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How To Determine Your "Level" - Page 2

post #31 of 67
i get a kick out of this thread. people bullshit more about their ability levels than income. faisay and others are right. what does it matter? rarely does anyone hit the number on the head and for me to intelligently rate someone i need to be standing in front of the chart.

half the folks over estimate and half under estimate their abilities. if i'm good i can watch someone walk up to a lesson and tell by how they carry their skis, their clothing, their boots, their boot set up, their skis, and most of the time i'm not too freakin far off.

your better than most and not as good as some. if anyone ever blows their chest out kick em in the go-knees!

remember the famous quote from phil and steve- "you only made your best turn once".

on the topic of DIN settings and levels I, II, and III. what folks fail to realize is there is no such thing as a pre-release. the absolutely very best bump skier i know skiis an absurdley low DIN because he is so very smooth. most binding issues are not related to DIN, they are related to incorrectly set forward pressure settings and or worn out boot soles.
post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy View Post
on the topic of DIN settings and levels I, II, and III. what folks fail to realize is there is no such thing as a pre-release. the absolutely very best bump skier i know skiis an absurdley low DIN because he is so very smooth. most binding issues are not related to DIN, they are related to incorrectly set forward pressure settings and or worn out boot soles.
[threaddrift]Then please explain to me why racebindings have such high DINS and why racers use these settings? Thanks. [/threaddrift]

One problem is one sites rating's 8 is another site's 10.

I just skied and didn't worry about until it I had to buy skis. Then I had to tell the salesman what "level". "Duh, Idono?" results in learner skis. I bought some race skis after demonstrating. Years later I signed up for a lesson, I told the guy at the desk, "I haven't got a clue", but it was a private so it didn't mater much. Other than buying skis (when you are an expert , if you want to have any chance of getting a ski that performs at speed), or taking lessons (when you should just get a private from a level III anyway), your level doesn't matter.
post #33 of 67
Trust a Marker rep to deny there are pre-releases! HAR! That said, I have Markers on my Phat Luvs and thankfully, they are the only ones to have never spat me out. In fact, I'm not even sure that they DO release. hmm.
post #34 of 67
Dookey,
I'm like you. I like to spend most of my time on the blacks and maybe even easier double blacks (no cliffs please) but I just don't consider myself an expert skier. One of the responses said something like - just because I can survive a double black, doesn't mean I am a level 8 or 9 skier. I think that is true but it still doesn't tell us where we stand.

It is interesting to rate yourself against other skiers to see where you stand, but in the end it is just fun to ski, no matter how good I look on the mountain.

Opening day is not too far away.
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
One problem is one sites rating's 8 is another site's 10.

Which sites? Are they current (that rules out Terry Morse)?
post #36 of 67
My level can change from hour to hour depending on how much sleep I got, how much skiing I have done in the past hour, day, week, how much Ibuprofin I took, or how much beer I had for lunch. I can easily go from an 8 at the top of the ridge to a 5 at the bottom of the mountain.
post #37 of 67
Tarzan, you sound like me - but a 7-5!
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post
Tarzan, you sound like me - but a 7-5!
Your profile says you are 36 years old, You have no Idea kid.

When you get my age and shape "Vitamin I" is your best friend on the mountain.

I ski with a former Womens downhill racer and a gal who trains Avalanche rescue dogs and likes to practice where Avalanche's occour. My most used expression on the mountain is "You have to be kidding". They believe lifts are to get to to the base of where you start schlepping or climbing.

And yes they think I whine too much also.
post #39 of 67
Vitamin I IS my bestest friend in the whole wide world!

...and people think I wine too much too!
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Guy View Post

the absolutely very best bump skier i know skiis an absurdley low DIN because he is so very smooth. most binding issues are not related to DIN, they are related to incorrectly set forward pressure settings and or worn out boot soles.
What is "absurdley low DIN" 8-9? 5?

Is he a competition mogul skier?

Does he do aerials in the moguls?


I do have Markers and have used them for almost 20 years(m46 to 14.0 frees).

But, I don't think you are addressing the complaint about markers releasing on landings more than other binding do.
post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
I took a moguls free clinic at Northstar last season and the instructor more or less suggested to go back and take a basics refresher as he said I'd developed some bad habits.
Do you remember the date?

I did one too, but what are the odds it was the same class?
post #42 of 67
Thread Starter 
^no clue on the date, though it was most likely in February and on a Friday (I have a Heavenly Pass which allows me to ski @ NS m-f for 1/2 price, so I usually only go there mid-week).
post #43 of 67
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
Pretty much the only way is to get a very good instructor to be really honest with you. I've always felt that the skier ability levels are an indication of your technical skill, and have little to do with the terrain that you spend most of your time skiing. i.e., the ability to survive a black-diamond bump run doesn't necessarily make you a level 8/9/whatever skier.

The problem with this statement is the majority of instructors are not "that good".
post #45 of 67
Thread Starter 
Tarzan and WTFH, sounds like we need to ride together.

One of my long-time ski buddies is a hardcore tele head. He's also insanely naturally athletic. For example when we were in college he took advantage of this "rent 1 get one free" snowboard deal at Heavenly. He coaxed one of our other buddies into joining him. By lunch he was hitting the black diamond moguls on a snowboard. The other buddy was still on the greens. At any rate he went full-bore into boarding (ditched his teal green 7s's), eventually raced boards, and now he's free-heeling. He "drags" me into runs that I might otherwise overlook much like your friends seem to do Tarzan. I actually enjoy skiing with him best because he won't wait for me and is a nice ego booster ("Yo Dook, you can totally do this, man!"). And whine I do, on more than one occasion. Though over the years I've learned to just bite the tongue and go for it.

Of course this is offset by the "hero" days where I ride with some lady friend boarders who are 10-15 years my junior and have only been on the snow for a few years, so i come off like a "god of swoosh." It's nice to have the two "extremes" to work off of throughout the year.

The mountain don't get any shorter if you stand around and whine, best to shut the f@#k up and just pick/follow a line!

That's the new motto I just sucked out of my cerebellum!

post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
(ditched his teal green 7s's)

is it 7s's or 7s'
post #47 of 67
Thread Starter 
Rossignol 7S's

So that would indeed be 7s's (though I should have capped the first "s")


post #48 of 67
in response to
Originally Posted by Ghost
One problem is one sites rating's 8 is another site's 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post
Which sites? Are they current (that rules out Terry Morse)?

Well, for example Stowe (http://www.stowe.com/lessons/adult_semiprivate.php) says
/ Level 7 - I like the easy black runs if they are groomed. In most situations I can link my turns together and control my speed.
Level 8 - I seek out most black runs in most conditions. I want to learn the secrets of skiing or riding different terrain and snow conditions.
Level 9 - I enjoy all black diamond runs. I want to master the Front Four runs of Stowe and ski or ride with the versatility that is the mark of the expert

Which reads at least one level off from what has been posted here. (Note in particular the difference between "I can confidently..." and "I want to...")

The questionaire JH Steep&Deep sends out to enrollees takes the Spinal Tap approach:
(Level 8 omitted)
Level 9 ¨-¨¨ Advanced / Expert - You are a strong parallel skier in bumps, powder & steeps. You ski most black runs comfortably.
Level 10 ¨¨ Expert – You are able to link turns in extremely narrow & steep areas. You ski ¨¨, chutes & tight trees comfortably and in control in all conditions.
Level 11 ¨¨-¨¨ Professional - You can keep up with Tommy Moe and Rob Des Lauriers in all conditions and all terrain any where in the world, including jumps over 40 feet.


Actually I think this is a very reasonable approach. The standard scale is well matched to the typical walk-up mix at a ski school, which is tends to clump at the low end and needs more granularity there. If there were more levels, the upper ones would just get combined to get enough students for a class a lot of the time. For a specialty product catering to better skiers, more granularity at the high end makes sense.

Note also though that the 8 and 9 levels here are more like the Stowe levels than the EpicSki levels.
post #49 of 67
Self-image is illusory.

In my 20's, I considered myself and expert. In truth, I was an athletic hacker, who compensated for lack of technique with youthful agility and strength.

As I aged, I became more honest. My technique improved dramatically, through late 40's. I peaked at age 48 - level 8.

I still focus on technique each run. But, at age 52, physical limits set in. One can't maintain muscle-tone and conditioning as before. Even with yoga, cardio and thigh-burn are issues. The body changes (it's a shocker - get ready).

I now consider myself a level 7, perhaps 7 +.

The difference between those improve and those that don't, IMHO, is focus. Some people ski hundreds of days, and look same each time. Others pick a point, and evolve with each run.

If I ski until I'm 90, I'll still be working on my pole plant, angulation and rhythm.
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
in response to
Originally Posted by Ghost
One problem is one sites rating's 8 is another site's 10.


...
Note also though that the 8 and 9 levels here are more like the Stowe levels than the EpicSki levels.

Ah, yes, I accept that - I thought he was talking about DIN settings! d'oh!
post #51 of 67
Thread Starter 
Strato! The way you've been regailing me with tales of the hotties in Denmark I had you pegged for a hormone riddled 25 year old!



MDF:
thanks for those descriptions from Stowe and JH.

Based on text descritions, I fall between the 7 & 8 rankings for Stowe.

Level 7 - I like the easy black runs if they are groomed. In most situations I can link my turns together and control my speed.
Level 8 - I seek out most black runs in most conditions. I want to learn the secrets of skiing or riding different terrain and snow conditions.


I totally seek out most black runs and want to learn the secrets of skiing in different terrain. I am still uncovering the secrets and will be most happy if I crack a few of them this season.

I am nowhere near the JH S&D criteria. But hey, that's cool. I can ski a large chunk of that mountain, just not the Tommy Moes-meets-Scott Schmidt stuff.
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post

I am nowhere near the JH S&D criteria.
Actually you might be. I suspect your self-grading is pretty conservative. It's the Epicski culture (or at least one of the subcultures here).

The camp covers a wide range. I emailed back and forth with them before signing up 'cause I was worried if I was good enough. The staff sorts people out on the first morning. I wound up in a group below the middle but not at the bottom, which turned out to be just about right.

For completeness, here's the level 8 description I left out originally (it's the lowest available choice on the questionaire):

Level 8 šš¨ Advanced - You are able to make good parallel turns on most advanced runs with good speed control

Geez, I'm supposed to be working. Bye!
post #53 of 67
Thread Starter 
yeah, me, too (working).

i'mma get it all sorted out this season. i'mma take a few lessons and probably hit the Tahoe ESA. we'll see.

it's really the last two seasons that I've ramped up and been skiing in excess of 20+ days a year.

wish i'd done it a little sooner, though.



so, you took the JH S&D course? how was it? what did it entail? is there a link for it on the JH website?

i skied there for the first time last season (closing weekend, rode the final winter tram) and am intrigued by the mountain. i know there's a ton of stuff I didn't hit because i was riding solo.
post #54 of 67
mdf, you're working for us now.

Can you please transcribe the level 10 criteria and post it in the "What is expert?" thread. It looks like you've edited it down to the crux. It seems to meet my idea of expert skiing and I'd like to see the whole thing. Thanks in advance if you get the time to post that.

I'm enjoying these self rating threads as we anticipate the coming season and wonder do we still "rip" or have we forgotten how to ski entirely. I think I ski better now than I did the last day of the previous season, just from reading Epicski.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
yeah, me, too (working).

i know there's a ton of stuff I didn't hit because i was riding solo.

Ok, one more then back to work.
Yeah, I did S&D. It must have been good, I'm going back this year. Maybe I'll do a full trip report when I'm not supposed to be working.

The solo thing was a big part of the reason I went to camp. I wanted to push my limits, and figured it'd be safer with guidance and companions.

I made my plans before I became aware of the epicski acadamies - I may substitute one of them in 2008 if I can continue to get an extra ski trip per year.

(Last year and this coming year I was able to do one week family skiing and a separate serious solo trip. I'm not sure how many years I'll be able to sustain that model, but here's hoping. I throw in some day trips here in the NE too, but never as many as I'd like. Last year I had the ASC pass and just barely got in enough days to break even.)
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Can you please transcribe the level 10 criteria and post it in the "What is expert?" thread. It looks like you've edited it down to the crux.

...

I'm enjoying these self rating threads as we anticipate the coming season and wonder do we still "rip" or have we forgotten how to ski entirely. I think I ski better now than I did the last day of the previous season, just from reading Epicski.

Nah, that's the whole thing. The rest of the questionaire is more concrete stuff, namely what areas have you skied at, which were your favorite runs, how aggressive are you, how fast are you, what is your physical condition....(ouch.. got to start being more regular at the gym!)

I agree with the second part of your quote above.
post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
one week family skiing and a separate serious solo trip.
the other alternative is to combine them. If my son improves as much this year as last he may be ready for serious terrain in 2008.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Strato View Post
Self-image is illusory.

In my 20's, I considered myself and expert. In truth, I was an athletic hacker, who compensated for lack of technique with youthful agility and strength.

As I aged, I became more honest. My technique improved dramatically, through late 40's. I peaked at age 48 - level 8.

I still focus on technique each run. But, at age 52, physical limits set in. One can't maintain muscle-tone and conditioning as before. Even with yoga, cardio and thigh-burn are issues. The body changes (it's a shocker - get ready).

I now consider myself a level 7, perhaps 7 +.

The difference between those improve and those that don't, IMHO, is focus. Some people ski hundreds of days, and look same each time. Others pick a point, and evolve with each run.
With the passage of time, instead of improving, I keep seeing more things that I don't do as effectively as I think I should. My opinion of my level goes down. I think I'm about a minus 6 now.

I devolve with each run. Soon my forehead will be sloping back, my eyebrow ridges will stick out, my knuckles will drag.

On the other hand, despite being Older Than Dirt (and older than Strato), thigh burn is not generally a problem, except when skiing 30cm of Pacific Northwest Goo. Even then, it was due to an error on my part - I was doing a classic backseat thing. The problem went away when I moved over my feet a bit more. It was, in the end, just another example of less than optimally effective skiing.
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post
I thought he was talking about DIN settings! d'oh!
My bad! Looking back, I think he was!
post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
Strato! The way you've been regailing me with tales of the hotties in Denmark I had you pegged for a hormone riddled 25 year old!
You were 1/2 right!

Hormones don't fade on Danes until mid-90's. If my wife could read my mind, she'd never stop slapping me.

I still sit in Copenhagen cafe's and watch 6-foot-tall blond amazons ride by on their bicycles, as I breathe unevenly into my latte.
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