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REI messed up my new sticks -- what now? - Page 5

post #121 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by socaltransplant View Post
So do you guys agree with what I'm expecting them to do for me?

1. Replace skis with new
2. Pay for weekend demo
3. Refund mounting fee
If you want my opinion, I think you should get a free remount. No new skis, no free demos, no refund.
post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoWork View Post
There's a very easy way to make yourself heard in these situations. Simply ask for the number of the District Manager, and when you call them make sure you have the number and name of a claim handler in the Better Business Bureau in your area. Tell the RM POLITELY what happened, how much time on the slopes you've missed out on, and how you feel the situation could be resolved to your liking. Let them know that if they are not willing to satisfy you as a customer, you will be lodging a complaint with the BBB. Remember- be as nice to the RM as possible, if he thinks you're a jerk, he may not help you at all. I think a pair of PEs would be even better than troublemakers at a decent price difference, and if you get someone high up enough they won't care about the $. The tech will probably get written up, but who cares. Good luck
Throwing out BBB in the first conversation is a great way to be a jerk. Nothing personal - just sayin'... REI will work with you. It's a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things for them.

The tech probably wouldn't be written up unless they can prove he did something negligent, which is tough to do, especially if everything tested out to spec, and everything on the work ticket was filled out correctly. The skis were used a few days - who knows - maybe there was a defect in the ski??? Probably not, but it's tough to re-create a binding mount.

Long story short, just go in and BE NICE. They are in business and successful because of how they treat their customers. No need to throw out threats right away.
post #123 of 145
At our local Folsom REI, I know the techs and consider them competent in mounting and tuning skis. They actually have one of the larger selections of mounting templates in the area. My observation is that they are trained well, take their time and have gotten everything I asked for right. Not every REI is going to have this quality of tech (this guy has been there at least 3-years).

Best guess, is the tech used a 4.1 mm drill instead of 3.6, and may have tapped the holes. This 1/2 mm diameter difference will be almost impossible to prove or see, and failures are unusual even when this mistake is committed. Even so, you were probably seriously in the back seat to leverage that toe piece out. A remount with helicoils will be fine, but be sure the hole size is checked on the bindings that did not fail too. You're dreaming if you think a new ski will be offered. The inserts will be as good or better than new. I have never seen a ski shop reimburse for loss of use (pay for your rentals), but they should refund your mounting charge. Maybe the shop will issue some store credit for your inconvenience, but REI is more likely to simply refund your money and take back the skis on return.
post #124 of 145

Well.....

Well I went in last night and spoke with the tech first then the manager. The tech took a look and said that it looked like they may have overtightend the screws which pulled the wood out making the mount much less strong on 2 of the 3 screws. The third was done correctly, which is why the entire toe piece didn't come off, just 2 screws pulled out. He also noted that there was 2 types of glue which he thought meant that the tech may have had some problems mounting it. It was all a little confusing to me, so I let that go once they admitted it was their fault.

They don't have any gotama's left in their entire system so they couldn't replace them (everything from all stores was sent to their warehouse so their inventory is a little screwed up now, or so they said). They offered to refund the purchase. Since they are the skis I want and they're somewhat difficult to locate (given my upcoming trip to Utah), we ended up having them "fix" the mount. I believe they were going to plug the holes and redrill, but wasn't completely sure. The tech who was going to do the work seemed very competent and ensured me he'd take good care of the skis. They refunded me $135 for my demo for the weekend and $35 mounting fee.

Was it exactly what I was looking for? No, but I think it worked out okay and, even though I'm usually a pretty good negotiator I was pretty tired from a long day at work and felt that they had a pretty good compromise. They also said that I could keep checking back with them and if a new pair of gotama's showed up in the system they'd swap them for my skis.
post #125 of 145
I'm betting they may have done a helicoil - you don't just "plug and redrill" unless they moved the bindings forward or backward - did they do that? "Two types of glue" - that's interesting. I'm not sure what that is all about.

Anyway, I think you got MORE than a fair deal. I'd walk away with an extra $170 in your pocket and consider this matter closed. They took good care of you.
post #126 of 145
Feel like they were fair too. Thanks for the advice guys. I'm headed to Vegas for the weekend so won't be able to reply.

Anyone at Alta next Friday, Sat, Sun?
post #127 of 145
Would any of you be OK about taking delivery of a new car that the dealer had smashed into a tree? ("Oh, we'll fix it up so you'll never see where the damage was...") It's NOT being anal, or politically incorrect, or insufficiently green or some other buzz concept to demand the same or comparable equipment, mounted correctly, all for not a dime more. They messed up, it's their responsibility to get it right.

FWIW, several folks have reported issues with mounts at REI. Maybe it's time they a) tightened up their training to include employes who have actually touched skis before or b) stopped mounting skis. Plenty of online stores don't mount, and REI's ski selection is mostly online these days.

Note I'm also a loyal member of REI, who would really really hate to lose the, uh, .035 cents (cost/total number of members?) this will yank from my dividend.
post #128 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Would any of you be OK about taking delivery of a new car that the dealer had smashed into a tree?
Well, let's see...

1. If was was on sale (I'm assuming this as it was a late season purchase,

2. They gave me another big discount on it on top of the sale price, and

3. They fixed the problem so that it was not noticeable or defective...

YOU BET I WOULD!! As has been mentioned before, some repairs are as good or better than an original mount. FWIW, I don't consider a car and a pair of skis on the same level... You're hardly making a valid comparison.

Lots of small shops have problems too, but considering the PURE VOLUME of skis REI moves, I think we're talking about a pretty insignificant number here.
post #129 of 145
We don't know why the binding pulled out. We can speculate that it was due to wrong drill bit size, or over torquing the screws... but WE don't know.

Was it the tech at REI? Probably. (but maybe not).

I've seen quite a few Volkl's with bindings pulled out. Is it ALL technician error? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the Chinese manufacturer isn't up to par with the German manufacturer. Maybe the Chinese manufacturer is using a slightly lower grade of material than Volkl specs for their ski (...it's happened before, right?).

Maybe the OP just happened to torque the ski in a way that the binding ripped out of the ski. It happens.

What we DO know is REI covered his 'demo fee', remounted the binding... and appears to be willing to let him ski on the ski now and possibly replace it later.

Seems like they 'Did The Right Thing'.

(they could have just not screwed up the mount, I suppose, but they did alright after the fact, IMO.)
post #130 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Maybe the Chinese manufacturer isn't up to par with the German manufacturer. Maybe the Chinese manufacturer is using a slightly lower grade of material than Volkl specs for their ski (...it's happened before, right?).
:
OH!
:
MY!
:
GOSH!

This is blasphany. How dare you suggest anything even slightly negative about Volkls in this forum.:

Sad thing is that there is probably one or two big plants in China that make all different brands, same people, same quality, probably same raw materials as well. And, the quality probably is not that bad considering...
:
post #131 of 145

Well.. it continues

Looks like it was a quality issue and not the tech's fault. The tech just called me and said he was trying to remount them and kept having the screws just punch right through the core. He said that he actually tried 2 remounts and each was messed up. He basically said that the core was bad and that I'd have to come back in and get a refund. He said the core's were "ash" on the inside. Kinda bumed since it'll be kinda tough to find a new pair of gotama's but on the plus side I ended up getting a free demo for the weekend.

Anyone selling Gotama's? 176cm?
post #132 of 145
send SierraJim a PM..
and if you don't become a supporter when you get the price, you're incorrigible.
post #133 of 145
Thanks for the advice. I contacted him and I became a supporter. How's the weather in LCC? I'll be there in 12 hrs.
post #134 of 145
I thought that might be worthwhile.
post #135 of 145
I ended up picking up Look PX 15's from Jim and bought the gotama's from Christy Sports. Amazing 50% off ($399 and free shipping). I ended up with better bindings and the same skis for $100 less, plus got my demo's paid for at Mammoth. Only problem is that I don't have any skis for this weekend at Alta.

http://store.christysports.com/catal...kl_gotama_skis
post #136 of 145
Just had my new Legend Pros mounted with Axial 2 bindings and noticed that the toe pieces are off-center by about 3mm. Is this a resonable tolerance or will it be an issue?

Also, the boot sole hash mark appears to be slightly forward of the line on the ski - the "A" on the boot (Hot Rod) is actually lined up with the ski's mounting line. Is this what happens when you use the jig's center mark instead of the boot?

Should I make an issue out of this?
post #137 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Sexington View Post
Just had my new Legend Pros mounted with Axial 2 bindings and noticed that the toe pieces are off-center by about 3mm. Is this a resonable tolerance or will it be an issue?

Also, the boot sole hash mark appears to be slightly forward of the line on the ski - the "A" on the boot (Hot Rod) is actually lined up with the ski's mounting line. Is this what happens when you use the jig's center mark instead of the boot?

Should I make an issue out of this?
Sure - you could make an issue of it, but I doubt you'll notice it much. I wouldn't consider Legend Pros a precision ski. They're more of an off-piste ski.

Let the shop know about it. I'd ski them and see if it bothers you. If not, no problem. If it does, at least they're aware of it and can expect to see you if they aren't to your liking.

FWIW, I would use the jig's mark before the boot's. If they're different, you can try to eyball it, but I find using the jig's center mark is more accurate. They may have just set the jig according to the stamped BSL, which can vary, and may have caused the difference.

Bummer on the 3mm - it seems that jigs have more trouble with fat skis for some reason, but again, you may not notice it at all. I've only had one mount end up off-center, and it was on a fat ski. Maybe coincidence, but more often than not when you hear of a mis-mount, it's a ski with a waist over 90mm.
post #138 of 145
Re: the 3mm offset, are you measuring from the metal edges? Don't rely on topsheet graphics or sidewall to make this call. Measuring from the edges correctly is a little harder to do, but it's the only thing that matters.
post #139 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
Re: the 3mm offset, are you measuring from the metal edges? Don't rely on topsheet graphics or sidewall to make this call. Measuring from the edges correctly is a little harder to do, but it's the only thing that matters.

Good point. I was measuring from the sidewall. I'll try measuring from the edges later today. I'm still curious what is considered a resonable +/- tolerance for binding alignment to ski centerline?
post #140 of 145
I don't know what a reasonable number is for on-snow performance, but having done free-hand mounts for a long time, my feeling is that I am well within 1mm tolerance (thickness of pencil marks being the main error source). A jig mount should be at least that good. If it's really 3mm off, I'd be kind of disappointed in the shop. That's almost 1/8", which is a hideous tolerance even by carpentry standards!

I'd be curious how it measure from the edges -- you'll need a caliper or two combination squares to measure that properly (something that can bridge across the ski to accurately mark the centerline).
post #141 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by socaltransplant View Post
I ended up picking up Look PX 15's from Jim and bought the gotama's from Christy Sports. Amazing 50% off ($399 and free shipping). I ended up with better bindings and the same skis for $100 less, plus got my demo's paid for at Mammoth. Only problem is that I don't have any skis for this weekend at Alta.

http://store.christysports.com/catal...kl_gotama_skis

Will you be taking them to REI for mounting?
post #142 of 145
No, I won't be. I talked to a few of the tech's there and they seem knowledgeable but I won't be taking it there. Partly because of my past experience, partly because it's a pain for me to get there and park there.

I'll probably just bring the skis and bindings with me to Alta next weekend and have them mounted there. Anyone have any experience with the Deep Powder House in the Rustler Lodge?
post #143 of 145
Remeasured from the edge and it looks like the bindings are off-center by around 3mm. It's possible that due to my own measurement errors it could be less, but either way, it sounds like this may not be too big of a deal.

I rechecked the fore/aft position of the boot on the ski and noticed that it's more forward than I originally thought. Looks like it is around 5 - 8mm forward. This is issue I chose to discuss with the shop owner/tech. He said that he noticed that the boot was forward as well. He claims that everything was aligned correctly fore/aft (boot, jig, and ski) when he drilled, but when he set the forward pressure, the boot ended up being forward of the mounting line. He said that this sometimes happens with certain boot/binding combinations.

To keep me happy, he did offer to buy the skis from me for what I paid. Since I respect the way he chose to handle the situation, I'd like to get some opinions about whether his explanation makes sense or if he really did mess up the mounting.
post #144 of 145
Generally, the heel piece is moved forward when adjusting fwd pressure, but the toe and boot center is fixed (based on where the jig was positioned). Between the 3mm side to side slop and the 5-8mm longitudinal slop, I would say this was a case of poor jig use, for whatever reason.
post #145 of 145
Couldn't agree with you more, they've ruined my new skis as well, what kind of technicians do they have???

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223 View Post

Agreed on the 2 above posts. REI sucks for ski stuff, I would not trust them for any maintenance whatsoever.
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