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DIY Boot sole planning??

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Soooo is this possible?

The reason I ask is that my Norica Doberman WCs are looking worn on the heel and toe (but god they are the best fitting pair of boots I have ever had, I only regret not buying multiple pairs!) so I would like to grind the sole flat, skim the top lugs and fix on the plastic plates back to DIN standard. I think some people refer to this as boot lifting - I dont race any more just freeski so height isn't an issue.

I would just go to a shop and have it done but...no shops in the UK offer the service for insurance reasons (and time and hastle) and to DHL the boots to the US is a wee bit pricey. Can anyone recommend a store in Europe that can do this (I seem to remember it's popular in Austria) or what tools would I need to do it myself (I can get spare boots to practice on before risking the actual pair)

Thoughts please, someone must have tried it or had it done European side

Cheers


Simon
post #2 of 27
Be prepared to spend in the neighborhood of $200 to have this done. Almost any shop classified by a manufacturer as a "race center" should be able to do it.
post #3 of 27
I don't know of any shops in Europe but I do know how to do it. Unless you have a planer/jointer, shaper/router, calipers, and a lot of patience you won't be able to do it properly. The biggest requirement is a planer or jointer though - and a good one of those is going to run you probably $1000+ USD. I wouldn't mess with them unless you are having serious problems stepping into your bindings.
Later
GREG
post #4 of 27
I'm a guy that does virtually everything myself. Boot punches, grinding, ski tuning, binding installation etc.
Personally, I wouldn't attempt planing my boots without the tool made for that purpose. The problem would be getting the toe and heel lugs back to DIN. If you have 6mm lift plates, which are pretty common, you would have to plane off exactly 6mm before screwing them on. That would be quite a bit to plane off. If you plane off less than that and then screw on the lifters, you will have to use a router to shave down the top of the toe and heel lugs... Again requiring a special router table jig.

Your best bet would be to find a Nordica tech rep. Sometimes referred to as a race service rep. They usually are good bootfitters/techs and will have tools in their van, including a router with the appropriate jig. If you can find someone with the router, you can just screw on the lifters without any planing of the sole, then router the top of the lugs so you are back to DIN.

If all else fails and you decide to try it yourself (they are close to being ruined already if you DON'T do it, right?) I would use a good quality woodworking jointer like this: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.gif

Use a scrap piece of wood to set the blade to take off the exact amount of the thickness of the lift. If you have a choice of lift thicknesses, pick a minimal thickness. Hopefully you will be able to rest the inner edge of the boot shell against the fence to keep the sole straight.

Now... once you plane it, the lifts won't fit on right away. You'll have to "customize" the toe and heel angles to match the plates. I would use a bench mounted belt sander for this job. Once they match up perfectly, glue 'em and screw 'em! You should be all set.

If you are good with power tools, I think it's possible.... but use up your other options first! Good luck, and post pictures of the process if you do it!
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post
Hopefully you will be able to rest the inner edge of the boot shell against the fence to keep the sole straight.
Use two more pieces of scrap on either side of the sole to keep it straight. But it really should not matter, so long as you keep the boot flat.

Why bother planing the entire sole?

Why not use a router table just to remove heel and toe sections that you wish to replace? The benefit here is that you get zero added height. Can the Dobermann handle losing a 6 mm chunk out of the heel and toe area?
post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Use two more pieces of scrap on either side of the sole to keep it straight. But it really should not matter, so long as you keep the boot flat.

Why bother planing the entire sole?

Why not use a router table just to remove heel and toe sections that you wish to replace? The benefit here is that you get zero added height. Can the Dobermann handle losing a 6 mm chunk out of the heel and toe area?
You wouldn't be adding height. If you plane off 6mm, then screw 6mm plates onto the sole of the boot, your standheight is exactly the same as it was.

I'm not sure if those boots could afford to lose 6mm or not.... Like I said, if there is a thinner one, like 3mm, that would definitely be preferable.
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post
You wouldn't be adding height. If you plane off 6mm, then screw 6mm plates onto the sole of the boot, your standheight is exactly the same as it was.

I'm not sure if those boots could afford to lose 6mm or not.... Like I said, if there is a thinner one, like 3mm, that would definitely be preferable.
I have 5mm risers on head RD96 and had 8mm risers on my salomon X2. Don't worry about taking the full amount off the bottom. A little x-tra rise won't hurt. Afterall all boots used to be 50mm now are 45mm. jJust take off the minimum necessary to get the bottoms back in shape and then take off the correct amount off heel & toe lug tops to get back to DIN.

I do not think you want to take 5-8mm off the soles.
post #8 of 27
If you would want to ship them to me at Snowind Sports in Reno, NV. I will true and plate them for you for $60. Let me know. Shipping both ways would be yours of course.
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Don't worry about taking the full amount off the bottom. A little x-tra rise won't hurt. ....Just take off the minimum necessary to get the bottoms back in shape and then take off the correct amount off heel & toe lug tops to get back to DIN.
It's not that the extra rise would be a problem...I think taking the extra off the tops would be the hard part. Unless of course you have the right bit and router table.
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post
It's not that the extra rise would be a problem...I think taking the extra off the tops would be the hard part. Unless of course you have the right bit and router table.
exactly, that is the hard part! sound like Bud's deal would be pretty hard to pass up! it's a bargain! (except for the shipping of course)
post #11 of 27
SJ, I seriously suggest that you take up Bud's offer & ship your boots over to him. $60 is a great price & well worth you paying the shipping costs.

As you say there's no-one in the UK that can do this kind of work which is why I had Bud balance my boots at the ESA '06 event in Utah by planing the soles & adding plates etc. The quality of his work is second to none which is why I'm thinking of getting Bud to ship me another pair of new boots pre-balanced to the same spec.

BTW Bud, did you manage to find my spec sheet?
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice guys and may I say Bud that is a very kind offer and an excellent price. I am about to weigh each boot minus the buckles to see if I can get the shipping costs to a more palatable level - I seem to remember DHL quoted me £150 last time which is too much to swallow at the moment, but we shall see.

The heel and toe lugs are not too far worn down, I guess, but I would like to prolong the boots life as far as possible and replaceable soles seems a way to keep them going (cat tracks drove me crazy especially when your hand gets pincered inbetween boot and cat: ) - you know what its like when you've found a perfect pair of boots!
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
If you would want to ship them to me at Snowind Sports in Reno, NV. I will true and plate them for you for $60. Let me know. Shipping both ways would be yours of course.
I would sy that you would be an idiot not to take him up on this offer.......
However you may have pre-disposed your self to that clasification for even thinking about dooing this yourself.

Think about it.
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier View Post
I would sy that you would be an idiot not to take him up on this offer.......
However you may have pre-disposed your self to that clasification for even thinking about dooing this yourself.

Think about it.
That's a little harsh. Shipping is spendy! doing it yourself is spendier!
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
That's a little harsh. Shipping is spendy! doing it yourself is spendier!
Heh good point.
post #16 of 27
OOOOOPs!

I started looking for it and got side tracked and totally forgot! Sorry!

will resume search Monday>
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderjon View Post
SJ, I seriously suggest that you take up Bud's offer & ship your boots over to him. $60 is a great price & well worth you paying the shipping costs.

As you say there's no-one in the UK that can do this kind of work which is why I had Bud balance my boots at the ESA '06 event in Utah by planing the soles & adding plates etc. The quality of his work is second to none which is why I'm thinking of getting Bud to ship me another pair of new boots pre-balanced to the same spec.

BTW Bud, did you manage to find my spec sheet?
post #17 of 27
as far as the right tool for the job..

http://www.gmolfoot.com/tools.html

I don't know what they want for the jointer but I know it costs about 1000.00 usd to build one of very good quality. (and that doesn't include the time and machine tools to build the parts)

I'm building a woodworking jointer using a byrdtool shelix jointer cutter.
It will be a sweet jointer and would joint boot plastic extremly clean but that's a lot of money to just plane a pair of boots. Send em to Bud.

DC
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
as far as the right tool for the job..

http://www.gmolfoot.com/tools.html

I don't know what they want for the jointer but I know it costs about 1000.00 usd to build one of very good quality. (and that doesn't include the time and machine tools to build the parts)

I'm building a woodworking jointer using a byrdtool shelix jointer cutter.
It will be a sweet jointer and would joint boot plastic extremly clean but that's a lot of money to just plane a pair of boots. Send em to Bud.

DC
Actually, since you posted that link, I think I would be MORE likely to give it a try. The planer I have seen isn't like that one. It holds the boot sole up, and a planer slides on rails over the boot sole. It is very specialized, only for ski boots.
The one pictured in your link is just a simple woodworking jointer. Yes, it would be expensive to buy, but I'm sure SJ could find someone with a woodshop who already has one. Now I am more confident that it would work well.

Also, there is a good shot in that link of what I meant by "customizing the toe and heel. You will have to re-establish the original toe and heel angles after planing.

I'm kinda rootin' for you to give it a try!
post #19 of 27
The jointer part is not the primary issue, Trust me, a $250 jointer used skillfully will do the planing job just fine. The routing of the boot lugs is the part that requires special router bits and a custom built table and guage. DO NOT TRY TO DO THE JOB WITHOUT THIS SPECIALIZED TOOL, or you will ruin your boots. You can possibly source all the required tools but they will costs you a few hundred dollars. Also, be sure to practice on a few "disposable" boots before attempting your own.

Also, once you have planed the bottom of the boot you need to sand the toe and heel ramps back to DIN specs so the sole plates will match up correctly. By the way I would reccommend getting some spare plates as they need to be replaced from time to time as they wear or sometimes break.

Good luck,

b
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
The routing of the boot lugs is the part that requires special router bits and a custom built table and guage. DO NOT TRY TO DO THE JOB WITHOUT THIS SPECIALIZED TOOL
Definitely agree.

Bud, If he planed off 3mm then put on a 3mm plate, he should be pretty well set without routing the top of the lugs at all, right? That is really the only way I would do it in his case.
post #21 of 27
I'm with the others- try to go with Bid's offer. Might I suggest a trip tot he postal service or someone else- DHL at $150 seems very steep, if you can live with a slower form of delivery. Go slow boat but be sure to insure them and use a service with a tracking number.

good luck-
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post
Definitely agree.

Bud, If he planed off 3mm then put on a 3mm plate, he should be pretty well set without routing the top of the lugs at all, right? That is really the only way I would do it in his case.
Though I think the obvious solution for the overall problem is to send the boots out to Bud, the DIN spec calls for +/- 1mm tolerance on the toe and heel heights which is huge when compared to most kinds of machining work. So you could certainly get by if you're careful enough; I still wouldn't recommend it though...
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
Well I wouldn't classify myself as an idiot for contemplating this kind of work - but hey that's why I asked, else I would be on here moaning about how I slipped with the router and whether evo-sticking bits of plastic will take me back to DIN

Here is a link to the upside down planer that was referred to earlier
http://www.sportinglife.ca/Services/...tomBootFit.asp

Bud I have looked at your site and it sounds good, I will try and get a good postage rate through work.

I am still tempted to try it myself on some old boots - more for curiositys sake, will post pics when I get the time to do it. I might try using a pillar drill set to a specific distance with a router bit to do the top heel and toe lugs

Best

Simon
post #24 of 27

thank g-d for lange toe and heel parts

i now appreciate the lange design. but buds offer is even better. and at the right time of year you could send yourself to the US for the dhl price, (carry the boots, and ski tahoe) you can also probably fid last years dobermans for $400
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by S J View Post
Here is a link to the upside down planer that was referred to earlier
http://www.sportinglife.ca/Services/...tomBootFit.asp
Yup. That is the exact one I was talking about.

Hopefully you can find a good rate to ship to the U.S. It would definitely be preferable to have Bud do it with the right tools.
post #26 of 27
SJ,

My offer is still good but if your sole intention is to get your boots flat again and the heel is NOT worn to the point where you are having problems engaging the heel piece, I believe you may only have to take a millimeter off the bottom. and as noted above you may have 1 mm to work with without having to do anything further? This could be done with nothing more than a jointer, (a borrowed jointer)! Your toe lugs should be no less than 18mm. and your heels no less than 29mm.

b
post #27 of 27
SJ, I've found the cheapest tracked/insured parcel rates to the US to be the 'International Scheduled' from Parcelforce. A pair of boots to Bud should be under £70. My Dominator Wax products are shipped to me by United States Parcel Service (USPS) tracked mail & have been excellent so ask Bud to quote you the return shipping with them.
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