Preventing the "I've skied once" syndrome - Page 3

My first day on skis was last year, at the age of 36. My wife always skied growing up and when she was in college. She always wished I skied too. I always told her "if we ever have kids, I'll learn to ski so we can all go". Well, our daughter was 3 last winter, so I gave it a shot.

I was hooked within my first hour on skis.

I took a lesson at Crotched Mountain with a very good instructor. After 2 trips down the bunny slope he had me on the chairlift up to the easiest trail. I skated as a child, he said skaters usually can learn to ski easily. I fell twice on my first run, not at all on my second. The hour was up, but I took 4 more runs alone before heading home.

I went again a few days later with my wife, then again alone to practice. After about 10 trips to Crotched and Pat's Peak, I tried Sunapee -- wow. Now I really wanted to learn. Bought ski's and boots, went to Bretton Woods. In March we went to Quebec City and skied at Le Massif (actually had my first bad day on skis there. Mashed potatoes and absurdly crowded).

Ended my season with a visit to a friend who lives in LA. Like my wife, he always wished I skied. When I told him I learned he bought me a plane ticket out there and we went to Mammoth at the end of April -- they still had a 17 foot base!

At the age of 36 I went from my first day on skis to awkwardly handling a black diamond at Mammoth mountain in 4 months flat. And I am by no means in great shape, or even good shape. I think skiing is like pretty much anything else -- if you really want to do it you will find a way. I cannot wait for the snow to fall.

mckay's post rings true to me. First day on skis at age 23. Past poor history in sports. Skiing's learning curve is fast compared to sports like golf and tennis. If you're motivated you will make progress. All it takes is a sensible combination of periodic lessons, some reading, and mainly just getting in the mileage. I never did exercise workouts until I wanted to do them as a means of skiing better.

Nice first post!! Welcome aboard. Agree that skating gives you a leg-up, and having some athletic ability doesn't hurt either. Some people just don't get skiing, fear + cold + falling down - money = NO FUN.

I had tried skiing in college, but was 'taught' by a friend, in between her own runs down the double blacks, of course. So, therefore, I didn't enjoy it too much. Not that I hated it. I just was terrible, and therefore I didn't consider really getting into skiing.

Until I graduated and entered the real world, and voila! I had a real income! I started of thinking what I could do that I'd always wanted to, and I got really into rock climbing.

It's still my main passion, but rock climbing eased my way into a completely different life than I was used to. It was, most simply put, that mountain culture.

A friend of mine from cycling mentioned once that she sufferes from AOA. Adult Onset Athleticism, and to me that made so much sense. I was always the non-athletic, band geek smart girl in high school. I never thought of sports as something I could get into. I was never encouraged to get into sports, like my brothers were (we won't even go there).

But with my entry into rock climbing, I realized my body could do things that I had never thought it could. The idea of skiing came back to me. Mostly because I needed something that could keep me outside during the winter. I was determined to do a complete 180 from the couch potato I had been, and with that determination came a fierce will to enjoy skiing.

So, like others mentioned, I gave myself no choice. I would like skiing. And I did! Even though most of my friends were much better skiiers than I was, it just gave me something to aspire to. And they were great. They'd let me do my own thing, but still build up my confidence (Come on, you can go down this bump run, just one bump at a time, and if you need to you can bail out halfway down) even if sometimes it didn't so much work. And I progressed, so much so that I was skiing by myself at night after work to feed the addiction.

But most people I talk to, well, investing that much time and energy (and yes, money) into progressing at a sport, they just don't see it as worth it. They want to spend their free time doing something 'fun'. Whereas I had come from the climbing background and knew that although something might be long and arduous and strenuous when you were doing it, in retrospect it could be great fun. It might not seem like it when you're freezing your butt of on a lift, or faceplanting on the ice, or pulling a sketchy move on an exposed face 15 feet above your last pro, but once you are through you feel more alive than ever before.

Not everyone can realize that feeling of exhileration and joy in movement and pure physical work, and maybe that's why they're only once or every-so-often skiiers. But those of us that can realize that, I think we're the ones that get hooked.

And I don't think there's any way for resorts to turn more people into the hooked kind, other than offering good beginner lessons so that people can progress a bit quicker and start enjoying their time instead of focusing on the hurt and embaressment of falling, because some people just don't have it in them.

K.

Is this part really necessary?

My balance is hopeless... I had hardly seen snow(well once bushwalking in spring when the season was late finishing) prior to learning to ski...
and I had no idea about sliding stuff... no ice at home in winter and dust and 40 degrees C does not slide well for the summer...

I don't think I fell ONCE on the first day.... or the second... maybe on the third or fourth...when I finally let go of the instructor I may have had a fall...

Private lessons can greatly reduce the risk of falling.... So for older folks with a problem with falling can be a good idea

If bruising is a problem - get them some padding(I have seen a snowboarder with same).... I try to take beginners in spring when everything is mush and they can be warm and have soft snow... otherwise sending them to lessons after the beginner slope softens is a help.... (at 1300metres or so it usually softens)

I've had a similar experience. My second time skiing I blew out my left knee, torn ACL and all. I was back on the slope the following year in December, and go every season. I skied just enough during this second trip, before tearing my knee, that I knew I'd be a skier for the rest of my life.

I don't recall any painful falls when we got started. I do recall that I started to skate on the skis, at which point the instructor made a comment about me being a skater, and I promptly fell in heap. To which his response was to clang his poles over his head and laught like hell. The early falls were few, slow speed, and not painful. I always hear that the first day or two on a snowboard can be pretty bruising.

My fourth day on skis resulted in a trip to my local trauma center with closed head injuries and a broken arm. As the other posters noted, this only made me more determined to be a better skier. The other injuries I have suffered over the years (all knee related) have had the same effect.

A funny story:
http://www.eons.com/body/feature/fitness/6580

My first year skiing I was age 50 and on my birthday on a warm spring March day at Stratton I took a lesson. Pretty much everytime I went skiing that year I took a lesson when I got to the slopes. It's a good way to know the mountain if I've never been on it before. Anyhoo, my group lesson involved falling. I was out of control, didn't know how to stop, edge or control my speed. And I wanted speed. I went flying. I counted 17 times that I fell in class, yardsales and everything. The group sang that song "I get knocked down and I get up again" for me on the ride up. One fall I bailed out heading for the trees, slide face first into the trees. My skis and lower half of my body still on the trail and my head and arms dangling in the soft unpacked snow. Pretty funny.
The group got wise and would insist to me at the top of the trail. "No you go first, no really" They knew I was dangerous, would wipe out, and that they could safely ski around me.
I think the temps rose to about the high forties or more. It was crowded that day, a midweek day, and the snow was like a giant slurppy. My skiing friends convinced me to ride the gondola up to the top and ski down that long green trail, west meadow. I swear on my mother's grave that I must of fallen about a 100 times. I stopped counting at around 50 and I still hadn't gotten half way down. And I was so out of shape I had to take my skis off each time to get back up. My friend followed me the whole way down. Poor thing, protecting me from people above me. And I remember there was this women in a shining green ski jacket snowplowing the whole way down. Since I was so out of control and wanted desperately to get off the mountain in a hurry I passed her a bunch of times. As I tried to gather my strength sitting in the reall wet snow there she was in perfect snowplow form, the perfect wedge, the arms out in front getting down the mountain.
I was one bruised mess that night. Saw some ski videos that evening and I was out the next day doing it again. And I was so much better. Still couldn't hockey stop to save my life.
Gotta want to do it. And I don't even roller blade to have any reference to. I knew I would love it. Got a balance board and I stopped falling all over the place. Now I'm on diamonds.
Ski and be Mary

Interesting question

I like reading everyone stories. I think it's to some extent just depends on the person you are.

My first time skiing was when I was 23 (2 years ago). Two friends took me to my 1 hour beginners ski package lesson and left me there while they "warmed up."

They came back mid-afternoon to find that I had graduated myself to the short green hill next door, tumbling a lot but having a blast. They knew the hills well and took me to the graduate green-to-blue hill. This was pretty important looking back because I didn't know where I could venture to without their guidance. It felt safer with them doing that first run down each new hill with me. They were patient enough to stop and stay with me each time I fell. Once I was at that biggest baddest green I didn't want to go back, I stayed there most of the evening trying to learn while they ran off again. We skied from when we got there (I think it was 11am) to about 8pm.

Since then I've been hooked. I still have a long way to go (now on blacks, but lots to work on and plenty more things I want to do to keep me going). I've also taken newbies to skiing, but unlike your friend Tracy I always take a couple and leave them to their first lesson with each others company, I come back and check up on them and sometimes can persuade them to try a harder hill. It doesn't always work for all. But for me, I found that once I tried a harder hill, the one before suddenly seem so much easier if you decide to go back.

Right clothing makes a lot of difference. One guy was wet and miserable after being in jeans (if I had known he I would have lend him some extra snowpants from friends). But rentals didn't put me off... realistically not many newbies will buy gear right away without trying it once to see if they like the sport. Ski gear isn't exactly cheap.

I also remembered I was touched by people stopping to ask if I was ok after my many ugly (or should I say spectacular) falls, people who helped pick up my gear that has flown far away, and that helped make it an easier experience the first and second time. The green slope felt really steep to climb up to fetch flyaway gear when you're new.

And I think money had something to do with it. I could afford and justify the cost since I had started my first job out of university. Before it was just a lot of money to spend for something I didn't know if I would like. I could be spending a lot for a day of being miserable and cold.

But once you are on that hill, I think it depends largely on the person and what they like. You can't learn without a few falls, and I am sure first time is always somewhat frigtening. But I actually like the fear I feel in my heart when I am trying something new and get put out of my element. And I discover after a few falls that hey, I can do it. It's very gratifying. and I keep pushing myself each time to try something new. I'm happier if I have fallen at least once each day that I go, because that means I'm pushing myself to try more than what I'm already capable of.

Hey everybody Don't mind the post count, I'll hopefully make up for it with quality content

I read through most of this thread, skimmed a little, and as far as I noticed I haven't seen this said yet, so I wanted to chime in:

If you're a skier, and you have a friend that you think would enjoy the sport, go one step further than getting them to the mountain to take a lesson. Take the lesson with them. If they're going to take your word and take the plunge, they'd likely benefit greatly from having a friend in close proximity. This avoids the pitfalls of trying to teach them yourself if you're not cut out for it, and it also ensures that the two (or several) of you are still spending the time together.

Keep in mind, I'm saying this already assuming that you are of a skill level beyond that which will be covered in your friend's lesson. Personally speaking, I love skiing in all forms, and equally love witnessing someone I care for fall in love with it too. It's not a chore to spend a couple bucks and a couple hours taking part in drills that don't challenge me, because I'm able to hold my friend's proverbial hand during the lesson. I've done this before for people, and before the lesson began I took the instructor aside and explained the situation to him; I volunteered to be a demonstration subject for the lesson, and ended up being able to provide a service to everyone else. That in itself is an easy way to have fun at a beginner's lesson. If you don't get the vibe that your instructor would be too keen on that idea, then keep quiet and actually take the lesson yourself. Think of it as a challenge from the opposite direction: how much of the fundamentals do you really remember? How many sloppy habits have you developed since you stopped taking lessons? Revisiting the basics always translates into a refinement of the advanced stuff. At the end of the day, you can still have a blast and your friend will be MUCH likelier to take a liking to it. After all, you were right there giving them a prime example of joy in skiing.

On another note, I wanted to chime in on Amish's point from earlier -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amish
I think most people today if given the choice to try skiing or boarding for the first time will choose boarding. Boarding is what people think of as "in". Thats how I see it anyway.

There's an additional element to this, I believe. I think many novices who try both sports are more likely to respond to snowboarding. While becoming an advanced skier and becoming an advanced snowboarder are equally difficult (my own opinion, and really just a hunch), I firmly believe that for a snow-sports first timer, it is much easier to become a "competent novice" snowboarder than it is to achieve the same success on skis. You can't cross your legs on a snowboard...

What this points to is that we skiers have an uphill battle on our hands when it comes to luring our friends to the two-plank approach. We just have to promise our buddies that once ya get over the hump, our aerial tricks look way cooler than theirs do

It's the Boots, Baby!

Skiing, like golf, is expensive and for some, difficult to get to mountains. Reasons people do not return:
1 Bad rental equipment, especially boots that don't fit. I personally cannot wear rental boots due to wide feet and calves
2. No lessons. In crazy NY, people go to the top and then ask me: "How do I stop?" I tell them to ride the lift down and take a lesson. Or, I stay out of the way!
3. It has a high frustration rate, like golf. Unlike golf, you can really hurt yourself.

I think the best way to create repeaters is to show them the beauty of the mountains. That is why I got hooked at the old age of 45.

"Frankly, my Dear, I don't give a damn ... " :

Who the heck really cares if they come back? The tour bus rolls in and they take the "obligatory .... came with the pakage", lesson.

They went into "The Lodge" ... and stripped off thirty layers of clothes and then retired to the bar and got hammered.

They then "pose" for the photo-op on the deck ....

Then, they go home.

Thank God ....

I have looked too many time up at the hill and watched our four black runs deserted, totally void of traffic at two in the afternoon. Then I look at the mob scene swarming "The Lodge". Do you think I really want those people up there cramming the available real estate?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ..... shut up already!

My wife took me skiing for the first time last year. We went to Snowbasin in UT. Before that trip, I had never enjoyed a vacation in my life. Growing up, my vacation experience has been comprised of boring sedintary activities such as, sitting on the beach with nothing to do, taking scenic tours of places I don't care about, and visiting grandmas... boaring! I would rather be working. But skiing is incredible; how could I have missed out on this my entire life. It is an awesome athletic challenge and just being in the mountains is an incredibly transindenalistic experience.

My wife has been skiing since she was 10; she is now 24 and I am 27. She told me that when she was learning, it took her 6 ski days before she was skiing blacks. I was determined to beat that; we are very competative. In the end, we tied at 6 days

Since our trip last march, I have been resarching this and other sites. I look forward to improving my skills this year and making skiing a regular activity for the rest of my life.

Going back to the original question of why the percentage of return skiiers is so low, IMHO it is the general laziness and mindlessness of Americans. Without immediate gratification, most people would rather spend a vacation eating cheezits in front of a big screen TV, or drinking coctails on the beach, than doing something that requires a little work.

Here's another reason some people only go once. Last year, near the end of the season, I tried to get a good friend of mine to learn how to ski so he could join in the fun. This friend of mine is someone who needs to be "cool" all the time. Being cool is very important to him.

Even though he had never been skiing and didn't know if he would like it, he went to a ski shop and bought the most expensive outfit they had. Honestly, I don't know how someone could even find a jacket and pants for over $400 in late February.

Anyway, as we all know, there is no way a person can look cool when they are learning to ski. To his credit, he gave it a shot. He took an hour lesson. He took the chairlift up to the top of the easiest trail. He almost crapped his pants heading for the woods off the lift. And that was it. I am quite sure he will never try skiing again.

Nothing seems to prepare people for the fact that skiing involves a lot of learning and effort. They seem to think that if they sign up for A Ski Lesson, that'll be it. They'll learn it all and then off they go. Cuttin' an' Mashin' as those Texans in Colorado used to say.

If they don't get "into it" the first time they try it, then they just fade away. It's too hard.

A question (rhetorical of course) I often ask people is "Who do you think takes the most ski lessons"? No one ever has a clue as to the answer which, of course, is: "ski instructors".

My parents, from Idaho, visited us in Alaska last winter. Dad's in his mid 50s with Mom not far behind. Dad had skied as a teen -- once -- and wanted to try it again (My wife and I have been addicted for a year, and we had encouraged Dad to give it another go). So we took Mom and Dad to our local ski area on Elmendorf AFB -- Hillberg. At best this is a beginner hill and a great place to learn. We paid for a lesson for Dad, and he had a wonderful time! Mom wasn't in the least bit interested and sat in the lodge the whole time.

But the next thing I hear after they returned to Idaho was that Mom had taken a lesson at Brundage and was now addicted as well! They're both relatively athletic in their own ways, but I wouldn't expect them to progress much past the intermediate stage as skiers. However, that's not the point for them. They're apparently having a blast toodling around on the bunny slopes and green runs -- together.

They don't have a lot of money, but Dad bought some used skis and boots last year, and we bought a season pass for Mom to a local ski hill. They both work far too hard during the week just to make ends meet, and I think that skiing provides them with some needed outdoor together-time in the winter -- and I wonder if THAT was the real reason that Mom took the plunge herself. Whatever reason, I'm glad they did. :

Cheers,

Now THAT'S a good story. Nice.

1. Bootfitting
2. Bootfitting
3. Bootfitting

Feeling out-of-control is not a feeling many people want more than once. I believe a lot of the inability to gain control on skis, especially for beginners, is because of ill-fitting boots.
Eliminate that and it's a whole new ballgame.

Unfortunately, the cost would be substantial.

good point - those darned rentals ... (sounding old again) "when I started..." they were rear entry - yuck! Please, no double entendres, this isn't TGR

The really important technical advance which I think would help skiing expand would be an automated, low cost bootfitting concept.

Must.... resist........ temptation............ to.......... arrrrgghh....... make...... funny......... remark........

Ouch, that hurt, but I did it. I can't promise I won't comment on a setup like that next time though.

being an out of towner and only getting out to the mtn 10 days a years max, the one piece of gear i wish i could afford is boots. I can only imagine what it feels like to have a pair that actually fit correctly! The amount of pain i have after my yearly trips is tons, but it is completly outweighed by the amount of fun i have. i'm gonna get a setup as soon as i can afford it (which will probably be when i'm out of college)!


i started at age 6 so it was pretty easy to pick up, of course it was wedging the first two years.

Even my somewhat low income ski bum cousin buys his own boots. It is the one thing you really need to work perfectly as someone mentioned.

Good idea though for a "value priced" boot, although typically, cheap footware doesn't perform.

Hi Forum Members I'm new here just joined a few days ago and this is my first post. Heyyyyyy Everyone!!!

I began skiing a few years ago with my neighbor. I wound up joining a ski club and she didn't. We started at the same level but now I have advanced and ski probably 5x as much as she does. I have to give credit to my club members whom I met on the mountain. They snatched me up and kept me going when I was feeling like I wanted to give up. One of the clubs I belong to is the Nubian Empire Ski Club out of Albany, NY, we are part of NBS. I'm also a member of Out of Control Ski Club.

Copied from an article: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl..._n9497713/pg_2

About 14,000 people participate in NBS or its affiliated clubs events, and membership grows at about 5 percent a year. And affiliates across the country are scooping up kids, introducing them to skiing and competition.
The average retention rate for a first-time skier is 12 to 20 percent. For NBS members, it's 75 to 80 percent.

That number is not inflated. The club I belong to is only about 6 years old and last year we introduced roughly 100 primarily inner city kids to skiing. Most will return again this season and hopefully when they become adults they will still be skiing and spending $$. I'm not sure what aspect of NBS produces such high return rates. I will say this....you have to be committed to sharing your love and passion of the sport. That's how I feel.

I wish I could bottle and sell this suggestion....Mountains should direct some of their advertising $$'s towards ski clubs. Advertising the "club" will increase their memberships which translates into that first-timer having a greater chance of returning to the slopes. I am a perfect example if I hadn't ran into those folks that frightful day at Okemo I probably wouldn't be skiing now. I ski more with both of the clubs that I am a member of than any other times during the season. I ski where my clubs ski!!!

Just my 2 cents!

I have beeen saying in a lot of posts that way too much of our lesson is focused on the skiing, and not enough on the social dynamic. Social and esteem needs play a huge rule in the motivation to ski, and the ski areas need to meet those needs, and direct strategies to reinforcing that the areas have met those needs, and retention will skyrocket. The reason clubs work so well is that they have great social dynamics, in a society where it is hard to find a social context. You are right on the money with your suggestion, and I would urge you to forward your observations to the National Ski Areas Association (nsaa.org).

Hotchocolate, Welcome to Epic!

Skiing is far more than the technique that gets you down the hill. If you're not socializing and playing in the snow, then why?

Keep skiing, smiling, and be as contagious as you can be!

HotChocolate with an insightful first post. Don't be the "I've posted once syndrome" welcome to the club. Post again and post often, kind of like voting.

When I say "bootfitting" I DON'T mean expensive boots, or boots that are "the right size".

A professional bootfitter will remold the shell of your boot to fit the structure of your foot, form a liner to the shape of your foot, and wedge in little pieces of foam (in different densities) here and there, so that the boot fits as if it was made for you.

The difference is dramatic.

If you think the difference between straight skis and the new skis is somethig you should try skiing in boots that are professionally fitted.

There's a reason that all of the World Cup racers, X-Gamers, the Matchstick Production and Warren Miller ski film stars have their boots professionally fitted (and frequently tweaked): simple and precise control.

It has nothing to do with comfort or warmth or anything like that. It simply makes you much much much better able to control your skis. Suddenly you can ski tight treed areas with ease, feel much more stable at speed (because your skis are now riding truly flat), etc.

NOTE: I first had my boots "fitted" at a reputable and well-known ski store....then I went all-out and had them done by a guy who does some of the best racers and free-skiers on the planet: there was no comparison.

The "super-pro" bootfitter (whose shop doesn't sell boots, btw) spent two hours and did a fantastic job. After a few days of getting used to them I couldn't believe how precisely I could ski - and with so little effort.

My other thought was: "Wow, 95%+ of skiers are skiing way below their level," simply because boots almost never fit "properly" unless fitted.

Previously I thought "These boots cost me $700, of course they're near perfect." Now, I realize the factory-ready boots are only a starting point.

I also think it sucks, because a good bootfitting isn't cheap - but the improvement is so unreal that the financial issue doesn't matter. (And mine have a life-time warranty and free tweaking whenever I need it.)

In fact, knowing what I know now I feel all the money spent on the rest of my ski equipment would be a waste without properly fitted boots because I'd be skiing way below my potential.

ONE LAST THING: Go see the bootfitter BEFORE you buy boots. He'll check out your feet and suggest a couple of boots you should get. A good bootfitter won't fit just any boot. Mine won't waste his time unless they're the right boots for your foot to start with.

(Sorry to take up so much space with this but if I could wish one thing upon all skiers it would be a bootfitting. Ski to your potential!)