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Ski boots used with Carving snowboards?

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
What is your opinion on snowboards that use hardboots like ski boots and are good for carving? Are there any good boards for skiers that are thinking about crossing over to boarding? I remember years ago race boards could use ski boots, and now recently I've seen some carving boards and it looks interesting. Can you find used carving/alpine? boards used or do people just use them until there is no edge/base left? yes, I'm a skier and it feels strange posting in the snowboard section asking about snowboards but I think it may be fun so I had to ask
post #2 of 36
Carving/alpine boards are enjoying quite a resurgence. It's pretty cool to watch a someone practically lay on their side digging in a hard carve. It's definitely fun to watch. I don't think they use alpine ski boots though. The flex pattern is different. Then again I might be wrong. Check out www.bomberonline.com. It's all about hardbootin' it. I love the feel of softies but I ride with several guys in the bc that use ski mountaineering boots on their setup.
post #3 of 36
You can definitely use skiboots for alpine snowboarding. The crew at Whiteface in particular had a lot of people using their alpine boots for riding. They're more rigid than snowboard hardboots and somewhat limiting as a result, but can be very good for carving on groomed in particular if you use a very forward stance (bindings angled more towards the nose). Vlad on here last year had some posts talking about riding in ski boots, and searching on Bomber also addresses this.

You can find used gear, Bomber is in fact a good place to look for it. Think about how and where you want to ride and be realistic about number of days you'll be putting in before buying though. Some guys at Bomber are into long race boards and only carving on blue runs, nothing wrong with it if that's your thing and you'll be riding fast enough to flex that race board.. On the other extreme, there's a guy in Colorado who rides ski boots and soft alpine boards primarily all off-piste and on very steep runs, so his setup is very different from what many of the Bomber guys may use.
post #4 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ah, a site all about carving board stuff, thanks. The idea of having a carving board + use ski boots is one of the main things that was appealing. I could board or ski withouth having to swap boots. I'm not much into jumps/park stuff and like laying down big carving turns and generally on groomers though sometimes the area around here gets slushy/chopped up snow aswell. Powder...if we get any generally isnt very deep so that probably wouldnt be a problem.
edit:
The area where I'll be going is in southwest michigan..its a 7 minute drive from my house.. 240~250vert and the steepest hill is fairly short. The blacks around here probably are more like blues in other places from what I understand. I can get going pretty fast but caving on straight skis on the steeper hills only equals 2~3 big turns. On carving skis or snowboards with short turn radius that can carve at low~medium speeds...probably not much over 40mph on hard snow seems to fit what I need. I'll be using a hand held gps to see exactly how fast I actually go vs guessing. I like to be accurate when I say x mph, and not exagerating.
post #5 of 36
I've got a used Burton M6 with plate bindings that you can have. Just pay the shipping. I think it's a good one for you to get started on.
post #6 of 36
Thread Starter 
cool! sending pm
Edit:
could someone help me find a review on the board? Everyone is very helpful around here and very knowledgeable, I seem to have trouble finding a review on this board, thanks in advance
post #7 of 36
It's an asym board. Roughly 29/23.5/28.5 x 157.5cm. Effective edge 128 toeside, 138.5 heelside. OK, are you regular or goofy footed? This board can only be ridden by one of the above.
post #8 of 36
Thread Starter 
Well, I'd guess since I'm starting out normal is ...normal to choose? either way is fine though. Normal is with your left foot forwards correct?
post #9 of 36
How would you skateboard or surf? If you haven't done either, how would you slide if you ran up to and slid across a frozen puddle in your shoes? Both are normal, but regular is more common than goofy.
post #10 of 36
Thread Starter 
I can slide across ice or snow a little better with the left foot forward but my balance is pretty good and can slide right foot alright aswell. So preferably regular would be the right choice?
post #11 of 36
Carving boards are very, very fun. I don't think I'm quite done with it...

The folks at Bomber will probably steer you away from an asymmetrical board. I haven't used one myself. A newer freeride board would probably have better performance.

The one time I tried using ski boots on a race board, I was pretty limited in what I could do, even on the groomers. From what I've read, world cup racers who use ski boots modify them pretty heavily. I would strongly suggest getting a pair of hardshell snowboard boots if you plan on using a carving board. For one thing, being able to adjust your forward lean within a pretty wide range is probably necessary for a good stance. Also, the footprint of hardshell snowboard boots is smaller, allowing for reduced stance angles relative to the edge.

Mountaineering boots would work if you did a lot of hiking, and are probably preferable to alpine boots if they are unmodified.

Once I started using carving and race boards, I rarely rode my freeride boards. They work just fine in open powder, although the longer, stiffer boards can be difficult to ride in the trees. They are certainly a lot of fun on the groomers, at both low and high speeds. My favorite board for moguls was a tremendously stiff 180 cm GS board.
post #12 of 36
Yep, this board should suit you, regular footed. It's kind of wide, so it should be easy to learn on. If you like it, you might want to get a high performance carving board once you have the basics down. Or you may decide you want to get a freestyle set-up. You will have a better idea what is right for you when it comes time to spend some money.
post #13 of 36
Thread Starter 
Yes, thats a good idea...it'll help me see what my preferences are while starting out without spending alot of money upfront I also have a friend who's interested in this aswell. You may have just started the conversion of 2 people to the darkside...though, alpine type snowboarding is not your average snowboarding
post #14 of 36
Alpine is definitely not your average snowboarding but it is pretty kewl. I wouldn't sell out a soft boot setup. Having a pair of snowboard boots is not like have two pairs of alpine boots that cost you $600 or more. You can get really good snowboard boots well under $200. It's not nearly as big of an expense. Still, whatever you choose is all good. As long as you're getting out that is what matters.
post #15 of 36
Thread Starter 
I hear somewhat soft ski boots work alright in alpine boarding, its the super stiff ski racing boots that dont flex enough that have trouble. I could be wrong on that but thats what I've read, and my ski boots are size 28.5 ie mens 10 1/2 and are lange's and flex alright. And thanks for the heads up, I didnt know there was that big of difference in ski boot vs board boot prices, interesting.
post #16 of 36
post #17 of 36
Thread Starter 
cool, that link is saved in my hotlinks now lots of good info on alpine carving
post #18 of 36
Frogman,
You'll get this info at Bomber and the other hard boot sites, but definitely use a softer ski boot for hardbooting if you are going to use ski boots. I've gone both routes boot-wise and prefer to use a SB hard boot rather than ski boots, but for getting started it is a good way to go.
Have fun.
post #19 of 36
Thread Starter 
My ski boots are fairly soft, they are somewhat old lange boots. They have some flex adjustments in the tongue aswell. I can flex my boots better than when I first got them..because I'm perhaps 20lbs heavier~stronger than quite a few years ago.
post #20 of 36
I've seen top level racers (on TV) sponsored by Rossi and Raichle using ski boots. These companies were making snowboard hard boots at the time, but the athletes chose to use the ski boots (this was a while ago, but...).

People will tell you it's not good to use ski boots, even your instructor may look askance (and you should get some instruction) but don't worry, there is nothing wrong with riding in ski boots.
post #21 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ah, that is interesting. I thought ski boots would work just fine and its good I talked with my friend recently on the phone and he was intrigued that he could use ski boots for snowboarding...never heard of alpine boarding. I had to explain it a little but yeah, he thinks its cool aswell. Lol on the potential weird looks from instructors, I'd probably just say something like..."what? you dont like oldschool carving snowboards?" or something like that heh. Anyways, perhaps later on if/when I get enough money I could get a different board and my friend could use this one. An interesting way to recruit 2 skiers to the darkside of the falline...I want to carve 360's :P
post #22 of 36
Ski boots are way longer than snowboard boots, meaning steeper angles and less power, or smaller angles.

I've seen people using modified skiboots in high level racing. But nowadays it's not worthwile anymore. There are very, very hard snowboard hardboots around. The only problem is that there are no plug snowboard boots, meaning no grinding. Skiboots were mostly used with SB bindings with loads of heellift to compensate for the small Ramp angle compared to the usual rocker found in SB Softboots. Especially for a beginner I wouldn't recommend them.
post #23 of 36
Thread Starter 
Dont the heel lifts also act like racing plates/carving plates for skis? It would make sense with very narrow boards. I'll probably be just fine though with a slightly wider board.
post #24 of 36
Oh Sorry I ment rocker in SB Hardboots like in Raichles obviously. And no high plate bindings are not like plates on skis, as the goal is normally not to be "over" the edge at all, or to a maximum of 1cm - compared to the usual 2cm minimum on skis that are allways there.
For very low carving on softsnow even retraction of around 50mm are wise.
post #25 of 36

Generous beta and gear

TeleRod--what a helpful and generous offer!

WildFrog--If the asym doesn't work out because you ride with the other foot in front, you might post a similar thread on BOL.

Seems that on that site, there are folks who, like TeleRod, have offered help and equipment to those looking to get into ripping high performance arcs.

FWIW. Have fun.
post #26 of 36
Extremecarver, Are you refering to the toe/heel overhang or height/lift above the edge?

I used ski boots with this board and it worked pretty well. It's wide, so I had to use a pretty sideways stance to get my boots to overhang a cm(?). It's more of a freecarve set-up as opposed to alpine/race, but should be ok for beginner, right? Might be easier to learn on than a full on race board?

I haven't sent him the board yet, I think I can get it done this week, frogman.
post #27 of 36
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the heads up on shipping time, I was just about to pm you. The wider boards I hear work better for an all around board. Race boards dont do as good in powder or slush but do better at higher speeds on hardpack/ice. The areas I'll be skiing should fit the burton m6 board with my experience well.
post #28 of 36
Thread Starter 
I got the board today I found how to adjust the bindings...it was simple once I saw them, I really like how they can be adjusted easily.
post #29 of 36
Great, enjoy! Set them up so the boots hang a tiny bit over the edge, extremecarver knows his stuff, try a one cm. overhang.

Don't try to think about what stance angles you might like to try (well, you can experiment, but) the angles are determined by how long your boot is and the width of the board. Your toe and heel need to be over the edge, so you can apply pressure to the edge efficiently. The wide board I sent you will require more sideways angles than you might see on other hardboot set-ups. That should make the learning easier than on a narrow board with forward angles.

I rode that board on all kinds of terrain (up to black diamonds at Jackson Hole) and conditions, bumps, powder, it will go there. It probably will take two or three days before you can link two turns together, the learning curve is steep at first, don't dispair, you will get out of it what you put in.

It needs some edge sharpening especially before you try to ride ice. Avoid icy conditions at first, try to have soft, well groomed snow to start.
post #30 of 36
Oh yeah - I meant boot overhang, not lift.

I prefer standing rather close to the board, with few lift. Off course for racing I put a bit higher lifters under my bindings, especially if the course is rather flat.

1cm Boot overhang is never wrong - until you try to put up your board near 90° to the snow and start body/extremecarving. Then 1cm is too much.

Oh and the biggest mistake I see around are too big boots. Nearly all snowboarders could with the help of a bootfitter downsize 2 sizes easily.
Just remember - the smaller your boot compared to your foot, the closer you can get with your toe and heel to the edge without boot overhang, ergo more power. Sometimes I really wonder how many snowboarders speak about shortest boot and how few actually really go to see a bootfitter as well with softboots to achieve short boots.
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