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Default movements and maneuvers - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 
The whole step/stem is another example of what I am talking about Bud. The contact point moves but the pelvis remains relatively still. It has applications and is good to know but if that is all you can do...
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
We might observe that, fear or not, we've all been walking for a while. A year or two. Or many. Anyway, when we're strolling along in our runners or our hiking boots and we come to a downward slope, what do we do? When wearing shoes, we settle back on our heels. The shoes usually don't simply slide downhill (except on slippery slopes of some kind, in which case we end up on our butts), so the tactic works pretty well, and has worked well for years.
Excellent point.

My wife falls every hiking season at least once on steep rocky surfaces. Her automatic response is to lean back to arrest her forward movement and her feet slide out from under her. Mine is just the opposite. When I approach a pitched surface, subconsciously I flex my ankles and knees and get my weight forward over the balls of my feet to get as much surface area (friction) as possible on my feet/shoes. "grip...grip...grip" runs through my mind. It may be because I loved to climb on boulders as a child.

For whatever reason, that same "instinct" does not carry through in my skiing, even though I started skiing at an early age also. I still have to make a conscious effort to focus on getting up and over my skis when encoutering a steep, icy pitch. It is a mental thing, however, because if I ski the same pitch in a race training mode, it happens automatically. Freeskiing the same pitch, I have to consciously think to stay forward. Different objectives maybe? Race training is go faster, freeskiing is stay in control.
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
when you said, "if the core does not move back over the feet by the turn completion a big release move becomes necessary", I would inquire...How does one make a "release move" without the core moving over/across the skis?...
Bud, what immediately comes to mind is a release by retraction and swinging the skis under the CM/core. I know ... different turn different age.
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
When I approach a pitched surface, subconsciously I flex my ankles and knees and get my weight forward over the balls of my feet to get as much surface area (friction) as possible on my feet/shoes. "grip...grip...grip" runs through my mind. It may be because I loved to climb on boulders as a child.

For whatever reason, that same "instinct" does not carry through in my skiing, even though I started skiing at an early age also. I still have to make a conscious effort to focus on getting up and over my skis when encoutering a steep, icy pitch.
Medmarkco, Can you imagine tryin to do this in ski boots on dry land. The restrictions of the boot would make it impossible. I think this is why we need to learn new responses to familar sensations when we learn to ski. the ski boot restricts ankle mobility to such a degree that we need to get so far out over the hill to be perpendicular to the slope and ski. In a dryland setting, getting this far forward would result in us falling forward down the hill.

I think this is why so many people rush their turns through and across the falline. So they spend as little time as possible out and away from the hill. For what it is worth. later, RicB.
post #35 of 45
Does it matter why someone does something? Aren't the cures the same no matter what the cause?

(I don't care how I got this cold, please just help me get rid of it.)
post #36 of 45
Thread Starter 
I think "why" is the whole point, Nolo. Your "cold" is because of a rhinovirus, zinc gluconate fills the receptors in the nasopharynx. With no place to land the virus cannot infect your nose. For some zicam works, but for others cold-eze works. Two cures with two totally different delivery methods. BTW wash your hands before you rub your eyes, pick your nose, lick your fingers.
IMO the more a student understands their actions and the subsequent consequences, the easier my job becomes. Not to mention I feel I am helping them make informed decisions not just prescribing a "cure".
post #37 of 45
Quote:
Beyond that the "cure" might be the same, then again, it might not.
Other than the obvious custom approach for any contribution equipment might be making, aren't the cures for negative movements in skiing pretty standard for all skiers?
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
Other than the obvious custom approach for any contribution equipment might be making, aren't the cures for negative movements in skiing pretty standard for all skiers?
In many ways yes, but making the corrections a "default movement" is the challenge. In my case, I've been skiing long enough and know better, so I would expect to never find myself on my heels when it isn't intentional. Still happens.
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
I think this is why so many people rush their turns through and across the falline. So they spend as little time as possible out and away from the hill. For what it is worth. later, RicB.
Think you're right on that one. And the rapid acceleration that comes with it.
post #40 of 45
Thread Starter 
Nolo, The cure might be similar but IMO the "dose" varies according to the individual. Otherwise we end up over correcting and creating more problems than we fix.
post #41 of 45
I agree with both of you, by the way: with JASP that a student who understands his/her own cause and effect is in a better position to change, and with Mark that knowing why and how alone is not going to make a change come about. (I apologize if my paraphrasing changes your meaning, in which case, I hope you will straighten us out...)

Beyond knowing why an old habit is not working for you (the so-called "negative" movement such as moving away from the direction of travel), and how to go about replacing it with a positive movement, what actually makes such a change come about is awareness and will.
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
what actually makes such a change come about is awareness and will.
I agree wholeheartedly Nolo.

In another thread I mentioned an interview with Jim Flick (who has been one of the premier golf instructors in the country for many years) on teaching and students. His thoughts can readily be applied to any sport.

Q: Do students fail to assess their own games accurately?

A: Absolutely. Most people are not 100% honest with themselves. They actually expect knowledge to create good habits, rather than doing the work necessary to become efficient with their golf swings and with their habits. Most people are not willing to go through the changes that are necessary to really make changes. They want to hear the information, but they expect that alone to create the change rather than make the effort that’s necessary.


Jim has a number of thoughs on why but I'll save those for another day.
post #43 of 45
Thread Starter 
"They actually expect knowledge to create good habits, rather than doing the work..."
Sadly, a lot of instructors think this way. The hard part is usually the work.
post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewil View Post
Q: Do students fail to assess their own games accurately?

A: Absolutely. Most people are not 100% honest with themselves. They actually expect knowledge to create good habits, rather than doing the work necessary to become efficient with their golf swings and with their habits. Most people are not willing to go through the changes that are necessary to really make changes. They want to hear the information, but they expect that alone to create the change rather than make the effort that’s necessary.


Jim has a number of thoughs on why but I'll save those for another day.
I really am looking forward to them!

It seems to me that this applies to pretty much everything in life, not just golf, skiing, or sports in general...
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
I really am looking forward to them!

It seems to me that this applies to pretty much everything in life, not just golf, skiing, or sports in general...
Not from this interview but:

"The answer lies in the dirt", Ben Hogan
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