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Softshells in the Northeast - specifics? - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuma View Post
One things for sure with all this, nothings free. Less nakedness/breathability = better wind/water resistance...
I just purchased a Cloudveil Rayzar and was a little concerned with how windproof it would be when I saw how thin the jacket really was. Today was the first day I wore it here in Chicago and I was extremely impressed. The passage way between my work's building and the parking garage acts like a wind tunnel and with a cold wind strong enough to make walking difficult I didn't notice any chill. I'm very happy with it.
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
In looking at this jacket again, more closely, I cannot see this being a knock off. This is tight, it has the SOS hangtags, the eVent tags, the lables are all highest quality, it has the SOS embossment and all of the SOS fine details. There is no way this is a knockoff that could be sold profitably for $60.00.
I just purchased the same jacket for $60. I am hoping the jacket I get is as good as the one you got.

Chris
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
In looking at this jacket again, more closely, I cannot see this being a knock off. This is tight, it has the SOS hangtags, the eVent tags, the lables are all highest quality, it has the SOS embossment and all of the SOS fine details. There is no way this is a knockoff that could be sold profitably for $60.00.
With today's overseas manufacturing supply lines, it can very well be made in the same factory with the same material by the exact same people that make the real jackets. Tags and labels mean absolutely nothing as far as authenticity. The authenticity part isn't necessarily in the jacket itself, but when it's made and for who. It might be the exact same jacket, except made afterhours and sold under-the-table to a third party distributer. Legitimate SOS jackets aren't even sold in China, let alone finding them on clearance. As far as profitability goes, $60 is a huge markup. Don't underestimate the power of cheap labour...
post #34 of 46
Thread Starter 
This sparked my interest, and I just did a bit of research. It seems a lot of times, like Voltron said, the knockoffs are actually made in the real factory. A couple sites I was looking at were talking about east vs. west cultural differences in relation to morals and attitudes toward this sort of thing.

Take the Nort Face, for example--I guess they're having a big problem with this. You outsource production to China, and typically have to find factory supervisors from China. There will be a Western overseer there 9-5, or even more often once a week or once a month, and the Chinese overseer will essentially re-open the factory and keep it running late. They'll also use seconds and mis-state production figures from the day shifts, and turn around and sell whatever excess they create as pirated goods. Finally, the pirates will set up their own factory and actually use the same suppliers as the legit company, and produce essentially the same product at their own factory.

Some of the sites were a bit on the...shall we say...conspiratorial side of the spectrum, but these points were brought up a couple times.

Interesting. It sounds like there's a fairly good chance of getting "legit" pirated goods.
post #35 of 46
For me the cut of the patagonia sycthe jacket was horrible. Too stiff, in the neck it was extremely uncomfortable and the cuffs were poor.

Arc'teryx's cut fits me well. The Gamma SV is Fall to Spring
Gamma MX is lighter so Spring to Fall
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by icer View Post
This sparked my interest, and I just did a bit of research. It seems a lot of times, like Voltron said, the knockoffs are actually made in the real factory. A couple sites I was looking at were talking about east vs. west cultural differences in relation to morals and attitudes toward this sort of thing.

Take the Nort Face, for example--I guess they're having a big problem with this. You outsource production to China, and typically have to find factory supervisors from China. There will be a Western overseer there 9-5, or even more often once a week or once a month, and the Chinese overseer will essentially re-open the factory and keep it running late. They'll also use seconds and mis-state production figures from the day shifts, and turn around and sell whatever excess they create as pirated goods. Finally, the pirates will set up their own factory and actually use the same suppliers as the legit company, and produce essentially the same product at their own factory.

Some of the sites were a bit on the...shall we say...conspiratorial side of the spectrum, but these points were brought up a couple times.

Interesting. It sounds like there's a fairly good chance of getting "legit" pirated goods.
I think that this is one of the prices a company will pay for outsourcing jobs to places like China, Tiawan, Bangladesh... Please do not get me wrong, I am a firm capitalist and understand a company moving production to these areas. I just hate to hear that same company complain or lament the fact that management and workers are not as scrupulous or as easy to oversee as in the states.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl View Post
I just purchased a Cloudveil Rayzar and was a little concerned with how windproof it would be when I saw how thin the jacket really was. Today was the first day I wore it here in Chicago and I was extremely impressed. The passage way between my work's building and the parking garage acts like a wind tunnel and with a cold wind strong enough to make walking difficult I didn't notice any chill. I'm very happy with it.
The Rayzar is an excellent softshell. Wanted to buy one - it just didnt fit. That being said - the wb-400 - which is the heavier/thicker schoeller material, as compared to Rayzar, is warmer, higher wind resistance and less breathable... trade offs.

Check this out from Beyond Fleece:

Cold Fusion: wb-400
Cold Play: Schoeller Dryskin / Rayzar




Relative Minimum Temp
Wind protection
Cold Fusion Soft Shell (M / W)
25 F
98%
Cold Play Soft Shell (M / W)
35 F
70%
post #38 of 46
I just recieved my second SOS jacket from this guy (he listed it in red after I ordered a blue one). This jacket is for real. I cannot see getting a nicer uninsulated jacket than this for this price, less than $100.00 shipped. It is truely top shelf. Also as far as sizing, they are dead on. If you buy one, you will not be disapointed.
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
I have one of these SOS jackets, it is well built and I see no clue that it is a knock-off.
it can be hard to tell the difference, as Voltron said. however, in the case of this SOS jacket, it is almost certainly a knockoff of another brand jacket that simply got badged SOS. the style doesn't fit with the SOS line...check their website...and i can find no evidence that SOS ever used eVent. then add the fact that (1) the guy seems to have a whole truckload in every size and color, (2) the price is too low even for clearance, and (3) that he's a KNOWN dealer of knockoffs. can there be any doubt?

but don't worry about it! if it works well and looks good, who cares? enjoy it!
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Madison View Post
it can be hard to tell the difference, as Voltron said. however, in the case of this SOS jacket, it is almost certainly a knockoff of another brand jacket that simply got badged SOS. the style doesn't fit with the SOS line...check their website...and i can find no evidence that SOS ever used eVent. then add the fact that (1) the guy seems to have a whole truckload in every size and color, (2) the price is too low even for clearance, and (3) that he's a KNOWN dealer of knockoffs. can there be any doubt?

but don't worry about it! if it works well and looks good, who cares? enjoy it!
With SOS embossed in the cuffs, three triangles (SOS trademarks) up the zipper seam and SOS in the drawstring rivots, somoene went all out to make this knockoff or relable another jacket. :
post #41 of 46
Thread Starter 
onyxjl - the rayzar was actually one of my top choices going into this discussion. STP has them for about 160 + 20% off with a coupon + $10 off with google = good deal for me! I'm still leaning that way because I'm not having much luck finding a good, clearance wb-400 softshell.

Kuma - Thanks for more informative posts. Do you have a link to beyondfleece that can quantify that statement? Where do they get minimum temp from? Is that with no layers? I was browsing around and couldn't find where you pulled that from or what the criteria were.

By the way--Now I'm screwed. Now I NEED one of those beyond vayu plus jackets...or maybe the cold fusion. Heck, it's only $319...with all the pockets I could ever want...and the material I've decided is best...and a zippered hood...Thanks Kuma...Thanks a lot

Right before I saw that site I did actually just pull the trigger on a patagonia scythe for $110. It was on ebay, looked like a sweet deal...It's getting shipped right now and I'll see how it works. If it doesn't, then it's either the cloudveil rayzor or beyondfleece for me!
post #42 of 46
Thread Starter 
CanadaSteep...I heard mixed reviews on the cuffs on the scythe. I think I'm going to have to wait and see if I like the zippers...

Arcteryx fits me well also. Other than the neck/zippers, were you happy with the scythe?
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
With SOS embossed in the cuffs, three triangles (SOS trademarks) up the zipper seam and SOS in the drawstring rivots, somoene went all out to make this knockoff or relable another jacket. :
That's doesn't mean anything. When you have a government and culture that's basically apathetic toward pirating, that only begins to describe how far some people will go...
post #44 of 46
I am thinking these fell of the back of a ric-shaw on the way to the docks for shipment .
post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by icer View Post

Kuma - Thanks for more informative posts. Do you have a link to beyondfleece that can quantify that statement?

http://beyondfleece.com/faq/


Regarding your other questions - give em a call. They are very nice and helpful. Have heard good things about their products!
post #46 of 46
Thread Starter 
It'd make sense to look under "faq" huh?? :
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