Incorrectly tuned edges , and how to fix them

If I knew the answer I'd be glad to recommend it.

Your side edge bevel was fine although if you want more bite on ice go to a 3. Your base has much too much bevel.

Slalom skis should have a .5 degree or a 1 degree. I use a 1 degree on my Atomics.

In order to fix your skis you must now have them professionally stoneground to return them to a flat base edge. I would then have the shop tune them for you. A 1 degree base and 2 degree side edge should be fine. but you might wnat check with HEAD about their suggested edge angles. www.tognar.com has some tuning tips. Somewhere on the web there is a chart as to suggested manufacturer's bevels, but I I don't remeber the link. Maybe someone else knows what it is.

One advantage of trying a .5 degree base bevel, is you could change to a 1 degree if you don't like it. If you start with a 1 degree you can't go back to a .5 without stonegrinding your skis again!

The shop you have do the tune should now what your bevels should be.

Over & out!

Atomicman. skier formerly known as Volklman

Si with the Wind MF!

[ November 20, 2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]

I don't know any specific angles for Head, but they are guidelines anyway.
Though... figuring they are slalom sticks and things were and probably are usually going to be hard/icy, yes you did go nuts.
Max 1 degree on the base and 2-3 degrees on the side would be reasonable. You made the base angle too steep. Since I am shop phobic, I would sand (silicon carbide paper); starting with 80 grit and working back to 180 or so. Then see if I could set a 1 degree on the base. But if it is too "strong" you might have to get it stoneground.
With the 2 degree base angle the skis are taking more angle
from your feet, knees, legs, hips... to bite. That is a base angle you might find in SG or DH racing. And they are looking for a base that won't catch on flatlining.
So, maybe your best bet is getting a stonegrind.
And when you are in the shop, get the Swix Alpine Manual.
(If you don't have it)

Good Luck......careful....

Perhaps you could adjust your skiing technique by increasing the lateral amplitude of your feet (as John J suggests) - until you get the $50 to get the skis stone-ground. If you have set the base bevel at 2 degrees for both edges on each ski, that's about as much as can be done. I am by no means an expert, but I think maybe a higher riser plate would help - there is a good explanation why in LeMaster's book, "The Skier's Edge" - a good book, BTW.

Basically, what you have now is a 90-degree edge rotated 2 degrees up (if your ski is sitting on its base - down if you are looking at the base from above). What I guess you could do to get a better grip on ice is increase the side bevel to 3 degrees. That would give you an 89-degree angle rotated 2 degrees up. I wouldn't go to 4 degrees or up, as that would eat your edges too quickly (but I was told downhillers do that for real icy courses)

Of course, you want the lower side of the corner to be as horizontal as possible without biting the soft snow, as then even a slight rolling of your ankles will allow your skis to bite into the turn. That's where the stone grind comes in: it re-levels the bases - both the Ptex and the edge. Then you can reset the bevels correctly. Be very careful. Increment empirically by the smallest step on your tuning tool and only if you feel there is no other way to get a hold on ice.

Another trick that my instructor told me in a racing clinic was -- if you have firm racing boots - tighten them if the course is icy and loosen them when the course is soft.

[ November 20, 2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: AlexG ]

Sharpening will only keep the 2 degree base bevel or increase it beyond that.

Ascii art alert: ski base portrayed upside down!
___________
2/ \2
/ NOW \

__ __________ __

NEXT

___________
1/ \1
/ THEN \

The stone grind is cheaper by a fair bit than the tool you'd need to do it properly yourself, never mind the hassle.

If you really want the hassle, just flat file the whole ski with the most aggressive body file you can get until the entire edge is as shiny as possible. Key, *VITAL* here is to keep the file from bending even microscopically (which is where the proper tool comes in) but maybe you can get away with a kludge such as taping a snowboard-size panzer file to a piece of rebar to keep it stiff.

Good luck: Just like Pontius Pilate, I wash my hands of it.

[ November 20, 2003, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: comprex ]

2 deg. side will hold better on ice, if you want the best grip on ice, go for 0 base, 2 side, although .5 or 1 on the base will be a little more forgiving.

PMZ - Just keep in mind that your angle of the edge still will be the same 90 degrees when you go for (1,1). But from there, you can start tuning the side bevel until you get whatever works best for you. Just go in half-degree increments, don't jump. Whether (0.5base, 1side) would be better for racing on icy courses - it seems to make sense, but you may want to check with your local shop, see what they recommend: we seldom get ice here in CA. But you can always shave off that half a degree and make it (1,1) if it doesn't work out for you. It just gives you more freedom for the future. The skis will feel different, though.

[ November 20, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: AlexG ]

TRUE BUT WITH A 1 DEGREE BASE BEVE, THEY WILL ROLL ON EDGE MUCH MORE EASILY THAN WITH A FLAT BASE, AND SHOULD HOLD A LITTLE BETTER ON HARD SNOW WITH A 1 DEGREE SIDE EDGE IN SPITE OF THE FACT YOUR FINAL ANGLE IS 90 DEGRESS.

There's always the chance that you in fact weren't really able to get that base angle much past the 1 deg it probably started off with. You would have seen gobs of metal come off the file. And by the way, with (probably) new skis, what were you doing hacking at them with a file for? A touch-'o-diamond is enough most of the time to keep things happy unless you ski a lot of rock.

I disagree. It is very easy to over bevel your base edge and the difference is not GOBS of edge, the difference between 1 & 2 degress is not vey much in measurement.
It is 1mm. 1mm = a degree. But the difference is huge in how the ski performs.

A-man: Obstinate as always!

[ November 22, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Atomicman ]

I disagree. It is very easy to over bevel your base edge and the difference is not GOBS of edge, the difference between 1 & 2 degress is not vey much in measurement.</font>[/quote]VERY, VERY true.

ERR, only if the other side of that angle is about 58mm. We are NOT measuring 1 degree as an angle with origin point at the other edge. We are measuring the angle at the same edge, with the origin at the steel/PTex line. Thus, taking 2mm exposed steel as the base width, we get: tan(1 degree)*2mm= 0.035 mm!
Amen.