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Vot music do you like to listen to? - Page 3

post #61 of 119
Whose gone fishin'
post #62 of 119

Next time you go, take me with, OK?

Any of you remember the "upside down" reverse color shots from the ski film cult classic MOBIUS?

Somebody ripping on skis in the terrain park needs to do a sequel, call it KLEIN BOTTLE

I've always appreciated interesting topological studies...

especially in those wonderful colors, ti

I suggest Ozric Tentacles as the "tunes of choice" for that ski run... http://www.execpc.com/~mwerning/index.html

¯¯¯/__ SnoKarver <A HREF="http://communities.msn.com/SnoKarver

" TARGET=_blank>http://communities.msn.com/SnoKarver

post #63 of 119

still wanna stick with that "tongue in cheek" stuff?
post #64 of 119
"I love it when you call me names."

- Joan Armatrading.


Love ya too much for words, sweetheart. Kisses and hugs and all my affection.
post #65 of 119
SnoKArver! I mentioned "The Mobius Flip" a couple months ago. Must've been just before you got here. No one had heard of it. I saw it on Mt Snow TV when I was there last December for a PSIA event. The group of us in our condo just sat there dumbfounded, yet glued to the set for the whole movie. When it was all over we had to wonder what we just saw, but we loved it and couldn't stop singing the theme song. Definitely a cult classic. Sort of has a Jimi Hendrix video sort of quality to it.
post #66 of 119
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Think about it Mr. Gonzostrike. We all have different points of reference. We have different backgrounds, different experiences etc. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Diversity for diversity’s sake is valid. As the world becomes more homogenized we run the risk of loosing many things. I’m sure some of the musicians you have listed have been influenced by cultures that are being overrun by the local dominant culture. Once they are gone their ability to influence is gone, and the result may be less interesting. The argument of for diversity for diversity’s sake spans all the sciences. For example, many agriculturists are concerned about growing dominance and narrowing genes of the Holstein as the milk cow. The concern is that the Holsteins are becoming inbred and that is making them more vulnerable to specific diseases. The Holstein is the best dairy cow based on volume of milk produced. We have seen that and rewarded it at the expense of other types of cow. But if a disease wipes out the Holsteins, where will we get our milk? We need the diversity. There are many other examples of this and there are many people who have made it a point to maintain

Diversity for Diversity’s Sake

and we will all be better off because of it.
post #67 of 119
I like the Ramones.
post #68 of 119

okay, sure. will do. you're unusually polite toward me, so i'll honor your request. but as far as commenting on people, style, thought, feeling, etc., without knowing what's REALLY happening inside people, come on, take a look at your own posts. (i'd be happy to cite fairly clear references if you'd like that as "proof." but let's just leave it at this, okay?)

by the way - this just crossed my mind - just How Diverse Are Your Tastes in Music, Art, Movies, Books, Etc.? we both read mccarthy - i think he's the most powerful writer alive.(Please, no argument; it's Just My Opinion.)
Music I feel "influenced" by includes Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Leonard Cohen, Miles Davis, Coltrane, etc. It's a long list and I'd leave out too many. Writers I make a point of reading: McCarthy, Thms. McGuane, Robert Stone. I used to see too many films, now I rarely see any. About the only TV I find clever and engaging now are - sad? - "cartoons." (I honestly couldn't tell you a thing about what passes for OTHER TV right now.)
Art: Ad Reinhardt's work STILL strikes me as a fine example of simple, elegant, powerful.


beat the brat
beat the brat
beat the brat with a baseball bat
oh yeah, yeah, oh oh oh <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 27, 2001).]</FONT>
post #69 of 119

Never read Grisham. Never will. Clancy, either, or any of that. Don't care for it. Could say more (about "less") but it's just my taste. I'd defend anyone's right to what they like and leave it at that. Will save THAT soapbox derby for when I'm prompted. I'd say, yes, it IS all "good," but ya can't just leave it at that. And it would be a dissertation to get into. I'm way-through with school. And, yes, of course, at the same time, NO, it is NOT "all good."
But this becomes unwieldy.

Don't know Jack about Gaddis. Maybe I should. Have read some Pynchon. Crying of Lot 49, Vineland(?). Thought Gravity's Rainbow(?) was a mess; acid-fueled and completely masturbatory. Totally. Practically unreadable. Got halfway through and thought, This is Freakin' Ridiculous. Oh well, We just disagree. (Dave Mason.)
A friend of mine plays a lot of The Dead and Panic and Salmon and String Cheese, etc. Some I like, the rest...just ain't my taste. (Although a lot of the guys in those aforementioned bands are BIG-TIME ski bums, so I'll give 'em that.)


edit p.s. The "Cholera" guy is Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Dreamscape political activism. Have read most of his stuff. Early Hemingway is moving, later stuff kinda sad. I'm a lazy reader, I think. I start to read and I just want to write. So I have a ton of half-read books in my library. Tend to be attracted now to non-fiction.

Can't STAND the rap and much of the hip-hop. Most of it - not ALL of it - strikes me as posers goin' off about how "bad"(good) they are. And the gratuitous violence, racism, sexism, me-ism, etc., is just TOO discouraging and makes me feel kinda sad and not real hopeful.

Gone. <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 28, 2001).]</FONT>
post #70 of 119
Mr. Gonzonstrike, you missed part of my point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your definition of bogus art may not be mine. Who makes the distinction? An “expert”? For every expert declaring one thing you can find another to declare the opposite. I do not want anyone deciding what I think art is. If it is art to me, IT IS ART TO ME, nothing more nothing less.

I also take issue of “its all good” being the mantra of the self appointed hip and down crowd. In my experience the self appointed hip and down crowd of whatever social circle you are trying to get hip and down with have very specific likes and dislikes. Those who think “its all good” are never fully accepted into the crowd because they do not have the required dislikes.

How diverse are your tastes? You have already listed quite a bit of information. I never questioned your diversity in tastes. My previous statements were in response to your statement implying (and feel free to insert the appropriate legalize) diversity for its own sake is not a laudable goal.
post #71 of 119
ryan, what's your favorite McGuane tale? I believe I have read them all and for some reason Nobody's Angel (especially the sister's funeral bit) seems to stick. I enjoy his non-fiction but have to admit I preferred his fiction before he cleaned up his act.
post #72 of 119

John Lee Hooker passed away last week. I was reading the obituary page because my cousin's wife had passed away and noticed his death notice in the paper as well..

Life is too short and precious to be arguing about and attacking each others choices of music. Just enjoy what you like.
post #73 of 119

exactamundo! check the thread in GENERAL SKI on ALTA AND KING CRIMSON. wish more here would take the clue and stop the sensibility-police stuff. why anyone has to knock what THEY don't prefer is baffling. anyway...



i liked NOTHING BUT BLUE SKIES. 'specially the pig-riding scene. man, i was laughing so damn hard.
if you fish, check out his essays on fishing. as you know, that plays a part in his fiction, as well. he's in montana.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 28, 2001).]</FONT>
post #74 of 119
dchan says:
> Life is too short and precious to be arguing about and attacking
> each others choices of music. Just enjoy what you like.

Unless it's Kenny G.
post #75 of 119
Gonzostrike -

I bet I'm one of the few on this board who has read and listened to most of what you cite. Your tastes seem to me equivalent to a run-of-the-mill junior-year English major, but hey, that's just me. I mean Gravity's Rainbow is an important post-war work, but it's also tiresome and nearly unreadable.

My point is not to slam you, but to say it's hard to defend standards because some other elitist s.o.b can always run circles around you no matter where you stake out your territory. It's like a joke in the computer industry "that's the great thing about standards, there's so many to choose from." Sophistication of tastes is slippery slope. It's not about how much you have read. It's especially not about ranking the obscure works of obscure authors according to your own subjective impressions. That's just another type of consumerism. It's flashing authors names like brand names, hoping to accrue some of their cultural value on yourself. I have an 85 year old uncle, a retired law professor, who sits around in the mornings reading Thucydides in the original Greek and then loves to discuss the fine points of the Athenian arguments to the Melians and relate it to current American foreign policy posturing. He's never read Gaddis. Is he an idiot?

It's not that the notion of standards isn't valid or that works of art cannot be judged or critiqued, it's just that what we perceive as innovation within formal rule structures is constantly changing, as are the rules themselves. Things have a way of circling back on themselves. Tu Fu's 7th century poetry about war torn China puts Pynchon to shame, and does it in poems that get translated into English in two quatrains. What does that do to the idea of progress or standards? Does that make me smarter than you because my view of war literature and fiction encompasses more obscure and generally recognized better writers?

What's important in art is what you get out of it, not what's in the art itself. Marshall Mathers is stoking independent thought in millions of kids. Sure, from my point of view he is merely headache-inducing but nonetheless he is a legitimate response to the culture of lots of kids and they are responding to that. Same with Pynchon, he stokes lots of minds. That's his measure of artistic achievement. When I first read him as an eighteen year old I was amazed and learned a lot. Now, 20 some odd years of reading and learning later, he's passe to me. So whose judgement is valid? Aren't they equally all valid, assuming that some genuine revelatory artistic experience is gleaned from the work? It's not a continuum with ignorant barbarians on one end and philosopher-kings on the other, it's a net, a universe.

There is not one truth. Cultural values are not logically consistent and are in conflict. (For instance, how can you have liberty and equality in a society?) Art thrives in those conflicts. Some may reflect your life, others may not. The fact that you don't respond does not invalidate the work. Life is a long road and art helps us along. Denigrating others for starting behind you and yet remaining behind, or traveling other roads altogether, is not useful. That's the way I see it anyhow. Your posts struck me as very pretentious, that's the best way I can explain why.

(As for the original poster's question, currently in the CD players, home and car, are Dave Alvin & Guilty Men, Blackjack David; O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack; Essential Doc Watson; Rice, Rice, Hillman, Pederson; Aimee Mann, Bachelor No 2; Tulare Dust, a Merle Haggard tribute; Best of Merle Travis; Sarah Harmer, You Were Here; and Wilco, Being There, disk 2. If you were to guess I've been trying to learn some guitar recently, you'd be right.)
post #76 of 119
Anyone who doesn't toe Gonzo's line is a liberal, PC conforming, victim of the [imaginary] left-wing dominant media.
The guy still wins idiot of the BB award, and I don't even think he has to try that hard.
post #77 of 119
I still say your welcome to quaff scotch w/ me after a day together @ alta any time next year.
post #78 of 119
Has anyone read Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenace? Can you define quality(adjective)??
Merriam Webster's definition reads "Being of high quality."
post #79 of 119
You lost me. why would wine tasting be not enjoying what I like. I don't tell people that their wine choice is bad or wrong. If I don't like the wine I'll tell you that, but then again like most other things, I don't have to partake if I don't like it. I just won't drink it.
post #80 of 119

Re where the conclusions came from and way-wide brush strokes...

see your post above with these lovely beginnings (and make sure to read them through).

"Hippie retread bands...

Atmospheric yuppie music...

butt rock is for...

Nash Vegas...

Pop jazz is for...

Angst rock is for people who feel TERRIBLY UNEMPOWERED and INSECURE, and reinforces their DEPRESSED, POWERLESS attitudes..."

Et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.

It's all there, Strike. (I know, I know, innocent and brilliant sarcasm meant to make a point or this or that or whatever. Your song is old and predictable.) (though I still love to see how you spin stuff when you're called on it).

YOU'RE the charlatan. YOU'RE the naked emperor.

You're the one who uses the bus-size paintbrush. Argue it if you want, but it's inarguable.

You're backtracking is a wonderful circus act. Do it again, please.

There was ZERO that jim_s said that was off-the-mark. AND he exhibited a degree of class you might now and them dream about.

Last, as far as you being against that which causes things to "devolve and dissipate, rather than evolve and enhance, review the course of this thread before you stomped on in.

I know, I know, I'm a "tequila tapeworm," or whatever you called me before; so save the bombast this time. (Not likely.)

As for your advice to Ryan, that he doesn't know what you think or feel, so leave the crystal ball back in the circus tent...

check YOURSELF. read YOUR posts. it's all there, regardless of your backtrack dance.
post #81 of 119
Ever had a T-bird & Kool-aid wine cooler? Very refreshing. I used to serve it to my underage dates and.....
post #82 of 119
Hmm. interesting point. I make judgements of quality for myself but I "try" not to project own level of standards on others. If your choices match mine that's fine. if not, enjoy what you like but don't tell me my choice is bad. I just have a different reference point.. that's all.
post #83 of 119
uh, i believe i'll take credit for the introduction into this thread of the word, masturbatory. (it happened to fit, i think.)

i happen to like my Tu Fu plain, on wheat bread, with peanut butter and honey.

- Commander McBragg
post #84 of 119
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
post #85 of 119
"...denigrating others for enjoyment."

thanks, gonz. you don't even realize how beautiful and appropriate that was, coming from you. 'specially given my last post.

you take it, pal.

that was classic. thank you.

also, mr. "ye be eedjits" (as in You are Idiots, which is certainly NOT a denigration, right?), re your reference to choice of "handles", comedic? so YOUR real name is Gonzostrike?

uh, Hullo, Mr. Strike?

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Mescalero (edited June 29, 2001).]</FONT>
post #86 of 119
dear dipsh#t,

Mescalero: a member of an Apache people of Texas and New Mexico. Look it up, "eedjit." And I know about your handle and the bike reference.

Back to the "you don't know what I think or feel" (to Ryan), I guess your idiotic reference to me being a "hippie" and your use of "right arm" is explained by your assumption about Mescalero and drugs. Stupid.

yeah, i wish fishing were this easy, too, 'cause you're the dumbest fish in the river.

Mescalero means drugs, huh? And Castaneda? Gonz, go grow a brain already.

Remember, "sparingly and wisely."

"Let's see what other bait," blah blah blah.

Bye, Sean O'N, Eedjit Esq.
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Mescalero (edited June 29, 2001).]</FONT>
post #87 of 119
ok guys enough...

back to skiing.
post #88 of 119

i agree. enough. a long time ago. you're right. and i apologize to all. i'll not respond to whatever else is said. you have my word. but when he says Mescalero is about drugs (along with all else he's said...) he has got to be informed. not that it helps.

anyway, again. i am sorry to have played a part in this. (to a point.) back to skiing.
post #89 of 119
rule and blow,

as is well known and documented on this site, i am LisaMarie.


don't go unraveling(sp?) now.

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 29, 2001).]</FONT>
post #90 of 119
"I detest 'artists' who cause things to devolve and dissipate, rather than evolve and enhance."

With the former, surely you are referring to Beethoven's last quartets? Spenser's The Fairie Queene? Julio Cortazar? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you again.

"How is purveyance of hate and scorn and disdain and self-loathing in any way an exposition of beauty?"

Because it mocks the very self-loathing inherent in establishment types who want to control the expression of mass culture according to their antiquated mono-cultural view of what legitimate tradition is. Arguments about standards are thinly veiled arguments for political control. When a country that officially crows at every opportunity about being the land of the free has the third highest incarceration rate on the planet, then urban poor express hate and disdain for authority. When guys get shot by cops 41 times for pulling a wallet out of thier pants, things are seriously messed up. So far, only the rap artists (with a few exceptions, notably Steve Earle and Springsteen) are exploring that, although this tradition goes way back through depression songs and country blues into 17th century murder ballads, at least. We are lucky (and by "we" I mean us white guys) they do it in song and not in street rioting. The self-irony in rap has a long history. Those who take rap lyrics at face value are victims of a very good, though very pointed, joke. Dr. Dre's been having a good laugh at the Tipper Gores of the world, of which you are an excellent specimen, for nearly 20 years now. The average 15 year old gets it, why don't you? Where's the beauty, you ask? The beauty is in the idea of a more equitable society that these people recognize in their heads, that they instinctively feel in the hearts, but do not see on the streets, in their schools. They see poor rundown schools they go to and the well-kept palaces the rich kids go to. They know the rhetoric about "leave no child behind" is pure bullsh*t. They magnify the ugliness they see in song, knowing full well it's roots, or at least the power to change it, lie in the sanctimonious hypocrites who get all bent out of shape about rap music. Rappers consciously personify a reduction to absurdity of white America's self-created worst nightmare. (Sure, some do it unconsciously). It's art holding a mirror to society, only it's a fun house mirror where they hold up the opposite of what's desirable. Imagine that, a bona fide literay device like irony being used in a popular music genre! The fact that lots of dissaffected white suburban kids pick up on it just underscores the art's empathetic powers. The whole point is to reject YOUR values and YOUR standards. I mean, come on, what's more offensive, eminem songs or the fact that Clarence Thomas sits on the Supreme Court fixing elections and pontificating about obscenity after having lied under oath about his voracious consumption of pornographic material and harrassment of female co-workers? What's a realistic artistic expression against such hypocrisy? For sure, huffing and puffing about dead white male standards misses the point.

Sure, people who read lots of books are going to end up preferring Cormac McCarthy to writers like Grisham, on the whole. Some art is better than others. But standards and relative comparisons of merit only have a place within a tradition. You've got to compare apples to apples. You can talk about why Marvell is the most major minor English poet and make sense, but comparing Barbara Cortland to Cormac McCarthy? That's just snobbery. Grisham is a damn entertaining writer, you should try him sometime. Don't let cultural anxiety about it not being good enough to deserve your attention get in the way.

You're right, "it's all good" is empty and false but slagging off stuff outside your own traditions is just small and mean. (Except for Kenny G., of course.) Stuff has to be pretty damn hackneyed to be worthless. There's a great quote from George Winston: the woods would be a pretty quiet place if the only birds that sang were the birds that sang best.

(Just for the record, I offer this in good fun. I'm serious about this stuff, but not nearly as disdainful as I probably come off. Notice I didn't even attack the highly questionable notion that art = beauty Maybe literature ahould be in the off-season sports section? I'd love to hash this out over single malt or a cold 40 anytime. Who's buying?)
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