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I hate moguls - Page 3

post #61 of 133
I love bumps, but this was not always the case. When i first learned to snowboard i had a friend (also a snowboarder) who was very much into bumps. (i hated them) We were pretty equal in most other respects but he would always own me in the bumps. After chasing him down bump run after bump run i gradually began to figure it out. Now i consider myself pretty good on the bumps (especially for a snowboarder, most of whom tend to avoid bumps for some reason) I think it has really helped me on all kinds of terrain. The variability, and intensity of bumps requires skills that i think transfer well to all aspects of the mountain. I think i am much better at everything from trees to pipe because of the time i spent learning how to ride moguls.
Basically bumps are not only great fun in and of themselves but once you get them down, you tend to own all parts of the mountain even more then you did before. Winter Park is a great place to ski bumps i have never taken a lesson there but i imagine that there bump lessons are excellent.
Bumps are great.
Have fun.
post #62 of 133
I am not an advanced skier and have skied bumps when I've accidentally stumbled on them...but would like to improve and to "see them as an opportunity" as opposed to avoiding them like the plague. Any suggestions for good runs at particular Tahoe resorts to practice on as a beginning bump skier?

Thanks in advance...great thread..no wonder it has 5 stars!
post #63 of 133
Gosh, I understand some skiers not enjoying moguls, but
not enjoying powder? Or better yet, "Magazine Cover Quality" powder, are you kidding me? That is simply beyond my ski comprehension. Here in the PNW, and specifically the magnificent heavy and deep deep powder days of Mt. Baker ... why that is reason enough to live another day, reason to be inspired, reason to call in .... umm - sick, reason to postpone most anything I am doing to drive that short 70 minutes to the top, reason to be A-L-I-V-E - well, anyway ... I think you might see where I am headed with this response! Man, now you've got me going, when can I go skiing again?
post #64 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowbirdDevotee View Post
Remember, skiing is done with your poles. Are you focusing on making nice pole plants, ALL great skiers make the right pole plants, without that you will be sunk in the bumps.
I don't agree. I ski all the time without my poles and can ski bumps just fine without making any pole plants.
post #65 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I cannot for the life of me learn or even want to learn to ski moguls. I consider myself to be a pretty good skier, I can take just about any trail in resonably good form and at high speeds, but moguls stop me in my tracks. It looks dangerous, seems like too much work, and most of all I cant see myself going fast doing them. In my mind I envision hyperflexing my knees and good-bye season and hello lifetime of pain...from one skier to the next what does this all mean? Can I ever call myself an advanced skier without mastering the moguls?

For that matter, I had one true deep, magazine cover quality, powder day in my life and I hated that as well and found myself in the back seat and tired as all hell.
your not a good skier if you cant ski bump.....

your not a good skier unless you can powder.....

FYI your probably not a good skier, but you can always get better.

A quote I use to have in my sig

"its not that you cant ski the bumps its that you can ski and the bumps prove it.
post #66 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahPowderPig View Post
I don't agree. I ski all the time without my poles and can ski bumps just fine without making any pole plants.
I dont think its needed but I still have yet to see a skier who could actually make good turns with out poles.
post #67 of 133
also to all you people who talk about snowboarder messing up bumps...

just ski them differently I bet I wouldnt sit there and complain about vut up snowboarder bumps I would just double what I could and mach though them, speed and air are your friends on so called mess up moguls.
post #68 of 133

Amen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcarey View Post
Think of a mogul as an opportunity and not an obstacle!!

Terry
^^^ Well said! ^^^

post #69 of 133
Actually, I admire RR for speaking honestly about his opinion of bumps and powder…I don't think this is a troll pitch...he likes what he likes. Certainly this is a refreshing change from those ‘masters’ who venture off a groomer to be heard saying ‘I don’t have my bump skis’ or ‘I don’t have my powder skis’ or ‘I ate too much at lunch’ or ‘My goggles are fogging’ or ‘I think there are rocks out there and I just tuned my boards’ [I like that one] or ‘my compression shorts just snapped’ [OK, so I have not actually heard that one, but I’m prepared for it]…
post #70 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
also to all you people who talk about snowboarder messing up bumps...

just ski them differently I bet I wouldnt sit there and complain about vut up snowboarder bumps I would just double what I could and mach though them, speed and air are your friends on so called mess up moguls.
Where I worked last year, all the old-timers complained about how the tele skiers messed up the bumps, I'd look at the bump runs, the teleiers were doing round turns, most of the alpine skiers were doing the death (side) slip.

[Edit: Almost forgot], Nice skiing yesterday, Josh.
post #71 of 133
Even a good intermediate skier can ski the bumps with proper training. My wife struggled for a long time in the bumps. One day she joined a clinic, and by the end was sliing the bumps like a pro.
post #72 of 133

Skiing Bumps

See next post
post #73 of 133

Learning to Love Moguls

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiersjp View Post
Even a good intermediate skier can ski the bumps with proper training. My wife struggled for a long time in the bumps. One day she joined a clinic, and by the end was sliing the bumps like a pro.
Which clinic did she join?
post #74 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I cannot for the life of me learn or even want to learn to ski moguls. I consider myself to be a pretty good skier, I can take just about any trail in resonably good form and at high speeds, but moguls stop me in my tracks. It looks dangerous, seems like too much work, and most of all I cant see myself going fast doing them. In my mind I envision hyperflexing my knees and good-bye season and hello lifetime of pain...from one skier to the next what does this all mean? Can I ever call myself an advanced skier without mastering the moguls?

For that matter, I had one true deep, magazine cover quality, powder day in my life and I hated that as well and found myself in the back seat and tired as all hell.
Its nice to see this thread revived. I wonder if RR has made any breakthroughs in bumps or in pow-pow since last year.

In response to the OP... A few years ago I was basic just like you arcing turns all day, loving speed, afraid of bumps, unsure in pow, but stoked on skiing. One day I realized that I wanted to be where I wanted to be I would have to learn to ski bumps well. Once I got my equipment issues ironed out it took about 2 seasons skiing bumps a little bit almost every day and I had a break through. The skilll I learned in those two seasons well... I am a much better skier than I was 3 years ago.

Skiing bumps isn't hard on the body if you do it right and you can ski quickly in bumps. In fact you have to be quick in bumps--Quick footed and dynamic. Thats what bump skiing is, its making a turn quickly trying to keep in rythm, following the terrain, finding your line, seeing your line, picking your line, and then skiing your line. If you want to be able to ski any run anywhere any time then learning how to ski bumps will do lots to help you get there.
post #75 of 133
Quote:
Keep your hands out in front and down the fall line at ALL TIMES
This is the best adviuce of all. Try this, too: when you're learning, only seek out the bumps when conditions are optimal. Sun helps (you'd be amazed at how much more reactive you are when you can easily see two, three turns ahead). Choose a day when the snow suits you. Go alone, or with someone who won't rush you. Try to build up a good turning rythm before you enter the bumps.
post #76 of 133
The more you ski them, the better you get, the more fun you have.
post #77 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
Its nice to see this thread revived. I wonder if RR has made any breakthroughs in bumps or in pow-pow since last year.

In response to the OP... A few years ago I was basic just like you arcing turns all day, loving speed, afraid of bumps, unsure in pow, but stoked on skiing. One day I realized that I wanted to be where I wanted to be I would have to learn to ski bumps well. Once I got my equipment issues ironed out it took about 2 seasons skiing bumps a little bit almost every day and I had a break through. The skilll I learned in those two seasons well... I am a much better skier than I was 3 years ago.

Skiing bumps isn't hard on the body if you do it right and you can ski quickly in bumps. In fact you have to be quick in bumps--Quick footed and dynamic. Thats what bump skiing is, its making a turn quickly trying to keep in rythm, following the terrain, finding your line, seeing your line, picking your line, and then skiing your line. If you want to be able to ski any run anywhere any time then learning how to ski bumps will do lots to help you get there.
I made no progress, injury sidelined, but the revival of this thread and the constructive criticism such as yours, has got me thinking. Though I dont think I will ever like to ski moguls, or seek them out, I have no doubt in my mind that being able to ski them, and ski them well, will make be a far better skier. Perhaps the injury I suffered last season may have been avoided if I was quicker and more dynamic on my feet. If I have the time and resources this season I think I may try to take a moguls workshop.

Now the powpow issue, that really may have been due to my skis...until I can try out some wide skis on a powder day again I wont know for sure. Maybe this year I'll get lucky.
post #78 of 133
I love skiing bumps. Growing up back East, it was all I did and I still can't resist the temptation to drop into a field of them every now and then if I'm traversing across the top and I spy a line....

Whether you like skiing them or not, being able to handle them will make you a more competent skier all over the mountain. Out west, they're not as prevalent as they used to be (speaking mainly for Tahoe) which I think is mainly due to fat skis, but 'bumps' in one form or another WILL form after a powder day and you will have to deal with them. They require quickness, balance, the ability to look far down the fall line....all of which translates really well to other areas of the mountain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Rich
Now the powpow issue, that really may have been due to my skis...
What were you skiing on?
post #79 of 133
I am not the best of bumpers, but I do make it down ok and I used to be better in my younger days, honest.

Richie-Rich, I get from your posts that you are into racing and skiing on hard snow. Not sure what you are skiing on, but I find GS skis to suck in the bumps. I need either a soft ski or a quick turning slalom ski.

A few season ago I was skiing groomers all day on a pair of racing skis lent to me by a rep, Near the end of the day my son dropped a pole off the lift onto a powder and crud filled, unopen liftline. No problem, I thought, good excuse to duck the rope. Well I felt like a freakin' intermediate on those boards in the soft snow. I could not make them behave. And, while the skis were a lot of fun to carve the hard pack with - they were far from what I would call and all-mountain ski.


Moral of the story - rent or borrow a pair of skis that are appropriate and you should notice a world of difference.

Of course, If I am wrong about your skis then I'm just an old crank talking out of my...
post #80 of 133
Thread Starter 
I have race skis, but the skis I have used when attempting moguls and powder were:Head i.C300 177cm, I dont have the dimensions on hand but they are meant to be hard snow all mountain carvers.
post #81 of 133
Bumps, yes more hated than loved. I think the key to skiing them successfully is at least start out knowing where your next three turns are. If your knees and low back are in good shape you can bang through the troughs. The smoother approach is across the tops. Loosen up, people are way to afraid of these bumps.

Difficulty in a bump field is often dictated by the line. If many beginners are cutting across the fall line it makes for a steep trough in between the moguls. I find it best to turn right on top of this type of mogul. You have to stay over your boots, the tips and tails of your ski are likely going to be in the air. I like my edges sharp enough to cut paper under my boot. Also, being an old schooler helps. Keep you skis together. Bump skiing with your feet apart is very difficult.

Ski choice is also important, I see many people trying to ski moguls on GS or large turn radius skis. This is great if you know what 'functional air' is. Indeed, it can be fun hopping 3 moguls at once, (if the ski patrolers can't catch you in the lift line). GS skis tend to load up with energy after a few short quicker turns. Otherwise, get an old school straight ski or a slalom cut ski. Some of the Park/pipe skis may work. I'm still researching this myself. The straight skis work best, big sidecuts can cause the tip to hook initiating a turn.

I think that to be called a 'good' skiier you should be able to ski all types of terrain, including bumps.

Skiing mostly mid-atlantic and east coast, I would think more skiers would be into bumps. Most of the time I am alone on Lower Shays Revenge at Snowshoe. I'm not world class or anything, but I can ski bumps pretty well. I'd be happy to meet some of you all sometime.
post #82 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I cannot for the life of me learn or even want to learn to ski moguls. I consider myself to be a pretty good skier, I can take just about any trail in resonably good form and at high speeds, but moguls stop me in my tracks. It looks dangerous, seems like too much work, and most of all I cant see myself going fast doing them. In my mind I envision hyperflexing my knees and good-bye season and hello lifetime of pain...from one skier to the next what does this all mean? Can I ever call myself an advanced skier without mastering the moguls?

For that matter, I had one true deep, magazine cover quality, powder day in my life and I hated that as well and found myself in the back seat and tired as all hell.

Its OK - just ski what you wanna ski.

I have **** knees, wish I could do bumps...

At least I can live vicariously through my son...


post #83 of 133
RR
RE: Powder skiing: In spite of my earlier sarcasm regarding skiing powder (yes, my apologies), up until the past few years I could not for the life of me ski powder the way I wanted to, and most importantly, the way I thought I SHOULD be able to ... it was so frustrating and drove me crazy. Then, and probably the only time in my ski life that a single piece of equipment made such a significant difference in my ability - perhaps not my technique ... but my ability to ski powder was the first time I rented some Salomon Pocket Rockets. Although I am not advocating the PR's themselves, they represented an epiphany to me, no exageration, it was a night and day difference. And instantly, skiing powder became by far the most fun terrain I enjoy skiing, and still the same to this day. And yes, although I purchased some used 06/07 goats for this year, I still have the PR"s, and love them. From my experience, I would say, indeed the skis may make a HUGE difference ... they did for me.
post #84 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
I love skiing bumps. Growing up back East, it was all I did and I still can't resist the temptation to drop into a field of them every now and then if I'm traversing across the top and I spy a line....

Whether you like skiing them or not, being able to handle them will make you a more competent skier all over the mountain. Out west, they're not as prevalent as they used to be (speaking mainly for Tahoe) which I think is mainly due to fat skis, but 'bumps' in one form or another WILL form after a powder day and you will have to deal with them. They require quickness, balance, the ability to look far down the fall line....all of which translates really well to other areas of the mountain.



What were you skiing on?
Similar, most of my ski days were spent skiing the empty bump slopes at Holiday. The groomers get so crowded and skied off that the only lonely slopes with all the good snow happened to be the bumps.

it's like that most Resorts. When all the powder has been tracked up you'll find me doing laps on some bump run where the snow is still deep and fresh.
post #85 of 133
Thread Starter 
Thats surely another benefit, the bump trails are almost always empty where I have skied.
post #86 of 133
I can descend icy minefields created by the masses with some semblance of success, but I only really enjoy bumps when they are soft and round enough to let me work without jarring or jolting around. The right soft bump line near the trees for contrast when its snowing is a good time.

Screw being "good" at it in any case. You just need to be good enough so that you can go someplace like late spring Killington and enjoy yourself. If you can't ski bumps at all, its going to be a lousy experience.

The skis make a pretty huge difference IMHO. GS skis aren't too bad in the bumps except for the fact that you will bend them and they are too stiff. Modern SL skis aren't terrible, but they are usually too edgy, too stiff, and too short. Lacking a real bump ski, I'd go with something like the Apache Recon and hope it doesn't bend.
post #87 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman View Post
Screw being "good" at it in any case. You just need to be good enough so that you can go someplace like late spring Killington and enjoy yourself. If you can't ski bumps at all, its going to be a lousy experience.
You my friend hit the nail on the head, been there done that....miserable I was in that huge mine field they call Spring Skiing at Killington.
post #88 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
I dont think its needed but I still have yet to see a skier who could actually make good turns with out poles.
It's a carry over from my instructor days ( 15 years ago, LOL ). Back then, I never skied with poles because we had to be able pick little kids up and help them into the chair when it came around. Poles got in the way, so most of the instructors didn't ski with them. ( I guess now that there are quads everywhere now, maybe this isn't important for instructors anymore. I'm not an instructor now, I want time to ski, LOL )

I still ski mostly without my poles ( I hold them in one hand and don't use them except when traversing through the trees, etc ). I love the feeling of deep powder pole-less, IMHO they just get in the way. I can see people wanting them in bumps ( sometimes I do as well ), but they're *far* from necessary. I'd even go as far as saying that if you feel that you *need* them in the bumps, you should ski a run without them. I've seen far too many people dragging their poles in the bumps trying to control their speed ( maybe, I'm guessing ).
post #89 of 133
To me it is instructive to see how difficult certain situations can be without poles. For me these are the situations where I need to invest the most work. Taking the "crutch" away points that out pretty readily. Bumps would be one of those for sure.

At the same time I like my poles a bit long, which ends up biting hard in the bumps where serious bump skiers go shorter than normal. I'm wondering if I should cut my poles before this season starts and just learn to deal with it.
post #90 of 133
FWIW- My 'regular' ski poles are 130cm. My cut down poles for moguls are 114cm.
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