turn. thanks for all the previous posts.
post #22 of 23
Cody,
There are various ways of skiing and teaching carving. I feel that the center of mass needs to be moved to the inside of the new turn to put the skis on edge. Here's an example: http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/20...005-sl-1c.html. Of course, we aren't racing, but every one of us will be a better skier if we adopt the basic techniques the racers use. Giorgio Rocca might be the technically best skier these days.

The best thing to do is to find one style of instruction and stick with that. Here is my preference, also here. Others disagree with this system, but it has helped me more and faster than others.


Ken
post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
thanks very much everyone. i will try all of this when i have time to get on the slopes.
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