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MA me please!

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Okay, I'm trying to improve my skiing but I need some help. I took some lessons last season and I started to learn how to use my edges but my wife took a video of me and I think I need help. I see things like my feet spreading out during my turn initiation and altough I can see it I don't know if that's okay and if not what to do about it. Anyway I'd really like to here some comments.

Oh, I'm skiing on some atomic M:11 at 165. I'm 52 yrs old and about 145.

post #2 of 17
What sort of boots are those?
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
They are Salomon XWave 8
post #4 of 17
Hello Mr Knees!

I don't have time tonight to do you justice, but I can give you some quick thoughts and some food for thought. You get into some positions during this run as seen in the pic showing the angulation percentage. Another thing I like about this pic is where the snow is coming off the skis - way in front of the bindings. Another thing I like about this skiing is the ability to roll your ankles to get the skis on edge.

Like Ryan (see his MA in this thread), you tend to start your turns with an up move and you get forced into the back seat and then must lift the inside ski in the middle of your turn.

Like Ryan, I'd like to see you finish your turns more and get the hips more involved in turn initiation instead of the up move. My recommendations in his thread apply almost equally as well to you. Especially work on the indoor exercises.

Here are some stills I captured out of the video. I don't have time to annotate them tonight, but some of the other bears can fill in for me?

1 2 3 4

5 6



post #5 of 17
and one more pic

post #6 of 17
little "A" framey. Get your lateral alignment checked, you look undercanted.

You seem to have good basic skills to build on! I wouldn't worry about "width" of your stance. I'll bet getting your boot angles dialed in will do wonders.

Check out ESA in Aspen or Tahoe. A week with some great coaching and boot work will help you to the next level!

post #7 of 17
Thanks Bud!
That's what pics 4 and 11 were for.
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Excellent! Thank you. I've never had my boot alignment checked. I've always had much bigger issues to deal with......I thought. We spent a good deal of time at Big Sky. I'll have to find someone out there to check out.

post #9 of 17

MA for mnbadknees


Great video of your skiing. Here are my thoughts on how to start moving your already strong skiing to the next level.

1. Do get your boot alignment checked as suggested by others in this thread.

2. Like the Rusty, I too noticed that your first move when starting a new turn tends to be "up."

3. Work on releasing your edges by tipping/and or turning your outside foot ( which will soon become the new inside foot) on to its little toe edge. If you were completing a turn to the left and about to start a turn to the right you would tip the right foot to get the turn started. The left foot WILL follow. The outcome will be that your initial move will be lateral,( rather than "up") which will allow your mass to flow into the next turn (resulting in better balance). This move will also allow for earlier edge engagement, one of the chacteristics of higher end skiing.

4. Take a lesson or two. There are drills to help you re-pattern your transition movements, but this is better done under some supervision at first.

5. Look upon learning this new move as a goal for at least a season.

Good luck and have a great season.

post #10 of 17
Thanks for putting up vid mnbadknees, I appreciate the opportunity to look at some great skiing.

I think you show some really fun skiing in that it appears your intent is to go fast and get some performance out of your skis, which is great.

Now for what to work on, I am going to jump on therusty's bandwagon here as I see much the same that he does. 1.) A general lack of finish to your turns, 2.) An unecessary vertical movement at transition that takes away from your intended direction of travel down the hill.

My suggestion for geting on to a path is patience turns. This is where you make the transition from one turn to another painfully long and slow while creating finish to the turns. Slowing down the movements at transition will help you to identify how coordinated you are with your simulatneous edge release and how much you are able to re-center your balance before entering the next turn.

You can accomplish patience turns by counting 1....2.....3.....4....5 as you travel across the hill in your transition (1 being the exit from the fall line of the last turn and 5 being the entry into the fall line of the next turn). One way to play with this exercise is to release both skis from edge at 3 and continue to travel across the hill (at a slight downhill angle) on flat skis. This may help you to create a more effective re-centering of your balance (ankles flexed, hips over feet) before you begin your next turn.

All in all, mostly effective skiing with just a bit to clean up to really rip those skis.

Thanks again and I hope that helps and makes sense.

post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by mnbadknees View Post
Excellent! Thank you. I've never had my boot alignment checked. I've always had much bigger issues to deal with......I thought. We spent a good deal of time at Big Sky. I'll have to find someone out there to check out.

Oh boy, that should be "spend a good deal of time at Big Sky". Sheesh.
post #12 of 17

What everybody else said...

...actually pretty good skiing, pretty good turn shapes. Everybody else talked about the finish of the turn...true, but I almost think it's more the transition phase and the initiation of the next turn. More forward pressure at the beginning of the turn, which'll make your skis hook up better and more positively at the initiation. Then maintain/control the pressure through the middle of the turn, and then...as Ron LeMaster says...at the end of the turn, your job is to stop turning! Basically, that means to take pressure off. If you get early pressure forward, and maintain/adjust it through the middle, and release it completely at the end, you'll have a much cleaner, more defined turn...which is not just an aesthetic thing, it'll let you ski hard snow/steeps and all kinds of variable conditions better.

Also do some one ski exercises (like, start a turn, pick up the inside ski, balance on the outside...that kind of stuff) to get more on the outside ski.

I'd also go run some gates (with a coach, of course). That's always my advice, but your line/turn shape and overall approach look like the way racers approach free skiing...
post #13 of 17
Looking at Rusty's still shots and the video again, It looks like you are on a relatively flat and short slope. As a result the vertical movement you demonstrate just looks like you are trying to make the turns more dynamic by trying to create some turning forces. I doubt these movements would exist if you were on steeper slopes, which would also allow your turns to be more completed and skis to bend more readily.

One of the symptoms of being undercanted is the little toe edges are "over" canted if you will. This means it is more difficult to release them as urged above. I see excellent movements on your part! Try putting 6-8 layers of duct tape on the inside edge of each binding and see how that feels and looks. You will find the little toe edge releases easier and the new inside edge hooks up sooner which both aid turn entry. (of course this is a temporary experiment and tape should not be left in the system for any length of time)

Then if you are not already an instructor, apply at the ski school for a job!

post #14 of 17
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
.. but I almost think it's more the transition phase and the initiation of the next turn.

We don't disagree with this. The reason we emphasize finishing the previous turn is that it make it much easier to learn the proper release movements by getting the skis more across the hill and the upper body into a more countered position before initiating the release. Try the exercises I gave to Ryan with your feet at < 90 degree angle and you'll see what I'm talking about. Once you know how to do the moves, you can do them at lower angles. But you can feel the power of the movements much easier at higher angles.
post #15 of 17

My first attemt to MA someone's skiing here.
Others provide a great suggestions and comments are right on the money. I want to add little:
As many said you move up in transition and I believe as a result come to your edges too fast. After this you appear to be in somewhat static park-and-ride position and finish your turns too early not to be static for long time. I think I have very similar problem.
I think what may help is slower transition and initiation of the turn, try to continue flexing your ankles during the turn and slowly release pressure at the end. It will give you a better turn shape and may cure some backseat problems.

Overall very solid skiing.

post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 
Okay, thanks everybody. Now I have some specific things to work on. I appreciate the comments. I love this place.

post #17 of 17
Ok, here we go with some annotation....

1 2 3 4
Pics 2-4 show turn initiation with the up movement. See how both knees have straightened out and how the waist line has gotten progressively higher? The CM has moved from inside of the old turn to between the skis in pic 4. But for where the skis are in the fall line, we want the CM to be inside of the new turn by pic 4. In pic 4 you can clearly see the A frame that Bud was talking about. Notice how flat the skis are. Also notice that the feet are wider than shoulder width apart. As your feet get wider than shoulder width, they should roll up on their inside edges. But here your feet are flat. Adding canting would get your feet into the "right" position.

5 6
From pic 4, you have to step off the outside ski to keep moving your weight into the inside of the new turn. That right ski just does not want to turn yet because you've only got your weight over it in pic 5. In pic 6 you've finally gotten there and you're in relatively good position (feet are a little wide, but now we know why). Pic 1 is the same frame as pic 6, but showing the measure of angulation. 155 is a good number. You could get better by getting the hands a little more level, but you'll never get there until you get your canting straightened out.

Here the weight is in a balanced position. We can see the elbows in front of the hips, the knees and ankles flexed and snow flying off from in front of the skis. We'd like to see a little less tip lead here - hint tip lead should match counter, but this is not something I would worry about yet. The problem here is that this is where the skis start accelerating on you.

Here you can see the butt behind the heels and the left ski being raised for a left turn.

One of the things we check for is to see if the toes, knees and nose line up. The red line of the left shows almost, but not quite. The red line on the right shows a lot of body mass behind the heels. To quote my good buddy Astro: "Ruh Roh". See that hunched over back (yellow line). From this position, imagine trying to show your belly button to the wind. You've got to stand up taller and bend the knees more. This will bring the knees and the nose forward. Do you see that blue line and the 104 degree measurement? If you can get that number under 90 in this point of the turn, you'll be able to get pressure on the ski tips and get them to be doing more turning for you instead of you having to do all of the work with that ski in mid air. A lot of people get in this trouble because as the skis enter the fall line they accelerate. As the feet get ahead and the butt gets behind, the head has to lean in to stay in balance. You've got to move that belly button to keep the hips over the feet as the skis accelerate. The further you get behind, the more delay you'll have getting your skis to bite during turn initiation and the more you'll have to cheat (e.g. lifting the skis). Pic 7 shows where you need to start the belly button move.

Here you can see the butt behind the heels and the right ski being raised for a right turn. (Just to prove you've got the same thing going on in both directions)

It looks like you already got the message, but hopefully this MA helps you a little more as well as the lurkers. Oh - and if anyone has any corrections, please speak up. I'm only a level 2 and still learning.
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