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How to get Lateral?

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
Everyone hears: Get Lateral! Get Lower! Get the skiis out from under you.

There are some articulate and erudite skiers on this forum. I would like someone to translate into language the triggers and moves for getting the skiis out and the hip down low to the snow in a GS turn. Sucking up the inside knee; extending the outside ski? I am a constructed skier having learned as an adult and learning to race even later in life. Concepts are vital to me. Do as I do instruction without the language doesn't work for me. Any translators out there?

Also, recommended drills?
post #2 of 64
There is no easy answer to this I am afraid, since getting the CM moving inside and in front of the turn (in the direction of the next one) requires coordination, balance and timing. So let me point out some of the things people do that tend to prevent them from going "lateral" in order to get to the things that will get you lower.

a) Passive skiing: any type of skiing that is passive (ie. reacting to the forces once they've thrown you out of balance, rythmn, etc.) will prevent you from moving the CM down the hill and into the turn. This can cover a broad range of issue such as lack of upper/lower body separation, incorrect fore/aft balance, banking, etc. I see aggressive skiing not as being aggressive, but as being neutral: you can do anything you want anytime you want it because you are in a position that allows you to do so (ie. the CM is always moving downhill from one turn to the other).

b) Lack of early edge angle: wether we're talking about asymetry or incorrect pressure or anything of the sort. The skier who can go inside will be the one who is patient, yet proactive in his transition. While using the g type turn, it is my belief that both crossover and crossunder should be used, wich means a very strong down unweighting motion (one of the key aspect of a successful transition since it will put your legs in neutral and allow them to exchange role (outside/inside) quicker and more efficiently. I see a lot of coaches telling kids: "get your outside leg small at the end of the turn" or "get your inside leg long" while, in reality, they should say "get your legs in neutral and then make them switch role". Inclination should also begin as soon as the down unweighting phase is finished in order not to stop the flow of the CM from one turn to the other and to tap into the "torque" produced by the counter rotational movement of the upper/lower going into the new turn.

c) Lack of continuons movement: a great coach once told me to ski like I would if I was runing from a lion. Why? To keep me moving, because once you stop to run, you're dead. A lot of people when they think go lateral will throw themselves at the mountain or try to muscle their butt into the turn and then will wait for the ski bend and sidecut to carry them through the turn. The key to getting low is to continue to get low in the fall line and to finish the turn at your lowest. Many times I've seen capable skiers who give it all as soon as possible and end up stalling their turn. Be patient, the first phase of the turn should not be botched as a successfull entry into the turn will yield a more stable platform due to the CM being just in the right place to counteract the forces built up by the increased edge angle than if you try to get too low too soon.

d) Correct alignement of the ankle, knees and hips. Many people will rotate the hips in order to start the turn in the hopes that this will get them more inside movement. While this will work to initiate the turn, it is a very poor maneuver. Try it at home. Stand on both feet and rotate the butt. See your feet lifting ever so slightly? This is as much edge angle as turning the butt will get you. This move also puts the outside ski farther away from your bigger muscles and makes pressuring it adequately even harder. It is my belief that a VERY STRONG commitment to the outside is necessary during the race turn. This is not to say that the inside ski doesn't have an important place, not at all, since it should also carry some weight in order to inscrease its bend and carve. How much is dependant of the turn and tactics. So, avoid rotating the hips and inside use your waist to get "into the turn". Breaking at the waist should happen once you get to the second phase (fall line) to prevent "falling" on the inside, to keep pressure on the outside and to increase upper/lower separation.

So, some drills:
a) Forceful down unweigthing. Try to hit your face with your knees.
b) Footwork (skiing without poles, skiing on one ski, skiing on the oustide ski only, etc.)
c) Forward pole plant. This is especially important. I always advocate a double pole touch in gs for any terrain that isn't flat. If you aren't tucking it, you should be planting it since it will make the down unweighting phase asier and sill tend to prevent going Wbackset". But always remember that you should initiate pole plant with the WAIST. This is somewhat strange, but remember to pull the waist first to prevent you from only hunching and staying in the old turn.
d) Roller blade carves. These are really good for edge pressure and control. Try to mess around with the first phase of the turn. Make it very quick or very slow. Increase or decrease edge ankles using the ankles during the turn, etc. The last exercise is especially good and will show you how it is important to use the ankles and not just the hips at initiation by how much angle you'll be able to get.
e) Double pole plant on the inside of the new turn (normall called the Norwegian pole plant). This insures that the CM will go downhill after a neutral period. Also aids in the simultaneous movement of the feet since it will force you to let go of the ouside pressure of the new turn.

PS: I have seen many skiers not being able to get inside because their boots were too stiff laterally for them. Yep, you heard me right. This is why the Solly had all the little holes: to facilitate inside movement. Make sure that you are able to flex the boot to the inside and not go A frame since the leg shaft ski boot/ski interface should always form a 90 degrees angle.

Whew, that was lengthy and probably not a whole not more instructive than what you were used to, but at least I tried
post #3 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post
Everyone hears: Get Lateral! Get Lower! Get the skiis out from under you.

There are some articulate and erudite skiers on this forum. I would like someone to translate into language the triggers and moves for getting the skiis out and the hip down low to the snow in a GS turn. Sucking up the inside knee; extending the outside ski? I am a constructed skier having learned as an adult and learning to race even later in life. Concepts are vital to me. Do as I do instruction without the language doesn't work for me. Any translators out there?

Also, recommended drills?
I've never like telling skiers to "get lateral! Get lower! Get the skis out from under you." More often than not it leads to banking and a lateral pushoff. They're actively trying to push the skis out instead of allowing them to go there naturally.

Instead, I focus on actively sending the body into the turn, allowing the skis to come underneath (and out), which extends the body at the apex of the turn. Leveling the shoulders puts weight primarily on the outside ski, while pulling the inside foot back keeps the hips forward and the inside ski actively engaged.

How low? That completely depends on the speed and the turn itself- among other issues. The fastest skiers don't put themselves in a "position" and go fast, they use certain movements to manage and compensate for the forces they are experiencing.
post #4 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
The fastest skiers don't put themselves in a "position" and go fast, they use certain movements to manage and compensate for the forces they are experiencing.
You mean it's not like the "action pose" in football... you know, the one that if you do it right you're a star running back.
post #5 of 64
I call one of my favorite drills the Heisman. Does that count?
post #6 of 64
I hope I'm not an uninvited guest here, but the title caught my eye. I developed a simple for myself a few years ago to help myself create higher angles and get farther inside the turn. first as the other posters have said laterla movemetns should come as a result of othings you do, not as an end in itself.

My focus is simply to focus on both feet and moving them in different directions. Think of seperating the feet on a perpendicular plane to the ski. As move into the new turn I focus on moving my heels (feet) away from each other, along a plane perpendicular the skis. Outside heel away from my butt and inside heel towards my butt. The inside heel towards the butt, gives the flexing foot direction and for me eliminates the need to think of flexing the inside leg and pulling the foot back as two seperate focuses. The other advantage I found in this for me is that it helps develope a strong inside half as it tends to give direction to the inside of the core(pelvis) as well. The outside heel away from my butt helps a long strong leg develope and keeps the ski engaged in the snow progressively as the ski moves on it's path away from the body.

As other posters have also said, keeping these movements continuos and deliberate will enhance their effect and allow more finesse and versatility in the outcome. The outcome of this focus for me is the development of nice high edge angles and nice smooth flow diagonaly into the turn. later, RicB.
post #7 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
I call one of my favorite drills the Heisman. Does that count?
There you have it then! Do the Heisman and your students collect their medals.

Somehow I have a feeling the "heisman" isn't a static exercise...
post #8 of 64
Great input RicB - always get something out of you posts.

My thoughts are that angles and lateral are not "made", at least during the turn ... they develop very early in the turn. Kind of like setting a corner stone. You'll know if you got it right when you step back and look at the wall.

Find the problem early enough and the wall comes out OK, but the correction will be on display forevermore. Isn't it comforting to know we're not building walls when we ski.
post #9 of 64
wta55,

Something to keep in mind; the concept is not really to get the feet/skis out from under the body, as the saying might suggest. The advice really should be to get the body inisde of feet/skis.

The skis are simply tipped on edge and pressured so as to initiate a carve, then you ride the arc the carving skis produce. They should not be pushed laterally away from the body.

What you really want to do as you put the skis on edge is to move your hip to the inside of your skis. This helps to tip the the skis onto a high edge while simultaneously putting the Center of Mass in a location which will balance the centrifugal forces the turn will create.

As a method for doing this, try making your first move a lateral inward tipping of the inside foot/shin. This inside foot/shin tip will tend to pull your hip along with it toward the inside of the coming turn, drop the hip and keep it relatively perpendicuar to the base of the skis which maintains a strong structural body position, and pull the outside ski on edge in unison with the tipping inside ski.

The more you tip and flex your inside leg, the higher edge angle you'll be able to attain. Just remember; as the inside leg gets short, the outside leg gets long.
post #10 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
I call one of my favorite drills the Heisman. Does that count?
Mike, picturing in my mind what that trophy looks like, I'm assuming the Heisman is your name for what is otherwise known as the Schlopy drill?
post #11 of 64
Same drill. I was first taught it by a Canadian, then had it reinforced by an Austrian and a Norwegian with no name applied, so I just called it the Heisman after one of the athletes said that's what it reminds them of. It can be applied in so many ways that I find it's the one drill I come back to again and again.
post #12 of 64

Skiing Language....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post
Everyone hears: Get Lateral! Get Lower! Get the skiis out from under you.

There are some articulate and erudite skiers on this forum. I would like someone to translate into language the triggers and moves for getting the skiis out and the hip down low to the snow in a GS turn. Sucking up the inside knee; extending the outside ski? I am a constructed skier having learned as an adult and learning to race even later in life. Concepts are vital to me. Do as I do instruction without the language doesn't work for me. Any translators out there?

Also, recommended drills?
Hello,
I completely understand your frustration about that. The language is certainly not very well handled and rather desribes somebody's experience that does not really do much for others. E.G.: Hip down low and legs out makes most skiers simply shift their weight towards the inside leg/ski, which would be a horrible thing to do since you do not get much of a turn out like that.
There are many drills out there, but if it is ok I would just simply tell you the basics in skiing that everyone has to or should perform well.


The basic alpine position is a position which compensates for the inclination of the
slope. This position comprises of bending to the side and the front, the mountain ski is
slightly in front of the valley ski, hips and legs are bent inwards in the direction of the turn,
the outer ski is weighted down more, the ski poles are held to the side and away from the
body and the ankle, knee and hip joints are kept as parallel as possible.

Also the forward/downward lean which is often described as an inclination is part of the fundamentals as well as the rotation and counter-rotation. Know that you do not incline, all you do is to stand in balance with the forces, you never incline since that means you would move onto the inside ski wich is considered an error.




Now how "low you set your hip or how far you get your legs out" is simply decided by everyone's physical built and is therefore known as the individual style. The same counts for the arms position. It has nothing to do with the actual skiing technique.



I hope I did not frustrate you too muc h and be happy to explain things better. (If I can)
Have a nice season.
post #13 of 64
Here is my free advice, worth everything you pay for it. I've tried to put it in roughly declining order of usefulness/increasing order of controversy, as there are some bad habits/controversial habits/limiting techniques/limited drills rather than finished techniques promoted at the end.

1. Ski on slalom skis. That's it. With a 12 meter sidecut instead of 18 (supercross) or 21 (GS) you can really practice much more dynamic angles at the same speed. Even if, for you, slalom is a foreign language (it's somewhere between Arabic and Mandarin for me. GS is at least a romance language and Super-G, my native tongue) practice on slalom skis to really get the feel for those high edge angle turns.

2. Get forward at turn initiation. There are a limited number of things we can do to tighten our turn arc. Along with strapping on slalom skis with their shorter-radius-turn sidecut, getting forward at turn initiation increases the reverse camber (bend) of the shovel of the ski, tightening the radius of the turn. The tighter the radius of the turn, the greater the resulting force from a change in direction as your momentum generates G forces pushing your mass toward the outside of the turn. Then you naturally position your body more to the inside to stack skeletally against this force. Viola! (Or, since Austrians ski better than the French--or the rest of us--let's say Jawohl! Or Achtung! Or Mein Gott!)

3. Listen to your good turn. If you're like a lot of us, one of your turns (left or right) is better. That's even more pronounced and noticeable when you strap on slalom skis. (Is for me, anyway.) Pay attention to that difference. What do you do differently to generate those bigger edge angles smoothly on the good turn? Cool. Now exaggerate that better technique and apply it to both turns. For most of us, what we think is a big adjustment in technique is actually very minor, so for really applying a breakthrough technique to take your skiing to a higher level, you have to really exaggerate the new approach.

4. Practice balance training off the hill, and on the hill, when you're on the (relatively) flat sections, ski on one ski, making turns in both directions. There is no way you can turn right standing on your right ski without getting your body out to the right (inside of the turn) from your right ski. And many of the issues about generating high edge angles/displacement of mass to the inside of the turn are issues about balance, comfort zone, and fear. Better balance means better.

5. In the gates, get a really powerful start, and use (when appropriate) a high fluoru overlay. That seems like pretty irrelevant advice for getting big edge angles, but I've actually thought this one through, complete with turn 3 pictures of the fast guys in our league vs those of us with (*cough*) "emerging skills". The faster you are going at the top of the course, the greater the G force generated on those first turns and the greater the bend in the shovel of the ski generated by the change in momentum. The higher edge angles of the much better racers are sometimes as much a product as a cause of faster skiing at that point. And the reason people use those fluoro overlays that dissappear mostly after the first few gates is that the speed they get on those first few gates, they carry for the rest of the race, and they use to generate tighter turns through greater reverse camber and greater angles.

6. Practice "snowboarder" turns. As you're ripping those high-G tight turns in practice, try to tap the ground on the inside of the turn with your inside hand. It's fun, it means you are close to the ground, and it's even a potential new skill. You will find later that if you mess up with a high edge angle/high outside leg displacement turn and get boot out or bounce out with your outside leg, a well timed punch against the ground with your inside hand will bounce you up and keep you on course and waxed side down. But don't confuse this snowboarder turn itself with good technique (although one of the French World Cup guys who has won a few GS races regularly uses his inside pole as a cat's whisker on the snow for balance.) It's just a confidence builder/attempt to get you the feel of the steep edge angle turn.

7. Don't fall onto the inside ski. For most of us, simply endlessly repeating the grim mantra "must...get...outside...ski...away...from...bo dy" just leads to immediate falling onto the inside ski as we try too hard or just lean in (which is, frankly, what is promoted by the drill in 6 above.) You'll know when it happens, because the insufficiently pressured outside ski immediately takes off on you shortly before your racing initials become DNF. There are a bunch of ways to avoid this: Separation of upper and lower body (hip angulation) and on slalom skis even knee angulation allow you to stack weight over the outside ski despite a high edge angle. One way to emphasize this is to do the opposite drill from the snowboarder turn in 6 above--get as close to the snow with your outside hand as possible during the turn. I find counter helpful, but it risks excessive inside tip lead and many of the modern top racers use less counter than old school technique.

Caveat: I am working on this issue myself, rather than someone who has mastered it ("Ich bin ein Hack und Schplatt geschpieler") and these are my notes from the front on this ongoing battle, not the history of a successful campaign.

Good luck.
post #14 of 64
I know you asked for simple concepts so I will just say this....getting lateral is obviously about the stuff people talked about above...BUT most importanly it is about having the forces large enough in the turn, that the exteme lateral moves you are aiming for are needed.

Now here is the point: Those forces that the guys work with that get REAL lateral (ie: top notch racers) come from gravity AND the ski energy they captured from the LAST TURN. Hence the more ski energy you capture...the more forces you have in the next turn...means the more lateral you will be...means the more forces you generate...which if you capture...will get you more lateral in the next turn...and so on.
post #15 of 64
I found these articles helpful:

www.youcanski.com/en/coaching/modern_technique.htm

Lots of things that inter-relate in order to get those high edge angles. It's something i'm working on too for my instructor exams, and it's not easy esp. if like me you learnt to ski and race a bit in the late 80s.

I sometimes think about it being a continous pedalling movement.
post #16 of 64

I like what SFDEAN says above...

...this is a pretty comprehensive and reasonable approach to getting with the program we're all discussing here. In our Masters training program, most of us do the same thing when we're trying to get a new move down...use slalom skis.

I'll suggest the opposite also, which is my advice to all the slalom-only jocks on our team. Namely, every once in a while...or maybe more often than that...it's a really good idea to find some open, buffed out, intermediate terrain with some terrain changes and get on a pair of SGs or DHs, 195 cm. or longer. Remember, what we're trying for in all events is finding the appropriate angles/pressure/timing. It's not always true that more is better.

The application of angles/pressure/timing is different for long radius turns, but the the principles are the same. I was talking with the local Fischer rep about a month ago, and I agree with what he was saying about speed events for juniors, which is that it requires and teaches patience. Try some turns in a tuck. It's the best thing in the world to find out how to finesse the start...and the middle...and the end of the turn so that you carve a turn, instead of skidding it or jamming on the edges so that you have to back off and make 3 or 4 micro turns instead of one...

For my thoughts on the subject, see:

http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles...1-Speed101.pdf
post #17 of 64

What is this drill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Mike, picturing in my mind what that trophy looks like, I'm assuming the Heisman is your name for what is otherwise known as the Schlopy drill?
Can you please explain this drill in details?
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensMan View Post
Can you please explain this drill in details?
Here's something I wrote on it a while back. If you need more info, just ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
The Schlopy drill is excellent for working on counter and angulation. Ditch the poles. Outside hand goes on outside hip and pushes hip into turn. Inside shoulder is kept high. Inside hand is driven forward at shoulder height, elbow extended. Inside knee is driven into the turn to maintain edge angle symmetry. Give it a try.
post #19 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Originally Posted by Rick
The Schlopy drill is excellent for working on counter and angulation. Ditch the poles. Outside hand goes on outside hip and pushes hip into turn. Inside shoulder is kept high. Inside hand is driven forward at shoulder height, elbow extended. Inside knee is driven into the turn to maintain edge angle symmetry. Give it a try.
Rick,
What do you think about advantages/disadvantages of version of the same drill when outside hand instead of going to the hip touches outside boot? Do you use it? When would you use one or another?
post #20 of 64
Similar drill, but for people with less lateral flexibility the boot drill can lead to extreme countering and breaking at the waist.

The Schlopy/Heisman drill is cool because it can be used to reinforce several things at once. The inside hand is driving down the hill and held up, which encourages committing to the turn and leveling the shoulders. The hand on the hip keeps the hips forward, prevents excessive countering, and gives another focal point for lateral movement (that pinch).
post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensMan View Post
Rick,
What do you think about advantages/disadvantages of version of the same drill when outside hand instead of going to the hip touches outside boot? Do you use it? When would you use one or another?
I use it on occasion, but it's not one of my favorite. I agree with Alaska Mike. The outside boot touch drill is designed to encourage angulation, but it can produce some pretty funky stuff; knee angulation, over flexion of the outside leg, massive counter, bending forward at the waist. My feeling is it's a good drill for developing versatility, but it is not a great drill for encouraging ideal body positions and movement patterns. The Schlopy/Heisman drill, on the other hand, is fantastic for producing good positions and patterns.
post #22 of 64
I agree 100%.
Two athletes can perform the touch in two totally different ways
post #23 of 64

another drill

Another drill to get into this position is to have the athlete ski in a good body position and drag both ski pole tips on the snow, about even with or a little bit behind the binding of each ski.

To get the outside pole tip to drag, the athlete needs to get into a position very similar to the schlope drill.
post #24 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55;567477For my thoughts on the subject, see:

[URL
Ummmm,...none of the video links in your pdf work! is that to be expected?
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by wta55 View Post
Everyone hears: Get Lateral! Get Lower! Get the skiis out from under you.

I would like someone to translate into language the triggers and moves for getting the skiis out and the hip down low to the snow in a GS turn.
Ultimately, it's about creating, then balancing on, radical edge angles.
Get the skis up on the sidewalls before you enter the fall line. Tip so much at turn entry that you feel like your inside ski boot buckles will touch the snow as you enter the fall line.

Maintain that radical edge angle through fall line exit.


This photo (Courtesy agence-zoom) of K. Palander (FIN) shows that by tipping the skis over ALOT gets the hip lower and the 'feet out'. Above, he just entered the fall line.

It's all about tipping the skis. No, Tip em more, no, we mean more. Tip 'em MORE!

Get 'em up on edge earlier and higher in the turn than you ever imagined.

Tip from the feet. As your feet tip more, trust. You'll be inside and lower. Pretty? Don't worry about it. Tipping over. HaHa! You fell! Get up and tip em more. It'll bring up new questions after you've laid it over too far a few times.
post #26 of 64

Radical Inclination

OK--pasted below is the URL for my new toy for understanding physics of skiing (which I found on another EpicSki thread)

http://www.natew.com/frame_main.cgi/...snow/html.Main

Go down to the "biomechanical engineering" heading, click on it, and it pulls up a calculator. On that calculator, when you enter the three variables at the top of sidecut radius, inclination, and angulation, it spits back carved turn radius, the speed you would be balanced perfectly stacked against the skis/board in that turn, and the number of Gs you would be resisting during that turn.

I urge you to go play with it, plugging in 12 meter (SL) 18 meter (supercross) 21 meter (GS) and 33 meter (SG) skis and a variety of inclinations and angulations before we go on. Fun, huh?

First, limitations: (A) the turn radius/G force calculator ignores technique adjustments that might tighten the turning radius (loading the shovel in the front of the turn and the tail at the end; any tighter carving that the MSRT guys achieve from the "screw down" or other) and (B) it is really easier, probably, to calculate "inclination" for snowboards, where it's probably easier to see the boarder as stacked in relation to the pressured inside edge, than it is to see where the center of balance is for a skier at a phase of the turn where an unknown X% of the weight is over the outside ski and an unknown 100-X% is stacked over the inside ski.

But what it does say is:

(1) that you cannot get radical pure inclination turns in balance unless (A) you are skiing on skis with a shorter radius (slalom boards) or (B) you are going really fast, or (C) both.

and

(2) it's really physically taxing to do high-edge angle turns, because (A) you make LOTS of turns per distance traveled (very short turning radius) and (B) you are stacking against LOTS more force (as LeMaster has said elsewhere, when the racer goes from 60% inclination to 70% inclination, the G forces go from 2 to almost 3. For a 175 lb racer, that means resisting 525 pounds of force with 80% of your weight on the outside leg for part of the turn.)

Implications:

(1) like I said above, high edge angle turns are easier with slalom skis, because you can do them going not nearly as fast.

(2) if you are not going fast enough for a pure inclination turn given the sidecut of the skis you are wearing, trying to do a pure inclination turn will simply cause you to fall onto the inside ski. If you want to increase the edge angle beyond what you can achieve in a pure inclination turn (and thus shorten the turning radius despite not having enough speed for a pure inclination turn at that speed) you can do so by increasing angulation. (Including by separation of upper body from lower body through a break at the hip, like the one reinforced by the Schlopy/Heisman drill discussed further above).

More implications later. In the meantime, I understand the lifts at A Basin have been running for a week now, so happy ski thoughts to all.

SFDean.
post #27 of 64
Good stuff, SF.

But gee, isn't the mantra "ski the slow line fast"?
post #28 of 64

heck, some times my fast line is slow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by whygimf View Post

But gee, isn't the mantra "ski the slow line fast"?
As I understand that mantra, it's useful (much of the time) for getting you to smoothly carve your turns and then get back in balance, picking up only a little speed mostly across the hill before arcing another of your tightest turns under the circumstances without excessive skidding, all good.

It's not much direct practice for the slalom course, though, and one of my new theories (they grow like weeds in the snow-less summer) is that I really need to ski more like I race, some times. It's pretty much a constant that we racers all like to go fast. And really cranking quick turn after quick turn (like you'd do on a slalom course, with actual pivot entry turns and ripping right into another one) is a HUGE thigh burner. And we all like that effortless feel of just stacking against the Gs and arcing smooth turns.

The result? As least for me, that means when I'm free skiing on slalom skis I'm really arcing GS turns, and when I free ski on the GS skis, I start skiing like I'm going through a Super-G course. As the Masters coach at Sugar Bowl gruffly suggested before the slalom course opened up, in free skiing "make sure you actually make a bunch of turns..."
post #29 of 64
post #30 of 64
SFDean, your post 26: everything sounds spot on.
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