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My first (and last) Boston Mills experience

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I’m spending Christmas in Cleveland this year and my sister took the kids and me to Boston Mills today. Let me first say that I have no complaint about the hill. It is what it is, and if that’s all there is to ski on then you just have to make do. There’s nothing wrong with that.

What I will complain about is the brain trust that maintains the place. For all of you Boston Millers, I envy your resolve to ski there despite the laughable grooming…or lack there of. Is it common practice for them to cover the slopes with huge piles of ungroomed man-made snow essentially rendering all but a narrow shoot on each slope unusable? This is on a holiday with big crowds nonetheless! I kept thinking that I would see a cat drive out and start to work on a run but that never happened. I have never seen so many people casually skiing along and then get violently tossed from their skis because they happened to hit a patch of machine-made that should not even be there. If you’re lucky enough to steer clear of the mounds of ungroomed, you still have to be alert to avoid the bowling ball-sized death cookies left behind by the skilled/stoned cat operators. What a mess.

For customers who pay $40 a day, it’s downright insulting to reduce an already tiny area to a few scraps of skiable terrain simply because the owners are either too stupid, cheap or lazy to maintain what little terrain have…not to mention making it unnecessarily dangerous for the patrons. With a place that size, they should have nothing but perfect corduroy covering the entire area. There is absolutely no reason for a place to be in that kind of shape. I guess that when you're the only game in town you can do what you want and the people will still show up. I've been to many of the smaller NY resorts and on their worst day, they still put BM's care-taking to shame.

I’m sure that BM’s logic is that they have to make snow whenever the temp allows them to so they can stay open until April or whenever, customers be damned. The logical retort of the BM customer should be that they would prefer to have well groomed slopes every day during the short peak season rather than to prolong the sh!tty conditions a few days in the spring. The hill would be fine to spend a day on if it were in decent shape, but the lack of respect for the customers made me sick to my stomach. My beloved Rockies are calling me back home…

On a lighter note, for such a small hill I saw to two fantastic skiers. I think they were both instructors. One was for sure, he skied Volkl 5 Stars. The other guy might have been an instructor; he had a similar Karbon jacket and was skiing Elan SLX’s. That dude is an obvious racer and was just tearing that hill to pieces like no other with some of the most athletic, dynamic and aggressive skiing that I’ve seen a while. He skis like he has some personal issues to work out [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] . I’d hate to be a gate is way. That guy was seriously ripping. Do any of you BM regulars know they guys I’m talking about?
post #2 of 25
The guy on the Volkls IS an instructor. His name is John Lang. But the one on the Elans is not. He IS a great skier. His name is Mike. He does race quite a bit, and he is a golf pro. He is a member of EpicSki, too.
post #3 of 25
I've never been to Boston Mills and I didn't spend last week in the Cleveland area, Mike, but I do ski extensively in the midwest, where snowmaking is the only thing that permits skiing.

Your sister can tell you it probably rained last week there.

I can tell you there probably was no chance for them to make snow at Boston Mills between Tuesday the 17th and Monday night before your visit. That was the case approximately 300 miles north (and several degrees colder, usually) where I am in Michigan's northern lower peninsula.

You are fortunate there was something besides dirt to ski on.

I also can tell you that it's pretty inefficient to make snow in the form of skiable powder unless the temperatures are near Zero F. and/or the humidity is extremely low. So making snow in piles and then pushing them around with a groomer is the most efficient approach for the atmospheric circumstances in the midwest Monday night. Now, when snow is made in piles, it must dry out for several hours before it can be moved and groomed.

That's probably why they left piles. They made snow as long as they could and stopped so the guns wouldn't be blowing on you.

Had you visited a year ago, you probably wouldn't have been skiing the 24th of December. Ski areas here didn't open until Christmas Day in many cases.

Happy Holidays.
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi Kneale,

I understand and sypathize with the weather conditions that they have to deal with. Even with the rain that Cleveland had last week, BM still looked like they had about 1.5 - 2 foot base. So they had no urgent need to cover the hill on a holiday. All BM had to do was look at the weather forcast because its going to be cold for the next week, so one day of snowmaking is not going to make any difference to them, but it will to the customer. The place is so small that when a gun blows a pile and it's not groomed, that pile literally shuts down half of the run...and there are multiple piles on each slope. Use some common sense BM.

My point is that when the weather is cold and the snow should be hard and quick (when customers assume the conditions will be good), they F**k it up by having the guns blow piles right down main street. So they basically turn the days that should be good into complete crap so the days which should suck, suck a little less. Skiing on 24" of machine-made in 45 degree weather is the same as skiing on 22" of machine-made in 45 degree weather.

As I look out the window, it appears that we got about 6-8 inches of new snow overnight. I'm going to try and get out there for a few hours this afternoon. I can't imagine that BM gets "dumps" like this too often, so if they ruin these conditions by again having huge piles of ungroomed the customers should demand that the management be committed for pyschological observation.

I hope you have a Merry Christmas.
post #5 of 25
FYI, +mike+, as of Friday the owners of 22 years sold the area to Peak, a multi area owner, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.

I skied there three times a week since they opened and the grooming was immaculate each time edge to edge except for some piles of machine made snow here and there and it is a real test of a skiers ability to ski anything, to seek out these piles of snow, it prepares us for skiing the piles of snow in the spring left in the corner of the K-Mart parking lot .

Tiger should be in good shape today...but Kneale is right in that our areas in the early season blow snow whenever they can to build a base that will survive the January thaw so that the school contracts can be horored.

I hope you have a good day out there today and you now appreciate what kind of skiing we have to put up with. If we could just import one of your unused mountains from the rockies it would be heaven, but alas...

....Ott
post #6 of 25
...this would get me into...*Things I think the Fed. Gov't SHOULD/Shouldn't fund..since they're taking my $$$ anyways*...so with respect to bandwidth....that's it from me...

[ December 25, 2002, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: HaveSkisWillClimb ]
post #7 of 25
Well mike, I guess I don't know what went on Dec 24'th. Usually the hill is groomed nicely. I will be there tomorrow Dec 26th from 9:30 to at least 3:00. If you are still around I can comp you a ticket.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
That's classy of you to offer Pierre, but I'm leaving today. I was out there at 1:00 yesterday and made tracks in the fresh stuff for a while. It was snowing HARD the entire time I was there. I'm assuming that dump should take care you guys for a while.

The kids got wet pretty quickly so the day was cut short. But hey, I never would have thought that I'd be skiing powder in Cleveland I hope you guys have good snow the rest of the year.
post #9 of 25
Mike

The snowmakers here at Boston mills have received your message and we hear you loud and clear. Now I know it maybe hard for you to conceive but we don’t obtain the massive amounts of snow that you think you’re entitled to. This is Ohio man! Not the Rockies! What egg were you hatched out of!? Look I ski just as much as the next guy and I totally hear you when u say "turn off those guns!" but sir we come from 2 very different worlds. My ski season is 3 months long.... yours is at least double that! I come from a place where from the top of the hill I can see the lift line, my car, the road, the river across the street, and so on. You however step off your gondola and have trouble deciphering where the resort ends and wilderness begins.
Also I understand your anger when you shout "there is no need to run those guns its a holiday!" U see sir that was just a good old mistake.... we have been working so much (7 days a week for the past month and a half to be exact).... that we totally forgot there were holidays. Honestly! Hey buddy someone’s got to make those silly death cookies. Am I right? (wink wink)...but sir to call our groomers "skilled/stoned cat operators" is just rude. Please don’t insult us; after all it’s a holiday!

Sir you also said and I quote, "im sure the BM logic is that they have to make snow whenever the temp allows them to so they can stay open till April or whenever, customers damned. The logical retort of the BM customer should be that they would prefer to have well groomed slopes every day during the short peak season rather then prolong the sh!tty conditions a few days in the spring."

It was after you said this that I was calmed by your ignorance. Mike if you think we stay open till April...buddy u smoking some funky sh!t. Mid March on a good year...and to believe that dec. 24 is a part of our "peak season" u must be from out of town. Also in your reply to kneale you further drown yourself in stupidity when you exclaim "there was no urgent need for snow".... them dang flake makers should da checked them weather reports on the TV screen! Well mike ...I decided to check our five-day forecast...and it is as follows:

SAT 28: high 36 low 29/SUN 29: high 40 low 32/MON 30: high 47 low 33/TUES 31: high 41 low 29/WED n/a (probably because u cant predict the weather.) I am sure none of this will matter to anyway...my educated guess is that you don’t even know what a wet bulb temp is.

Though we think you are a complete idiot, we thank you for your input. I can promise you the first day the Rockies take a 2000 mile land shift east we will change our snow making format, but other then that I think well make do with what we got.

Thanks a ton. Oh and enjoy the flight.
post #10 of 25
Well put snowmaker dude. You totally just slammed that guy. That was the best burn I've seen in a while. Hats off to you man. If I'm ever in Ohio during ski season, I'll make it Boston Mills, just cause you Shat on that rude guy. right on.
post #11 of 25
Mike, if I understand right, Boston Mills was just purchased by a new group recently, I am sure you will see the conditions you found ironed out as soon as the new management gets into full swing. Anyhow, from what I have read here you were offered a comp for the area.

When you found these conditions, did you let the management know right away, or did you ski the whole day? Did you say anything at all to the management while you were there?
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Dear BM Snowmaker,

If I may be so presumptuous, I think you should quit your job as a snowmaker and ask to be promoted to the Public Relations department. You clearly have a well developed skill when it comes to dealing with honest, first-hand critisism from a paying customer. Rather than attempt to see if there is validity to my argument by asking other patrons (not employees) how they feel about avoiding massive piles of ungroomed, you launch a personal attack on me. So much for the customer always being right, huh?

Now, allow to address each of you points:

"Now I know it maybe hard for you to conceive but we don’t obtain the massive amounts of snow that you think you’re entitled to. This is Ohio man! Not the Rockies!"

I don't believe I ever said that I was entitled to snow. What every customer is entitled to at a small area like BM is a CONSISTENTLY groomed hill. If you think having 3 or 4 20 yard piles of gun snow in the middle of the hill is consistent grooming, then you sir, are the one smoking the "funky sh!t" Those piles are litteraly unskiable i.e., you get ejected from you skis if you hit them. I saw it happen numerous times with my own eyes, at the top of Croyle, in the middle and side of Croyle and North Bowl and right before the lift line when a guy was stopping. You don't even put some bamboo poles or some other kind of markers in front of them as a warning. I assume that BM has a HUGE beginner and casual (a few times a year) customer base. When these people see these massive piles of snow which look like fresh powder they head straight for them. Even you can guess what happens next. Perhaps you guys get a kick out of it when a 70 year old man hits one of these piles and takes a big fall, or when a little kid goes down hard and starts crying. Personally, I think it's completely irresponsible and unforgivable because with a little common sense and consideration the problem could be IMMEDIATELY resolved. JUST TURN OFF THE GUNS WHEN YOU START TO GROOM AND KEEP THEM OFF UNTIL THE CROWDS THIN OUT! People expect good conditions early in the morning. Not only do you not give them to them in the morning, but you ruin the rest of the day by leaving the piles. You defeat the purpose of grooming when you continue to blow big piles AFTER you have groomed. Does that make any sense?

"My ski season is 3 months long.... yours is at least double that! I come from a place where from the top of the hill I can see the lift line, my car, the road, the river across the street, and so on."

Because your season is so short you should focus on making every day the best it could be. And because your place is so small, if you need to make snow during the day why don't you move your mobile guns to the top and bottom of the hill (not on the slopes and out of the way of the skiers) and just push the snow onto the hill? You slopes are only a couple hundred yards long, so its not as if this would be a major undertaking.

"Also I understand your anger when you shout "there is no need to run those guns its a holiday!" U see sir that was just a good old mistake.... we have been working so much (7 days a week for the past month and a half to be exact).... that we totally forgot there were holidays. Honestly! Hey buddy someone’s got to make those silly death cookies."

That's a great argument, you really put me in my place.

"but sir to call our groomers "skilled/stoned cat operators" is just rude. Please don’t insult us; after all it’s a holiday!"

Calling the cat operators stoned was presumtuous on my part and I stand corrected. I just assumed that by leaving death cookies big enough to choke a dinosaur that the drivers' vision and/or perception of reality may have been distorted. However, I would be willing to bet a year of my pay that BM does not drug test during the season. Even you can't argue that.

"...and to believe that dec. 24 is a part of our "peak season" u must be from out of town."

As I understand it you have been open since the first week of December, so I think you better realize that December 24 is very much a part your peak season. Last I checked the ski season starts when the snow flies, not by what the calender says. Perhaps you should re-examine your logic.

"Also in your reply to kneale you further drown yourself in stupidity when you exclaim "there was no urgent need for snow".... them dang flake makers should da checked them weather reports on the TV screen! Well mike ...I decided to check our five-day forecast...and it is as follows:"

I stand by those words. On Dec 24. you had a substantial base that is not and was not in danger. The weather was cold and it was a holiday. Now I'm going to go out a limb here and assume that a good number of people might want to go skiing on that day. They probably said "lets get up early so we can be there when they open and get the good, fast groomed snow before it gets tracked out." But when they get there they find that yeah, it has been groomed, but it looks like a blizzard. Then they say "I can't see where I'm going, the gun is pointed directly at the chair, I have to avoid these huge piles that for some reason they blew on top of what they already groomed, why am I here and why should I return to ski in this nonsense?" Again, the solution to your problems would be to first shut of the guns once you start to groom and second, ask the customers what they think of the conditions.

SAT 28: high 36 low 29/SUN 29: high 40 low 32/MON 30: high 47 low 33/TUES 31: high 41 low 29/WED n/a (probably because u cant predict the weather.) I am sure none of this will matter to anyway.

The weather forcast on Dec 24. predicted night-time low temps in the teens and low 20's for the next 5 days. That's the information you were going on as well on that date. They predicted major snowfall for the next day and they were correct. You guys probably got ten inches. Was it still necessary to ruin a holiday? Maybe you should place a little more emphisis on the actual skiing conditions...just a thought.

"Though we think you are a complete idiot, we thank you for your input."

Do you realize that you are acting as representative of BM when you write these words? I take back what I said earlier about you guys not being stoned. You must be stoned or monumentally stupid to call a customer with valid suggestions an "idiot" for all the world to see. I can see you accomplishing great things in your life. Your people skills are impeccable. Perhaps I should forward your kind words to your employer. I'm sure they would be quite pleased with the way you reply to a customer who flew across the country to be with his family for Christmas and decided to spend his time and money at your resort. It's good to see that you take a customers suggestion for improving the skiing conditions so seriously. I think that all of the BM patrons who read this can rest assured that nothing will change as long as thick-headed and rude employees such as yourself are at the helm.

"Oh and enjoy the flight"

I got bumped from business-class to first-class, so thank you, I really did enjoy the flight.

Allow me to state my suggestions one more time in dialect you may more clearly comprehend:

Dude, I'm down with the fact that you cats don't get knarley snow from the heavens, but dude, man, I mean dude you need to keep what you do have in totally bitchn' shape so me and the blue-hairs don't konk our mellons on the ground when we plow through those whales you blew in my line, man. Can you dig it, dude?

Take a cue from Pierre and Ott and get some class.
post #13 of 25
mike

first of all thank you for replying to my letter. I was unsure if I would every hear from you
again. thank you so much. also before I begin I would just like you to please understand
that though my screen name is bm snowmaker that doesn’t in anyway make this a formal
letter from Boston mills. oh and when I say we I only mean me...yes IM the only guy that
feels this way...just me...uno....one. me.

sir I feel that I have been misunderstood by you and I think it may even be my fault....well
only maybe. u see mike when I exclaimed that u were an “idiot” I didn’t mean you
weren’t smart I just meant you were uneducated...........about our snowmaking situation.
However I think u have subconsciously realized now that Cleveland isn’t a part of the
rockies mountains...and for that I salute you ..sir.

however sir u seem to have some sort of sharp and relentless anger towards my resort,
which is all right I guess this is America you can shout in haste and not be stoned
(throwing rocks) for it. you interpret your first letter as, “customer suggestions for
improving the skiing conditions.” well mike if you call that giving suggestions then maybe
IM paddling up sh!t creek here. OH and you had to call me a stoner again!...sir I assure
you that I do not use any narcotics which could endanger my snowmaking performance.

oh but mike to suggest that we want to hurt people....old, young, in between, well that is
just foolishness. the thing is you really believe that you were in danger right? please tell me
that was for dramatic affect. OK.

now I do suppose even though this was a private letter I shouldn’t have called you names
and said your ugly and that no one likes you cuz your dumb....(wait I didn’t say that) well
you get the point, it was wrong of me to suggest any thing close to that. you did fly a
long ways to be with your family and to put down your money to come to our little piece
of heaven. that was mighty fine of you sir. you see I was acting out of passion....though
you may think IM a lair with I think you said “people issues” but I really do care about
the place you so violently insulted earlier....yesterday...one of our own instructors gave a
friend/CO worker of mine the finger and told him to !@#$ off because some guy on
epicski said we sucked. just like that. hard to believe huh? I in no way blame you for
this...well I guess I do...you see u had one experience on a day where were lucky to be
open and you just had no thought in what you wrote.......ya kind of remind me of that
snickers commercial when the guy skis into the building because he has been talking so
much he forgot where he was going.....reflect on that mike ....reflect. however I would
really like to talk to you more my e-mail is guitar_star27@yahoo.com write me leave a
number I can call.....id really like to put a voice with the insults that have been ripping my
life apart.

thanks

snowmaker

Ps....if you could please describe the dinosaur choking death cookies you speak so much
about. thanks a ton mike
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
"before I begin I would just like you to please understand
that though my screen name is bm snowmaker that doesn’t in anyway make this a formal
letter from Boston mills. oh and when I say we I only mean me...yes IM the only guy that
feels this way...just me...uno....one. me."

My complements on your ability to back-pedal and cover yourself.

"However I think u have subconsciously realized now that Cleveland isn’t a part of the
rockies mountains...and for that I salute you ..sir."

I grew up in western New York (Peak n Peak, Hollimont, Cockaigne, etc) and Vermont and realized long ago that I was not in the Rockies. I also never said a bad word about the terrain. In fact, I said it would be a fine place to spend a day if it were better maintained.

"however sir u seem to have some sort of sharp and relentless anger towards my resort,"

My anger is directly aimed at the fact that your slopes had multiple piles of gun snow placed in ways which only allowed for a little shoot of the hill to be used...and that you made no effort to remedy situation throughout the day. The people I met when there were as friendly as I could have hoped for. Why do you blow big piles in the middle of the slopes after you have groomed?

"oh but mike to suggest that we want to hurt people....old, young, in between, well that is
just foolishness. the thing is you really believe that you were in danger right? please tell me
that was for dramatic affect. OK."

I saw people go down without warning a number of times because of your snow. I did not say that you want people to get hurt. However, by having the unmarked messes that you undeniably do, makes it an unnecessary hazard that should be dealt with. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but those are the facts. Fortunately I did not put myself in any danger because sadly, enough other people went down before anyone whom I was skiing with had a chance to. Why do you blow big piles in the middle of the slopes after you have groomed?

"but I really do care about the place you so violently insulted earlier"

I never insulted BM. I stated facts concerning the condition of the slopes (not the quality of snow). Why do you blow big piles in the middle of the slopes after you have groomed?

"yesterday...one of our own instructors gave a
friend/CO worker of mine the finger and told him to !@#$ off because some guy on epicski said we sucked"

Yeah, I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with your conditions. It was cold yesterday in Cleveland, right? So, based on my experience at BM and from your refusal to address the issue at hand, I would guess that when you opened (a holiday weekend with large expected crowds) that you had all of your guns going, probably pointed at the chairs, and again, had big piles of ungroomed scattered around the slopes. Perhaps someone who was at BM yesterday could fill us in. Maybe you should ask the instructor why he said what he did. After all, what does he know. He's only on the hill all day. That would only supply you with the answer that you refuse to hear. Do you even ski?

"ya kind of remind me of that
snickers commercial when the guy skis into the building because he has been talking so
much he forgot where he was going.....reflect on that mike ....reflect."

Perhaps you should reflect on my comments instead of attempting to conjur up an unsuccesful witty reply. Why do you blow big piles in the middle of the slopes after you have groomed?

"id really like to put a voice with the insults that have been ripping my
life apart."

Maybe I could invite you over for dinner. my wife and three young children would love to meet you. If I did have you over, all I would ask is "Why do you blow big piles in the middle of the slopes after you have groomed?"...and the death cookies were underneath the middle 3 lift poles on Croyle and under the gun on North Bowl next to the jump. Fact.

You can reply to this thread as much as you want, I'm done with it. I won't be back to Ohio for at least a year so don't focus on me. Instead of trying to hopelessy turn YOUR grooming/snowmaking problem into an attack of my knowledge of snowmaking, perhaps you should carefully peruse my initial response to your letter and see if my critisism is valid...and I assure you that it is. I could care less about BM.

But here's the bottom line and this is the only text that you need to focus on: Send out an email to your passholders and ask them if they would rather ski with the guns on at full-blast at opening time or not. And ask them if they like it when you have massive piles of ungroomed in the middle of slopes and if they like skiing through it, falling in it or avoiding it. You might also want to have courtesy person roaming the lift lines and asking the same questions. How many people do think will answer "yes" to these, the only questions that should matter to you. As with most things in life, quality is valued over quantity.

The only response you should be writing is one which addresses the substantive issues at hand. Not once have you attempted to answer the problems of your inappropiate maintenence. Don't worry about me, just focus on the happiness of the customers. Nothing you say or write means anything unless you try to resolve the situation and stop denying it.
post #15 of 25
Boys, Boys, play nice.
post #16 of 25
I have never been to BM, however, the conditions sound quite familiar, almost universal in the warmer climes.

I have seen instructors and the general public do double ejections when they hit that glue. A hazard to be sure.

Of course we could make some $ on "Whale Wax".
post #17 of 25
Alright Mike, this is round two for the ass chewing, like my freind that replied the first time, I too make snow at Boston Mills, and I can assure you you are a complete ignorant *******. From now on when you'd like to complain about something, make sure you know what the hell you're talking about. I know your little head is spinning with assumptions about our snow and grooming, when fact is you never took the time to talk to any one of us that work here, you decided it would be best to slander our resort in front of the whole world then to try and understand the reasoning behind our stoned groomers and death cookies. In fact the only time you were ever right about anything the whole time was when you said your name was Mike and you went to Boston Mills, after that you went down the shitter. First off, the night before you were here, we had really cold temps, so therefore we made a shit load of snow, at that rate it's hard for the groomers to keep up with the snowmaking, not to mention we had 6 inches of natural that day, so while the hills may look untouched, your beloved courdoroy was just covered with natural. second, unlike your hallowed rockies, we don't get damn 8 feet of natural over night, so we have to make do with what we have, and we have to make snow every chance we get. Look at it this way, if you suck it up and ski through it now, thats all the longer we get to stay open. Now I know exactly what youre thinking right now. You think I'm an ******* that shouldn't be working here and I should lose my job for talking like this to a customer. well, I dont give a damn, you're exactly right, I am an ass, and I shouldn't say these things to a customer, but dammit Mike, someone had to shut you the hell up, I'm not about to sit idle while some ignorant **** tells the whole world not to ski here. So in closing, thank you for your money and enjoy the rockies. Merry Christmas.
post #18 of 25
What can you expect from a rinky-dink sledding hill in Ohio with 240 vertical? It is what it is. Most ski areas of any size have enough designated trails that they can make snow on closed trails while having at least half the mountain open. The way BM is designed, they cannot do that. They must blow snow when conditions permit while the skiable terrain is open. This means skiers will have to put up with skiing around mounds of ungroomed man-made. My only issue here would be that they should place a sign at the top of each "run" warning skiers of the conditions, ie. blowing man-made snow and the mounds. On bigger hills, you can get away with some small man-made mounds for a while because there is ample room to ski around them. You don't have that "chute" effect and you can usually ski through it if you have to.

Message to the snowmakers....

Learn to take some criticism and be a bit more mature. If I was your manager and I read your sophomoric diatribes on this board, I would use you for this season but not hire you back again. You do not represent your employer well.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
“Alright Mike, this is round two for the ass chewing, like my friend that replied the first time, I too make snow at Boston Mills, and I can assure you are a complete ignorant *******. From now on when you'd like to complain about something, make sure you know what the hell you're talking about”

I can see that you, like your fellow snowmaker, are also well versed in the art of customer service. It’s nice to see that open-minded employees such as yourself are willing to look at a problem and deal with it in a cordial and respectful manner…might I also add that you and your fellow Nobel Peace Prize candidate friend and quite the wordsmiths. As for knowing what I’m talking about, I believe that I have replied to every line of your attempted justification for your maintenance with indisputable facts. You have not addressed any of the points I have put forth. I graduated from Cornell University and have graduate degree from Dartmouth…those two institutions will be pleased to know that they produced an “ignorant *******”

“when fact is you never took the time to talk to any one of us that work here, you decided it would be best to slander our resort in front of the whole world then to try and understand the reasoning behind our stoned groomers and death cookies”

Slander you resort? I did no such thing nor would I ever. I said your timing of snowmaking and lack of effort to remedy the situation was laughable. It would be slanderous or libelous if my comments were false, which they are not nor, have you or friend acknowledged the situation, you simply call me names. Are you sure I’m the ignorant one?

Judging from the warm and fuzzy replies you give to an anonymous customer I can only imagine how you would deal with face-to-face criticism. “Excuse me sir, every other time I ride up the chair I see someone fall in the piles of snow that you blew all over the slopes. Could you possibly put something in front of them so people could be made aware of the danger? Would it also be possible for you to close a hill for a short amount of time so you could run the cat over the large amounts of ungroomed? The customers would really appreciate that. And you also might want to turn the guns off on a hill as soon as you begin to groom it, that way every inch of the slope will be useable and we won’t have to run a slalom course through the piles.” Your reply: “We all think that you are a complete F***ing idiot and you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Thanks for your money and get out of here you ignorant ****.” Now I may be exaggerating by putting words in your mouth…Oh Wait a Minute…those are the exact words and attitude that you classy gentleman have put forth. And you wonder why nobody has complained to you. They would be lucky if you didn’t give them a swift kick in the balls for questioning your “expertise” and tell them to f**k off. And please tell us all the “reasoning” for leaving death cookies. As far as I can see, the only reasons would be incompetence and/or carelessness.

“In fact the only time you were ever right about anything the whole time was when you said your name was Mike and you went to Boston Mills, after that you went down the shitter”

I gave you FACTS with every post I have made. FACTS. You had piles all over the place. Only a tiny shute to the right of the bumps had a clear line down. You had the entire side between the Croyle upper lift hut and bumps covered with gun snow. Hence, that way down was impossible. You had the entire left side of Croyle covered with gun snow and that way down was impossible. Under the Croyle chair was covered with gun snow until the last 2 poles, so that way down was impossible. Only a small line on Croyle was skiable, but then you had the gun snow at the bottom half of the hill, so that area was unskiable as well. You had a huge pile under 2 lift poles on the double chair, so that was unskiable. The only thing left to ski was a small shute to the left of the building on top of North Bowl. FACT. Your instructors had a clinic that day, ask them, genius. They were only skiing that one usable strip along with every else. The problem could be completely negated if you simply turned the guns off as soon as you put a cat on a hill in the morning. Problem solved. Instead of making yourself and the Boston Mills Human Resource Department look bad with you pitiful attempts to justify your baseless argument (whatever it may be, I’m not quite sure because you haven’t addressed a single complaint) why don’t you ask the customers and instructors/patrollers what they think about your obsession of covering the slopes with slop after you took the time to groom them?

“First off, the night before you were here, we had really cold temps, so therefore we made a shit load of snow, at that rate it's hard for the groomers to keep up with the snowmaking, not to mention we had 6 inches of natural that day, so while the hills may look untouched, your beloved corduroy was just covered with natural”.

Good, you made snow at night. I was in the state of Ohio and the city of Bath (minutes from BM) and as sure as you are a bad representative of BM, you DID NOT get 6 inches of snow that night. You got snow a ton of snow during the NIGHT of Dec. 24 and all of Christmas day. It looks as though were in the state of confusion.

If you think that I was skiing on natural snow on Dec 24 you are beyond reproach. There was not a flake of real snow to be seen. The hill was entirely machine snow. Again, ask the instructors. Corduroy covered with natural…that’s even funnier than the image I have of you guys huddled around a computer screen reading this and hopelessly trying to come up with witty responses. You guys must keep your hut warm with the smoke that comes out your ears when you’re trying to compose your verbal spears.

“we have to make do with what we have, and we have to make snow every chance we get”

You folks seem to forget that you are in the business of pleasing the customers. Now that you a base that will hold up the rest of the season, and you know that it will even with the few odd days of rain mixed in, you don’t need to make snow after you have groomed the slopes. Again, you defeat the purpose of grooming when you cover the hill with piles of gun snow once the cats are done. Blow at 100% through the nigh and early morning, then shut them off when you start to groom a hill. We’re not splitting the atom here, boys. This is common sense.

“Look at it this way, if you suck it up and ski through it now, thats all the longer we get to stay open”

Your area is so small that the customer should not have to “suck it up” and deal with a problem that can be solved by you guys actually doing LESS work. Turn off the guns when the cat is on a hill. Telling the customers to “suck it up” is another example of the respect you have for their enjoyment at BM. I bet you work at a golf course during the summer cutting grass, right? And when your baskets get full of grass you stop in the middle of the fairway and dump the clippings. The customers should just “suck it up” and play through it. If a golfer complains that his drive which hit down the middle of the fairway came to rest in big pile of grass, you would just say “you idiot, I only have so much time to grass so just suck it up and play through it. Thanks for your money, you ignorant ***”.

Do you think your customers really care if you stay open an extra week in the middle of March, by which time there are other outdoor activities to pursue? By that time they are just skiing in slush and dirt. The only people who ski on those days are passholders, right? Nobody is going to pay $40 to ski in those conditions, which will be poor no matter how much of a base you had. So do you think the customers are willing sacrifice a day which SHOULD be perfect in the middle of the season for a day of slush skiing in March? Open your eyes.

“you think I'm an ******* that shouldn't be working here and I should lose my job for talking like this to a customer”

I could care less about you. However, I would hate to see you lose your job because with people skills like yours you wouldn’t have a prayer being hired somewhere else. Then I’d have to support you with my tax dollars. Frankly, if your employer did see the way their employees treat their customers, you would lose your job in a heartbeat. Most business when presented with a complaint or suggestion say “How can we fix the problem and give our customers what they want and deserve?” You guys keep your blinders on and attack the person who brought a VERY REAL problem to your attention and refuse to see the light.

“someone had to shut you the hell up, I'm not about to sit idle while some ignorant **** tells the whole world not to ski here”

If you would admit to the problem the untimely snowmaking and lack of consideration towards the customers I would shut up. You’re focusing the maintence issue on me when in fact; you need to look into the problem yourself. As for telling the whole world not to ski there, I never once said that, not once. I clearly said that it is what it is, and it would be a fine place to spend the day and the people were very friendly. You are having enough trouble trying to convey what you want to say so don’t even attempt to put words in my mouth. Go back through each of my posts and respond line-by-line to the issues I have raised and then see how solid your footing is on this topic. I answered every one of your guys’ lines and have backed up my words with irrefutable facts. I urge you to do the same.

I think you guys; through your thoughtful posts have done more to diminish the reputation of BM than I or any other customer could ever have done.

Look, here it is in nutshell. Address these issues then let us know if you guys are still in the right:

1)Show this thread to the management at BM at see if they think the criticism is valid.
2)Send out an email to your passholders and see if they want the guns on in the morning, if they like the piles you leave for them and if they would rather you not blow them on the fresh corduroy.
3)Put the same questionnaire up on a bulletin board so the customers can respond.
4)Ask the instructors/patrollers how they feel about you guys blowing onto what you have groomed and if they like just “sucking it up” and dealing with it.
5)Ask the patrollers how many injuries have been attributed to someone being ejected in your piles.
6)Strap on a pair of skis and try to ski through it yourself.
7)If you must blow, post warnings or tape the areas off.
8)Blow at the top and bottom of the hills, not on the slopes if you must blow during the day.
9)Don’t aim the guns at the chairs.
10)And the solution to all of the above problems: turn the guns off when you put a cat on a hill so people who drag themselves out of bed in the morning can have wall-to-wall carpet to ski on. This involves no additional work on your part, so you should like that.

I have no problem with the amount of snow you had or the quality of snow you made. I’m sure it was as good as it could have been. My problem is with the way you guys unnecessarily leave the stuff on the hill with no concern for skiing conditions or line that the patrons are squeezed onto. You make yourself and BM look bad with your sophomoric responses and failure to thoughtfully address the issue. So for the good of you and your company, I suggest that you look into what I have said and don’t waste any more time on this site.

If you must respond again, please come up with some stronger arguments and facts. I’m getting tired of hitting your softballs out of the park.

P.S. Hey AE, I noticed in your response to this thread that you ski 100 days per season and that you knew the guys by name that I asked about. I assume that you then ski BM several times week are very familiar with the issue at hand, so am I right with what I’m saying? And did they in fact have the guns going at full blast on Friday morning (after they groomed) and pointing at the chairs? I bet they did. If people at BM know that AE is you, please don’t respond. I wouldn’t want you to be subjected to any of the overwhelming “kindness” that seems to flow so effortlessly from the BM staff.
post #20 of 25
Mike, quit your whining. So you didn't like Boston Mills. Get over it.

You have already stated that you are not from the area, so your knowledge of the conditions they have to work with is apparently incomplete. Nor do I see any evidence in your rantings that you have experience either as a snowmaker or as a groomer. It appears to me that you have self-appointed yourself as an expert in the area of mountain operations in Ohio.

I would certainly be insulted by your attitude if you ever came to my neck of the woods.
post #21 of 25
Mike & various other whiners:

Shut up and go ski!

If you don't want to (or just can't because of lack of skill) deal with the variable conditions then don't buy a ticket. I'd guess there are more than a few Ohioans (is that a word?) that are grateful to be there. Join them or go away!

This is not necessarily directed just at this particular area but to the people that patronize all of the areas that are located in less than accomodating climates throughout the country. These areas are doing there best just to be OPEN AND TO PROVIDE SKIING TO THE PUBLIC. If they waited to have perfect conditions before opening they would never be able to open. Get over it, and read the disclaimer at the ticket window that says to check the conditions before purchasing your ticket.
post #22 of 25
Please, folks, let this thread die, you both have said what you are going to say, over and over again.

Mike, as I said above, what you experienced is not the norm but it happens occasionally and I have complained about it too, but the response you got, I think, is because of the TONE of your post.

Had you said it in a normal tone you may never have gotten a reply from the snowmakers. Namecalling almost always brings forth a kneejerk reaction and don't let facts get in the way.

So you were right, Boston Mills is what it is, warts and all, and we are mighty glad to have it, considering the alternative.

...Ott
post #23 of 25
I think that some folks dispointment in any given resort/area is due to what the areas themselves say about what you can expect. Curious I looked up Boston Mills web page. They tout both thier snowmaking and grooming:
Grooming
We purchased five new Pisten Bully snow grooming vehicles prior to the start of the 2002/2003 season. Our entire fleet of Pisten Bully grooming machines are used nightly to provide a nice reconditioned surface each day for our customers.

Given that is it unreasonable for +mike+ to expect that the runs be groomed?

I do think that resorts/areas need to be accountable for what they advertise.
post #24 of 25
hey mike, its me again, i got a different name than my freinds so you can distinguish between the two
first i want to apologize for the obviously immature and assaholic way i responded, but frankly i read what you wrote, and got pissed
now, i dont know what you do for a living, and im not sure i care, but i think youd be pissed if some one who didnt know what goes on behind the scenes started complaining about how poorly you do your job and told the world about it. im sure any logical person can understand that.
and you see, im in kind of a catch 22, beause not only do i make the snow, but i snowboard on it, so i do know how terrible it is when the guns are going with wales of snow under each one, and for that i apologize, but mike you have to understand this, and i know weve said it many times, but the conditions in NE ohio just dont allow for making snow a few hours at night, we go through long warm spells where it can be up to 45 degrees and raining( like right now). and it may seem like we have alot of snow, but you probably know as well as i that a few days of rain can kill snow faster than anything.
now, as for your complaint that we didnt get a cat out on the slopes to fix the whales. there are 2 problems with that scenario.first, if we were to bring out our cats, we would have to shut down the hill theyre working on, so that takes the "few scraps of skiable powder" down to no skiable powder. and second, flattening out a whale of wet snow only makes for flat patches of wet snow. flattening snow doesnt dry it. and yes ill admit it is our fualt for making wet snow, its true, but the truth is we messed up. we were working in the garage and the tempature jumped 4 degrees, and those for degrees was the difference between snow and rain. so by the time we had a chance to get to the computer room, it was too late, we had already been cuaght with our thumbs in our asses. once again for that i apologize.
snowmaking is something we take seriously mike, beleive it or not we do care about what kinds of snow we have, good snow brings customers, and customers bring money, and money pays my check, and my check buys me beer. so im sure you could see why this is important to me (no, i dont drink at work).
now i have to ask a favor of you,...i want you to not use this one poor example of ski conditions to hinder your veiw of ohio skiing. for what we hae to work with as far as hills and temps, i think we do an excellent job. once again you caught us on a bad day, trust me when i say that normally the conditions are excellent, and im sure if you were to come back to any ohio resort on any given day, you would be pleased with what we have to offer.
well, ive hope ive cleare up some missconceptions about our resort, and aybe saved a little face in the process, if youve got any more questions/complaints, let me know, ill try to see to them the best i can,
luke
post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 
Fair enough...apology accepted.

Just to be clear, I NEVER commented on your quality of snow, only of your handling of what you made.

You might consider choosing your words more prudently in the future and take a customers critism more seriously, no matter how you interpret the tone.

And to the guy who said I was "whining": I spent over $200 that day and got unneccesarily poor conditions and overtly rude responses to my comments. There is a very distinct difference between voicing a legitimate complaint and whining.

All seems to be well now.
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