EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Stockli Stormrider XL or 06/07 AC4?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Stockli Stormrider XL or 06/07 AC4?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I'm looking at a 174 Stockli Stormrider XL or the 06/07 177 AC4.

These skis would replace at pair of 168 6 Stars and would be my hard snow skis. So, I want something with great edge hold, but will do better in the crud than the short 6 stars.

Anyone skied both of these skis?

Any other recommendations would be welcome.


Thanks
post #2 of 13
Although the AC4 would handle hardpack better that most ski of its width, I would not consider it a hardpack ski. You would be better served by the Stockli for this purpose.
post #3 of 13
I'm taking the liberty of posting in quotes a PM from a Bear about the XL's. I found it extremely helpful, and seems to correspond with what others here have said about Stormriders, only in far greater detail. I can only add that I've demoed both the 170 and 177 AC4, liked them both, but I fell between the cracks; the 170 got knocked around a little too much, while the 177 was stable but a little ponderous in heavy pow. Enjoy:


"To answer you up front --- Someone at 165lbs with what you describe should be OK on 2005-2006 or 2006-2007(slightly changed?) XL Stormriders lengths 174cm or 164cm. If you want versitility or bumpability go with 164cm. If you want better powder behaviour at higher speeds then 174.


The older XL stormriders (2004 -bright Blue ,red and white with the round compass like insignia at the tip) had a mostly foam core and were stiffer. They scared a lot of people. Especially since people went longer than needed.

Stockli changed the new ones-this is how:

Mostly wood core(Better feel), but the real change is in the extreme of the tip (and tail?). Mostly TIP.

The first 10-15cm of the tip is softer and is actually somewhat pliable. Then you have a huge, strong platform from there, running back underfoot to the tail. The tail again has been made to give a little, smoothing exit.(This is a little different from what you and I are used to in Volkl's which usually have pretty big snap off the tail if you load them. XL's are smoother release)

About the tip: It is the "giving" tip and the big platform that makes this ski.
If you can get your hands on one, try this you will see what I mean. Hold it at the waist in one hand and pull the tip towards you and let go ( Or hit it hard so it vibrates). Try the same with a Volkl or Atomic etc...

You will see that the first 10-15cm of XL's bends easily but when you let go it vibrates back and forth at a much slower frequency and stops quicker than other skis. You’ll see the Xl’s go back and forth 2-3 Slowwwly and stop. No vibrations.
This is because it still has metal and is damp, damp, damp!

The rest of the ski is really beefy.

What this does in real world is that the tip to act almost like shock absorber, smoothing out slop, crud, loose snow, small bumps, small children, or whatever else you might run over. Usually you’d hear soft tip associated with “tip gets deflected in chop”, ”tip flutter at speed” and “ski is imprecise”.

NOT so here because, it is so damp AND it gives you a huge platform also to work with. I think this is where there is some confusion. This ski isn't just fast (what you always hear about them), they are very fast because they are very efficient at absorption and damping (they are fast because they are smooth).

They do NOT behave like Super G on DH boards that plow through stuff but are stiff as rails unless you go 50+mph. they actually have better absorption of terrain (the tip) than Volkl AC3's or 6stars,etc... but are faster and a lot better in soupy, slushy, crud, or anything else you through at them.

I think some people ski these too long and that is when you get comments like " Fast & Smooth but difficult to Turn"

Yea you can get a 184cm and plow through pretty much anything on the mountain, but then you'll have trouble turning if you try to do a measly 3 turns in 500 verts instead of None! But is this all you want to do???
These skis have more to offer than being one-dimensional speed sleds, which is what some do with them.

-------------
I skied these (174cm) on hard pack, through GS course and at high speed and they were fast and just effortless. You can even get decent short turns out of them by pressuring a little in middle of turn. It is not automatic or their "natural" turn, but can be done without a lot of effort.

I also skied them in foot or two of powder (Whistler in morning) and they worked fine. They don't float as well as some others, but float is not be all and end all of powder. (Deep powder I'm sure would be better done with 85-100mm under foot widths any way). I also skied them through the same stuff 3 hours later (March in Whistler) when the powder was now melted to oatmeal consistency and they were even better. You could easily do long and medium turns without a hiccup through small bumps,and piles of gooo.( Rough snow? where?)

I also skied both the 164 and 174 in May20th Whistler conditions (Soft, loose snow, slush)

The 164cm will do short turns unendingly if you stay centered. It will bounce off the sides of tight gullies, will absorb bumps.
164’s Negative over 174cm: You lose float in deep stuff! (And the 174’s were really not made to float) Does it lose stability or trackability in sloppy crud? A little, but I was pleasantly surprised that it was very little. It still worked very well. This could be an issue if you think other skis you tried get bounced too much, but I also think the issue may be related to new ski designs (SEE BELOW) It’s hard to tell, you judge my comments below in point (2).

The weak point of these over other wider skis is they don’t float in powder. You are fine if it is not over a foot & half or 2 feet (there is still a platform in bottom) and they are perfect and a Blast for chopped up stuff, and especially heavier chop ( think whistler, sierra’s, sun baked fresh snow in pm after a foot or two fell, and now it is 35-40 degrees).



Overall, a couple points:

1) Stocklis have a gliding effortless feel that makes them feel like you are hovering over the snow (it is not just smoothness). I have not seen this in other skis. They are special in their feel. Volkl’s used to have a feel of their own in the years past. It was different from Stockli but their own feel also- but that has somewhat dissipated.
2) I do not know Fischers but I can make a couple of observations compared to Volkl and Atomic. 2007 Volkl AC3 felt beefy, with good flex, but it has become very heavy with the Double Grip and binding system. AC4 is similar, even though the are great skis, I think they are chasing after Atomic (Thick beefy profile, big sidecut) and at least the AC3’s become a little dead at longer lengths and a little boardy and can buck you in shorter lengths. Stockli’s are downright “Old school” compared to them and hence don’t score as well in tests, when the newest gizmo wins a lot of times. They are a flat sandwich ski that has less sidecut and likes to make smoother transitions from turn to turn, rather than the high edge angle from one side to high angle on the other that some of the newer “Fat Carver” all mountains (AC3, AC4, Atomic B5, your Fishers- judging from sidecut imensions etc.). If you compare the 6* to the old original 5* (with metal) you will see that the 5* was more playful than the 6*, the thicker core edges changed the 6*’s feel apart from other things. The new skis from Atomic, Volkl, etc are all going in that direction to an extreme. Stockli XL’s DO NOT. What you get with some of the NEWskis is extreme torsion, big sidecut and beefiness that makes them LOCK edge quickly and ride it. This actually combined with the shorter lengths makes them (to me) sometimes too 2x4 feeling in softer snow, and a little “Boxed in”. You have to go with what the sidecut gives you-that is it.. You lose a little of feathering in turns and changing radius (By the way this is wht I prefered the 175cm over the 168cm Volkl 6*).

This is were the Stocklis excel. You can “place them” in the beginning of the turn, and work with feeding in edge angles. They are happier going straight or in the fall line (old school) compared to the Super Super sidecuts Ala Atomic B5, (even maybe your Fischer somewhat?).

3) Please consider that XL’s are not powder skis (only 75 underfoot and narrower than your Fishers in tip and tail), but work well enough in powder, and are great in crud and chop.

4) If you want a lot of versatility and going to ski bumps, go short. I loved the 164 but don’t ski powder at higher speed. If you do 174 will do better in GS turns in powder. 174 will still give you ability to ski steeps, but is a bigger feeling ski."
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
Beyond - thanks.

That was pretty good info.
post #5 of 13
Man, that has to be one of the best ski reviews I've ever read. I love my Stocklis and agree that they just have this "velvet" on snow feel that's hard to describe and hard for other manufacturers to duplicate.

May I ask who sent that PM ski review?
post #6 of 13
Noodler, don't think it's a state secret; the guy's hook was Sepehr. Told me he was having trouble posting long messages to Epic, so could I do PM's. What he said really made sense to me too. I'm a Volkl and Fischer guy who is looking for a change of feel. I've bought a pair of 05 Spirit Pros to replace my Fischer RX8's, which replaced my 6*, and I'm also contemplating new Stormriders versus AC4's. Will keep you posted.
post #7 of 13
StormDay, I could not in a month of Sundays written a a better review of the Stockli Stormrider XLs.

My specs. Good recreational skier (level whatever), mid 40yo, 6' and 200lbs. Skis 15-20 days a year mainly in Australia and occasional trip O/S (Japan this year, Europe next).

I bough a pair of 06/07 AC4's @177cm this year as my crud busting skis for days when I was more off than on piste. I wanted something that didn't get knocked around as much as my 05/06 AC3's @ 170cm. I was really after a pair of the 05/06 AC4's; however, they were just not available, all of last seasons stock being sold out here.

I picked up the AC4's in June, but due to the crap season in OZ, I didn't get to ski them until August. My first impression was these are heavy, second they are stiff. Skiing them reminded me of the 724 EXP that I had skiied a few years ago, the only difference being that with the sidecut, at least I could carve shorter turns. Granted, the conditions of hardpack and ice, were not what I had bought them for, but the ski just did not do it for me. With my AC3's I can load them up and get lots of rebound. Even at 200lbs I could not get the AC4's to bounce back at me. They just felt like stiff heavy skis.

I was looking for some skis for an AT setup and walked into a shop selling Stockli skis. The Stormrider XL's @ 174cm looked the goods for what I wanted to do, so I demoed a pair (alpine setup). I was immediately hooked and had no hesitation in trading in the AC4's.

The Stormrider XL's have very similar specifications to the AC3 except they are much lighter, no doubt due to the absence of any system binding. I have mounted them with Marker M11 Titanium without any plate. The Stormrider and the AC3 ski very much the same, except the Stormrider just seems better in every way. Smoother and damper is a good description. I can carve and scarve the Stromrider without effort. I didn't find the speed limit straightlining a run over frozen crud, they just felt rock solid. I also took them through a GS course at speed and until my technique let me down, I could not fault the edge grip of the skis.

In short, I found the Stormriders awsome. The AC4 did not float my boat.

A word of caution, do not demo the Stormriders unless you are prepared to buy them. You will find them addictive.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
What you get with some of the NEWskis is extreme torsion, big sidecut and beefiness that makes them LOCK edge quickly and ride it. This actually combined with the shorter lengths makes them (to me) sometimes too 2x4 feeling in softer snow, and a little “Boxed in”. You have to go with what the sidecut gives you-that is it.. You lose a little of feathering in turns and changing radius (By the way this is wht I prefered the 175cm over the 168cm Volkl 6*).

This is were the Stocklis excel. You can “place them” in the beginning of the turn, and work with feeding in edge angles. They are happier going straight or in the fall line (old school) compared to the Super Super sidecuts Ala Atomic B5, (even maybe your Fischer somewhat?).
This definately something I found I could do with the Stormrider that I could not do with the AC3s. I was working on some drills including tightening turn radius through the turn. On the AC3s I always ended up with too much weigh over the front of the ski (my instructor said at times the tail of my ski had lost contact with the snow. On the Stormriders I was able to use much more finesse, using subtle changes in pressure, to achive change in turn radius through the turn.
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
thanks for all the input.

Time to start shopping for a stormrider.
post #10 of 13
I agree, the Stormrider is hard to beat. I really liked the AC4, and it is carvy, smooth, relatively damp and somewhat powerful for such a wide ski, but it is still a pretty wide ski, and not as energetic or powerful-feeling (GS-like brute strength) as the Stormrider. 82mm is kind of wide for a hardpack ski anyway-they just don't have the power like the smaller (68-75mm waist models). I really, really am looking forward to skiing that one this winter. I didn't get enough time on the XL last year, but it was really a hoot on the hardpack at big speeds. Just a very fast, stable ski that was smooth and could do all turn radius. The AC4 seemed like it wanted to turn more, with the increased sidecut. Feel wasn't quite as smooth or stable, just a little friendlier overall. I skied a Stockli Laser GS and it was an incredible ski. With the VIST plate, it was way over my head, definitely not for my weight and/or skills, it made my Elan GSX stock look like a junior ski. But the feel was very much similiar to the XL.

Another ski that you may want to check out is the new Contact 11 from Dynastar. That thing had virtually no speed limit and a pretty similiar feel to the XL in terms of smoothness, but maybe without all the muscularity. From what I gathered, it would be pretty versatile, although I only tried it twice, both times on a hard snow day. Maybe a bit under the radar at the moment, but I think it will be a great choice for a versatile hardpack/all arounder.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post
I agree, the Stormrider is hard to beat. I really liked the AC4, and it is carvy, smooth, relatively damp and somewhat powerful for such a wide ski, but it is still a pretty wide ski, and not as energetic or powerful-feeling (GS-like brute strength) as the Stormrider. 82mm is kind of wide for a hardpack ski anyway-they just don't have the power like the smaller (68-75mm waist models). I really, really am looking forward to skiing that one this winter. I didn't get enough time on the XL last year, but it was really a hoot on the hardpack at big speeds. Just a very fast, stable ski that was smooth and could do all turn radius. The AC4 seemed like it wanted to turn more, with the increased sidecut. Feel wasn't quite as smooth or stable, just a little friendlier overall. I skied a Stockli Laser GS and it was an incredible ski. With the VIST plate, it was way over my head, definitely not for my weight and/or skills, it made my Elan GSX stock look like a junior ski. But the feel was very much similiar to the XL.

Another ski that you may want to check out is the new Contact 11 from Dynastar. That thing had virtually no speed limit and a pretty similiar feel to the XL in terms of smoothness, but maybe without all the muscularity. From what I gathered, it would be pretty versatile, although I only tried it twice, both times on a hard snow day. Maybe a bit under the radar at the moment, but I think it will be a great choice for a versatile hardpack/all arounder.
Hey Scott,
Great to have you back! Your insights are always appreciated by we who lurk these forums.
Let us know what lines/models you are carrying this year.
Regards, Rob
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
shopping is done.
525x525px-LL-vbattach994.jpg
post #13 of 13
Very nice. Hope you enjoy them.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Stockli Stormrider XL or 06/07 AC4?