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Hucking cliffs, rocks, and terrain. - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTmind View Post
OK, so I definitely hope I get some powder days when out in Colorado, so I can learn powder.

Now I would love to huck off some small things definitely. I am sure if I am able to ski powder, the small things no problem.
My advice is to take you time. Your first obstacle is going to be skiing powder. My guess is this will take up most of your efforts and the hucking is going to be slim and far between once reality sets in.

However that being said, speed is your friend, knowing how far you will travel and where you will land is important. Experiance is the only way to acheive this.

Hands down and in front, knees up in chest, look for the landing and extend towards it and DO NOT TRY AND SLOW DOWN RIGHT AWAY !. let yourself land and run, then worry about speed checking.

I know from experiance your first reaction is going to be HOLY CRAP slow down as soon as you land and this isn't going to help. I try to remember as long as you are in the air is how long it usually take to regain composure and then you can turn and slow.

So make sure you hucks have good run outs, and relax, be loose, let it flow, don't fight it.
post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonse View Post
The biggest problem with launching something is acceleration.
Actually, I'd say the biggest issue to deal with is decceleration. It's the sudden decceleration that will break you. In my experience, the bulk of the discussions that occur at the top of a huge huck center around the "how best to land" question. i.e. Is the landing steep enough to stomp it on your feet cleanly? Or is a hip check or back slap necessary? Is the snow deep enough? How fast are you going to be going after you land? etc. etc.

Visualization is key. If you can't visualize yourself in every moment of the huck in your mind...clean take off, composed & controlled air time, proper landing for the situation, runout....then think about waiting or building up confidence on something smaller.
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by HookedOnWinter View Post
All this symbolism about flying into the unknown but feeling confident.
to be honest, hucking a cliff shouldn't be about flying into the unknown. It sure sounds romantic but you better know exactly what you're hucking into and out of. For big cliffs you need to study it, wait for conditions to be right, and be confident that you did your homework.
post #34 of 52
I have a very odd perspective on this, because I've been jumping/hucking forever, but rarely ski out west.....all of my hucking is on the east coast. I've jumped to icy, flat landings more times than I care to think about.

A few points to make. 15 feet is tiny if it's non technical and to a deep powder landing, but it's huge if it's to a flat, hard landing. Would you jump out a tall 2nd story window onto concrete? No? Yeah, me neither...you're asking for trouble. 15 feet is pretty big by east coast standards - most cliffs that size around here are usually pretty technical, either due to harder snow, or have lots of trees or rocks in the landing. 20-25 feet is quite big, and 30+ feet is huge and quite rare....the only hittable 30+ footer's I know are at sugarbush and stowe (and hunter, sort of), but I'm sure there are others. Supposedly one of the Meatheads has a 100 footer that he's waiting for the right snow to hit. I'm itching to hit the 30 footer next to the castle rock chair at sugarbush. Biggest I've hit is about 20 feet to dead flat, in about 18" of light snow (big mistake!!), and one that was about 15 feet vertical (plus about 30+ feet distance out from takeoff) to packed snow. In normal freeskiing, I often hit very technical 5-10 footers with technical crappy landings. Not a dickwave, just a frame of reference.

I suggest learning how to jump in general in a controlled situation, before taking it to cliffs. Jumping to hardpack is virtually the same thing as dropping a cliff to hardpack....you have to stay in control, land on your feet, and ride it out. Start by hitting small tables in the park, and then work your way up. Hitting a 35 foot table in the park in hard snow conditions is fairly similar to hitting a non-technical 10 foot cliff with a pitched landing of packed powder. So, I would recommend being very comfortable in the air and coming down before you take it to a cliff with a difficult take-off or landing, where you have to take off and land in control.
post #35 of 52
HS, whaddaya think about "leapers" first?

post #36 of 52
Thread Starter 
Great advice everyone.

For age I am 30, so at this point Im not looking for anything huge. Just the small stuff for fun. I am not into the terrain park at all. Around the east coast if I find little hits on the trails, I will usually jump those. But, the flights seem really flat. More distance then air. No real drop, more or less just waiting for my skis to come onto the pack so I can turn again, or finish a turn.

What I am looking forward too/hoping is that I can pick up powder fast enough, that I will be able to find some small rock on the way down, and on my next run down be able to ski right off of it and keep going. I see people do this in videos, and pictures, and it looks awesome. If there is powder out in Vail/Beaver Creek while I am there. I will definitely take some lessons. I am planning on taking a few out there anyways. Instructors out here for me, have really been bad luck, except for one older guy at Whitetail. He helped me make the transition into my shaped skis. I'm sure if I ran into him again, he would probably yell at me some more for keeping my legs together.

If any of you are going to be out in Vail area around Jan 13 to the 21st, let me know.
post #37 of 52
Let me repeat one tip I picked up somewhere on these forums: Big half pipes are great for practicing dropping in on cornices. You don't necessarily have to do anything respectable on the far wall, just practice your entry.
post #38 of 52
Vail should be good- in the bowls there are a bunch of smaller cliffs/rocks that will get you real comfortable. The comfort level with landing in my mind is so key. If you go off a jump and know whats on the other side, youll be so much more comfortable. Then you just hit it. Have some confidence- and if you are having trouble on the smaller stuff maybe its not so bad to just stay on the ground. Cornices are a great place to start too- gets you used to the impending landing a little bit, but once youre confident in your ability to land (and have checked out your line and landing) just have the confidence so you dont get a tight ass and screw up
post #39 of 52
i hit one of my first hucks in vail last season, a 10 footer in one of the bowls, this was before i knew what i was doing and i dropped my arms back and washed out the landing and double ejected. embaracing, but a learning experience! make sure you're ready for everything, don't let the take off surprise you or you will lose balance/ control and thus crash on the landing, stay focused! its an amazing feeling to be crusing down a run then launching off a 10 ft rock and keep skiing!
post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato View Post
Air is a function of age (I'm not referring to "gas").

Ever notice how babies and little kids love being tossed in air. It's the biggest kick there is.

Young people, especially young males, are exhilarated by the experience of "air".

But, it changes, gradually. I remember the day I could no longer stomach carnival rides. It's an approximate correlate.

Eventually, the desire to throw myself off cliffs began to subside. Others I know have mentioned the same.

Nature, it seems, programs people's desires to change, based upon function. She designed us to age, so I guess She also programmed us to survive, by altering the "thrill meter".

Anyone remember that choice Olin ad, with the burly, crusty dude, saying:
"You want big air, kid? Pull my finger."

i dunno, i remember the first people i saw huck things were my like 40 something year old ski coaches. How old is Chris Davenport or a ton of other close to 40 year old pro skiers that stil go for it?



in regards to advice on how to huck, don't start with cliffs, just start trying to jump off of rollers and things. i say this because you need speed and forward momentum to make things smooth, but your natural tendency with cliffs will be to try and go off them as slow as possibly, which will end up just messing you up.

oh, and at that TGR site, they have a forum too, check it out, they have more of a "hucking" type mindset than the bears, and theres tons of great stuff, but i would suggest just lurking for a while and not posting a thread like this, they'll tear you to peices, they don't have the manners of the bears either.
post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
i say this because you need speed and forward momentum to make things smooth, but your natural tendency with cliffs will be to try and go off them as slow as possibly, which will end up just messing you up.
true...but keep in mind that every cliff is different. There may be some where you do indeed need to roll off as slow as possible. A cliff with a small transition zone that can easily be overshot is an example. Or possibly a cliff that is slightly overhanging. There were a few drops we did this past season where we were mainly concerned with rolling off as sloooow as possible. Sometimes less speed is needed.

Granted, "starter' hucks probably shouldn't fall into that category, but just wanted to add that $.02
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
true...but keep in mind that every cliff is different. There may be some where you do indeed need to roll off as slow as possible. A cliff with a small transition zone that can easily be overshot is an example. Or possibly a cliff that is slightly overhanging. There were a few drops we did this past season where we were mainly concerned with rolling off as sloooow as possible. Sometimes less speed is needed.

Granted, "starter' hucks probably shouldn't fall into that category, but just wanted to add that $.02
Yea, I doubt you'd want to hit hospital air with any more speed that you could help. Some of what I was saying might be just me too. For some reason, if I feel like I am jumping I can keep my form, but if I feel like I am just falling, everything falls appart. I also just think you should learn to stomp before you learn to hip check.
post #43 of 52
Only you can judge your skills and your confidence level. If they're not there, don't do it. However, like many others have said, at the 5-10 foot level it's going to be more about confidence than anything else. MAKE SURE you have a clear runout (safety first) then have some fun! Obviously you will feel a bit nervous, but what's the worst that could happen off a 5 footer? Double E cartwheel? They can actually be fun in soft enough snow

One thing I noticed with newbs is the tendancy to JUMP rather than just ski off. I don't know what the "technically correct" way to do it is, but for me it's always worked a lot better to simply ski off with a good amount of speed, tuck into a relaxed and ready (centered) position, and prepare for landing. Those who have a pronounced "jump" often seem thrown off balance when in the air.

I'm not a pro but I have my fair share of fun. Go for it!
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
Some of what I was saying might be just me too. For some reason, if I feel like I am jumping I can keep my form, but if I feel like I am just falling, everything falls appart
Yeah, I find it more difficult to hold a tight form when "falling" as oppossed to jumping with speed off something too. I find you definitely have to be more concious of it for some reason.
post #45 of 52
i think that makes perfectly good sense. the act of falling is much more uncontrolled than an intentional jump.

also a low speed jump versus a high speep jump (a jump being something you went off on purpose) would have an effect on how easy it is to keep stable though it.
post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
Let me repeat one tip I picked up somewhere on these forums: Big half pipes are great for practicing dropping in on cornices. You don't necessarily have to do anything respectable on the far wall, just practice your entry.
Learn from my mistakes. If you have never been in a big half pipe, spend a little time in it before doing the jumping for air thing. The first time I ever tried a half pile, way back when they first started to appear, I was just skiing along on on a moderately steep blue on my SGs and saw one on a trail that split off from the main trail, and thought "Ok, I'll try that." I don't know how fast I was going, but me thinks I should have slowed down a bit. I was a little worried about jumping out of it into the trees, so I gave an extra good push off the lip. I got a lot of air higher than the lip which was fine, but I also over-did the push off and landed in the middle of the pipe, which was not fine, nor soft. Both my heels were sore for about a week or two.
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
... before doing the jumping for air thing. .
Otherwise known as "popping"

yes, if you pop too hard off the lip in a halfpipe you'll overshoot the transition and wreck yourself in the flats.
post #48 of 52
Yeah, and if you don't pop at all, you stand a good chance of wrecking on the top of the wall and being dismantled as you fall into the pipe.
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
Yeah, and if you don't pop at all, you stand a good chance of wrecking on the top of the wall and being dismantled as you fall into the pipe.

Actually, most of the halfpipes I've seen have such a clean, icy (machine ground) edge that you could just ooze over the edge. So you have to pretend the edge might be ragged.

Anyway, I'm not saying a half-pipe is a perfect simulation of a cornice -- but its the best we have around here (East). It is good practice for the basics, so when you get to the "big trip" you are already part way up the learning curve. I've found it good for the pyschological aspects of going over the edge, and for getting my hands and weight forward. It's not really much use for landing, since you have to stay small or miss the transition.
post #50 of 52
By the way, I have limited "real" cornice experience, which is why I'm practicing. I've never gone above about 6 or 8 feet (I didn't go back with a tape measure), and that was into a very forgiving landing zone.

I found the cornice thread a few months ago inspiring.

I'm hoping to find some practice spots of gradually increasing difficulty on one of my West trips this year.
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
I have a very odd perspective on this, because I've been jumping/hucking forever, but rarely ski out west.....all of my hucking is on the east coast. I've jumped to icy, flat landings more times than I care to think about.

A few points to make. 15 feet is tiny if it's non technical and to a deep powder landing, but it's huge if it's to a flat, hard landing. Would you jump out a tall 2nd story window onto concrete? No? Yeah, me neither...you're asking for trouble. 15 feet is pretty big by east coast standards - most cliffs that size around here are usually pretty technical, either due to harder snow, or have lots of trees or rocks in the landing. 20-25 feet is quite big, and 30+ feet is huge and quite rare....the only hittable 30+ footer's I know are at sugarbush and stowe (and hunter, sort of), but I'm sure there are others. Supposedly one of the Meatheads has a 100 footer that he's waiting for the right snow to hit. I'm itching to hit the 30 footer next to the castle rock chair at sugarbush. Biggest I've hit is about 20 feet to dead flat, in about 18" of light snow (big mistake!!), and one that was about 15 feet vertical (plus about 30+ feet distance out from takeoff) to packed snow. In normal freeskiing, I often hit very technical 5-10 footers with technical crappy landings. Not a dickwave, just a frame of reference.

I suggest learning how to jump in general in a controlled situation, before taking it to cliffs. Jumping to hardpack is virtually the same thing as dropping a cliff to hardpack....you have to stay in control, land on your feet, and ride it out. Start by hitting small tables in the park, and then work your way up. Hitting a 35 foot table in the park in hard snow conditions is fairly similar to hitting a non-technical 10 foot cliff with a pitched landing of packed powder. So, I would recommend being very comfortable in the air and coming down before you take it to a cliff with a difficult take-off or landing, where you have to take off and land in control.
Finally someone who doesn't ski like a little schoolgirl!

When i was a little kid, about 4-5 years old, I hucked 10 feet corniches and stomped the landings...: Just make sure know the landing and believe in yourself! It was more believing and less knowing then...

Nowadays i have no problem dropping 10-12 feet out in the groomed if the ladning aint to flat, it's just like hitting the park!
post #52 of 52
MA on hucking?

My hands could probably be lower & more forward, down by my feet, near the front of my toes, to help keep my weight forward. (i.e. Check out the position that Dan Treadway is in in nearly every one of his published photos)

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