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A New Method Of Beginner/Intermediate Ski Instruction

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Hi I have an idea for teaching progression between a snowplough turn and
a parrallel which is much faster than traditional ski school instruction meaning that introduction to the parrallel turn is taught to a day 2 beginner. Do any ski schools teach introduction to the parrallel turn this early and if not how would I go about having my idea assessed? There is a trade off however in that falling is more frequent but if the enthusiasum of the student to ski parrallel is much greater than their fear of falling this idea may work for some people.
post #2 of 27
Cassina,

PMTS based teaching systems teaches parallel turns from the start. PSIA based teaching systems offers the option of teaching paralel turns from the start if the class meets some requirements (e.g. equipment, balance skills). Your first step in getting your idea assessed is to get a better understanding of what these teaching systems (and those used in your country if you do not reside in the US) offer.

Next, your idea will be reviewed much more seriously if you have some profesional teaching experience in your background. Also, if you have measureable results based on actual lessons taught with this method, you'll have a basis on which to hold a discussion with professionals. Other than these kinds of steps, the traditional way for new teaching ideas to get incorporatted into the mainstream is for working professionals to discuss the ideas among themselves, try them out on a limited basis, discuss and refine some more, then spread the techniques from the top-down within an individual school and then from school to school or bottom up to the country's professional teaching organizations (e.g. PSIA).
post #3 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Cassina,

(and those used in your country if you do not reside in the US) .
the rusty I'm proud of you
post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply to my post. I must try and get some info on the 2 teaching standards you mention as one of them may have some relationship to my idea. I have discussed part of my idea with a qualified instructor who did not think my idea was workable but I would be keen to
get other opinions anyway. The focus of my idea is for the student to forget they are on skis and on snow completely by shifting their focus on to something in the distance and simply pushing off towards it whether that be in a parrallel or snowplough turn. For example some years ago I was invited to give a first time skier a lesson and I simply told her to put her skis in a V and push off with her poles and keep looking at a fence that was a very long way in the distance (out of crashing range). By doing this she was able to travel far further than she would have if I had simply told her to "Push Off"
The reason she was able to ski as far as she did I believe was because the effect of focussing on the fence helped keep her centred over her skis. I actually made my first turn by pushiing off and focussing on a mound of snow in the distance to one side of me and while I did fall I was able to then progress towards parrallel but with an uphill direction so that I was using the mountain and not a snowplough to slow me down at the end of the turn. The trade off with this approach was as I went on to steeper slopes my uphill slowing down would be too exessive resulting in many falls as I alluded to in my first post but I was not under any instruction while trying this. I would imagine that if this method of what I would call Visuallised Instruction had been taught to me I may have made more rapid progress than I did.
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
Thanks for the reply to my post. I must try and get some info on the 2 teaching standards you mention as one of them may have some relationship to my idea. I have discussed part of my idea with a qualified instructor who did not think my idea was workable but I would be keen to
get other opinions anyway. The focus of my idea is for the student to forget they are on skis and on snow completely by shifting their focus on to something in the distance and simply pushing off towards it whether that be in a parrallel or snowplough turn. For example some years ago I was invited to give a first time skier a lesson and I simply told her to put her skis in a V and push off with her poles and keep looking at a fence that was a very long way in the distance (out of crashing range). By doing this she was able to travel far further than she would have if I had simply told her to "Push Off"
The reason she was able to ski as far as she did I believe was because the effect of focussing on the fence helped keep her centred over her skis. I actually made my first turn by pushiing off and focussing on a mound of snow in the distance to one side of me and while I did fall I was able to then progress towards parrallel but with an uphill direction so that I was using the mountain and not a snowplough to slow me down at the end of the turn. The trade off with this approach was as I went on to steeper slopes my uphill slowing down would be too exessive resulting in many falls as I alluded to in my first post but I was not under any instruction while trying this. I would imagine that if this method of what I would call Visuallised Instruction had been taught to me I may have made more rapid progress than I did.

Cassina: I can infer, by your spelling, that your British

English was learned outside of the US, and so it likely

follows, was your skiing.

What you are describing is not a new concept.

What you are describing, is, to your credit, a very old

concept that is overlooked with alarming regularity in

most modern teaching systems:

Forward Focus.

From your description of this singular component as

providence of a unique , new methodology suggests

some inexperience, on your part, in the methodologies

of modern systems.

You have the right eye for the key elements involved.

The "Eye" can be neither invented nor pantomimed.

It is one of the innate traits of truly excellent Ski

Educators.

I respectfully suggest that you spend a season training

under an officially recognized/sanctioned national

system.

Both the system (of your choice), and your own

professional overview would benefit.


You make a great foundational point, nonetheless


Thank You

Hem
post #6 of 27
The eyes are very powerfull and usefull in giving direction when we learn to ski. Because our body tends to align itself to the direction of our gaze, this can also be a hindrance. Wiht beginers I try to get them to keep their vision moving to where they want ot go, or end up if it is to a stop. Stareing at a place you don't want to go is a sure fire way to get there. so I use myself as a target and then get them to redirect their vision away from me and slightly up the hill ot come to a stop. Then it is directed to certain things on the hill wiht slow redirection as needed. Then it just a matter of helping them discover that looking where we want to go, between skiers, across the hill, the bottom of the hill, ect. is one of best ways to insure we get there. Pretty hard for a beginer to complete a nice turn to the left, if they have their gaze focused on the bottom of the hill.

I reserve focusing on the bottom of hill more for intermediate and above skiers, but I always try to reinforce controling where we look relative to where we want to go. Very definetly important for beginers, from their first slide on. Good observation. Later, RicB.
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the positive responses to my post guys. I am not British but a
New Zealander and the reason why I thought my idea of entry level teaching was new was because I actually taught this to myself based on what my instructor said to me at the end of my first day skiing at age 33 in 1991. He said simply you have got to learn to "Relax" and relaxing to me was all about overcoming the fear and nervousness that I had buit up on that first day. It was just by accident that I clicked on to the idea of visualizing something in the distance (and forgetting I was on skis and snow) to help me turn. I was also finding holding a snowplough quite a strain on my thighs so I was keen to ditch the snowplough as soon as I could and begain thinking of the "Let the mountain slow me down" concept that I mentioned in my earlier post. Once I had reached what I felt was a relaxed and more advanced level of skiing ability (I did make use of videos and books as well) I took my next lesson which the problem happened to be with my brand new boots being set for a too stiff forward flex.

I had another lesson at advanced intermediate level where the progression exercise for me was to develop the same high speed skiing ability off piste that I had on piste. The instructor simply said to me "Stand up 10 feet tall and follow me" and little did I know that his skiing speed was going to be faster than what I had ever skied before, but for me it was the best skiing lesson I had ever had, as in order to be able to keep up with him I had to forget I was on skis and on snow and just focuss on following his head which was really reapplying the long distance visualization exercise
I made up for myself as a second day beginner. Needless to say I had lost my fear of skiing at high speed off piste the next day. I was on GS race (another story) skis at the time of the lesson which I feel also contributed towards the sucess of the lesson.

This year I did a few training runs down a Masters Super G Course for the first time and once again I found my visualization concept from the high speed off piste lesson coming back to me from the perspective of forgetting I was on skis or snow and just focussing on the next gate/s in the distance as fast as I could. I am not sure whether visualization that I have applied to my own ski instruction would be workable from a race coaching perspective as I was only having a play. While I could definitly see racing as further progression from the skiing ability I have at the moment, the additional cost plus loss of valuable skiing day while standing around getting cold feet waiting my turn does not make for a more enjoyable skiing day in my opinion.

I would be interested to know in what country and in what era visualization instruction was taught and from the instructor I spoke to I got the impression today's instruction for beginners revolves solely around body position which in my opinion worked well for me in that advanced intermediate high speed lesson but would never have worked for me as a beginner due to the strong level of fear I had.

As for the suggestion to undertake instructor training I have had an assesment of my skiing ability and unfortuatly I lack consistancy with respect to changing terrain and I lack the ability to carve a turn at slow speed on gentle terrain.
Ski instruction is regulated and freelance instruction is outlawed in New Zealand like the US so I guess any instruction I give will have to be confined to friends/family when and if they get the time/money to come up with me.
post #8 of 27
I described your spelling as "British English", not your nationality. I also surmised (correctly) that your skiing and language were learned outside of the US.

Difficulty with respect to slow carving and terrain change should not preclude your pursuit of this wonderful profession.

There is an excellent Kiwi ski association which is suffering for lack of your input.
Do not be selfish. Share your intuition and intelligence with other skiers.

Thank You
Hem
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
As for the suggestion to undertake instructor training I have had an assesment of my skiing ability and unfortuatly I lack consistancy with respect to changing terrain and I lack the ability to carve a turn at slow speed on gentle terrain.
Ski instruction is regulated and freelance instruction is outlawed in New Zealand like the US so I guess any instruction I give will have to be confined to friends/family when and if they get the time/money to come up with me.
At least in the States, resorts appreciate those who are willing to learn the skiing that they need to grow into as long as they have the willingness and focus to be teachers. The teaching is actually the more difficult capability, it seems...
post #10 of 27
...but unfortunately, you also see people in ski school uniforms there who ought not be in them, and their teaching reflects that they have not yet grasped the basics. I like the idea, but the reality still has some holes in it.

Requiring people to be a decent-level skiier before they start teaching is not such a bad thing.
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
I described your spelling as "British English", not your nationality. I also surmised (correctly) that your skiing and language were learned outside of the US.

Difficulty with respect to slow carving and terrain change should not preclude your pursuit of this wonderful profession.

There is an excellent Kiwi ski association which is suffering for lack of your input.
Do not be selfish. Share your intuition and intelligence with other skiers.

Thank You
Hem
The instructor that I spoke to regarding my teaching idea was British and he was very sure that his way of instruction was the only right way and I guess as an employee disaplinary action would be taken if you were to undertake instruction in a way that was outside current regulatory methodologies.
The Kiwi ski association that you mention would that be the NZ Ski Instructors Training Alliance? perhaps they might be interested in my perhaps outdated instruction concept being introduced back into the current ski school curriculam.
Finally I would like to say that I am able to make a low spped carve by
changing to my 155cm VolkI P60 SL skis so perhaps it may be worth my while having another assessment lesson on those skis only. I may look at that next season as the NZ season is nearly over.
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post
...but unfortunately, you also see people in ski school uniforms there who ought not be in them, and their teaching reflects that they have not yet grasped the basics. I like the idea, but the reality still has some holes in it.

Requiring people to be a decent-level skiier before they start teaching is not such a bad thing.
What I have in effect here is a new "Product"(or revision of very old teaching method) that I would like find out if there would be a place/situation where it could be applied to idealy compliment regulatory ski instruction for some people. As I devised it as a result of my nervousness at the end of my first day the ideal beginners to try it with would be the nervous non relaxed skiers.

I wonder if any instructors if you are all current instructors replying to my post would be keen to try my visualization method for the coming N Hemisphere ski season with the most nervous of beginners?
post #13 of 27
Have you considered the various different learning styles, and how your method would suit them? Someone who learns by watching someone else and following them is only one style of learning, and one I haven't found very common in older people especially.
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post
Have you considered the various different learning styles, and how your method would suit them? Someone who learns by watching someone else and following them is only one style of learning, and one I haven't found very common in older people especially.
I agree certain learning styles would suit different people and you will note
than in my entire learning progression so far I said I used a combination of
instruction, reading and visualization. I could also add "Gut Feeling" with respect to increasing my binding settings, type of skis and steepness of terrain. But for me during those early days following my very first lesson it was visualization learning that got me addicted to skiing. We New Zealanders are known as "Do it yourselfers" which may help explain the mixture of learning methods I used.
You will note that one reply to my original post was from someone that felt that there could be a place for visualization learning
being brought in to compliment today's method of ski instruction. I guess there is different schools of thought in different countries and resorts worldwide. It would be interesting to know if there has ever been any detailed analysis done related to ski learning progression in relation to age/sex although I have heard that kids learn to ski faster than adults
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
Hi I have an idea for teaching progression between a snowplough turn and
a parrallel which is much faster than traditional ski school instruction meaning that introduction to the parrallel turn is taught to a day 2 beginner. Do any ski schools teach introduction to the parrallel turn this early and if not how would I go about having my idea assessed? There is a trade off however in that falling is more frequent but if the enthusiasum of the student to ski parrallel is much greater than their fear of falling this idea may work for some people.
To answer this question, the CSIA teaches "Fast track to Parrallel", it is not for everybody, but I would say it works for way more then half....parallel turns are taught on day 1.
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
To answer this question, the CSIA teaches "Fast track to Parrallel", it is not for everybody, but I would say it works for way more then half....parallel turns are taught on day 1.
Thanks for the info regarding the CSIA method of instruction I will look
it up on the internet to see if it bares any resemblance to my idea. I have also heard of the Harold Harb ski learning system which I am not sure if it has any ski instructor association/certifying authority endorsment.

From some of the posts I have recieved so far I am under the impression
my visualization method is not new and if I was to find some information
on official endorsement of it I would then be able to find out whether or not it could be at all complimentry in ski teaching today or as a previous
poster has said this would not likely work with adults but on the other hand I was 33 and it did work.

I must stress that I precieve the idea to be complimentry to current teaching and not as a replacement for. I would not be skiing at the
level I am today without combining my own experimentation with structured lessons.
post #17 of 27
I follow PSIA methods, which suggest that we should develop skills in four areas, balance, rotary, edging and pressure. We are alos told to pay attention to learning styles, Visual, Auditory and Kinesthetic under one model, Thinkers, feelers, doers and watchers under another. with beginning skiers, I find, and through discussions with fellow instructors, learn that they also find balance to be the biggest focus of beginner lessons. The second focus is likely to be rotary. If we teach students to look into the distance while they ski, then we establish a more upright stance, and better balance. I sometimes do this by having students tell me how many fingers I am holding up as they do their straight runs, and to turn the way I point when they are doing turning runs.

Using the eyes to lead the skiing can be a mistake if you tell the students to look the way they intend to go. When they attempt to turn this way they often will rotate the head, followed by the upper body. This is less efficient than turning the lower body. On the other hand, focusing on a distant point, while turning feet underneath the body can be very efficient. Oddly enough, although the eyes are involved, I think this kind of learning is actually kinesthetic.

If the students get a handle on balance, and show some rotary skill, there is no reason to aovid showing them how to get a turn by engaging their edges, thus appearing to be direct to parallel. If, on the other hand, one were to teach students to turn by simply engaging edges, they would be locked into one turn shape, and would need to learn rotary skills for turn shaping at some later time.

Visual learning can be done a couple of ways. "Watch what I do", or "the ground appears to be more level, and appears less to drop away from you, when you are centered over your skis rather than in the back seat."

Our wonderful language also has a third type of learning sometimes referred to as visualization. "Picture yourself making this turn in such and such a fashion."

I think experienced instructors are likely to teach to all learning styles as they encounter students with them. Your learning style may have been kinesthetic or visual, and you learned well when the instructor addressed those learning styles. An experienced instructor is likely to know when and where to use what teaching technique. If you ever have an opportunity to ski with Deb Armstrong, she addresses all learning styles very effectively and systematically in her instruction.
post #18 of 27
Cassina:
Work for a season in a sanctioned ski school prior to making assertions as to the efficacy of modern ski instructing techniques.

If you resist learning from the ski school trainers, you should expect resistance from them.

They have been doing this much longer than you, and you have more to learn from them than they have to learn from you.

Thank You,

Hem
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
Cassina:
Work for a season in a sanctioned ski school prior to making assertions as to the efficacy of modern ski instructing techniques.

If you resist learning from the ski school trainers, you should expect resistance from them.

They have been doing this much longer than you, and you have more to learn from them than they have to learn from you.

Thank You,

Hem
None of the above is absolutely true.
post #20 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG View Post
I follow PSIA methods, which suggest that we should develop skills in four areas, balance, rotary, edging and pressure. We are alos told to pay attention to learning styles, Visual, Auditory and Kinesthetic under one model, Thinkers, feelers, doers and watchers under another. with beginning skiers, I find, and through discussions with fellow instructors, learn that they also find balance to be the biggest focus of beginner lessons. The second focus is likely to be rotary. If we teach students to look into the distance while they ski, then we establish a more upright stance, and better balance. I sometimes do this by having students tell me how many fingers I am holding up as they do their straight runs, and to turn the way I point when they are doing turning runs.

Using the eyes to lead the skiing can be a mistake if you tell the students to look the way they intend to go. When they attempt to turn this way they often will rotate the head, followed by the upper body. This is less efficient than turning the lower body. On the other hand, focusing on a distant point, while turning feet underneath the body can be very efficient. Oddly enough, although the eyes are involved, I think this kind of learning is actually kinesthetic.

If the students get a handle on balance, and show some rotary skill, there is no reason to aovid showing them how to get a turn by engaging their edges, thus appearing to be direct to parallel. If, on the other hand, one were to teach students to turn by simply engaging edges, they would be locked into one turn shape, and would need to learn rotary skills for turn shaping at some later time.

Visual learning can be done a couple of ways. "Watch what I do", or "the ground appears to be more level, and appears less to drop away from you, when you are centered over your skis rather than in the back seat."

Our wonderful language also has a third type of learning sometimes referred to as visualization. "Picture yourself making this turn in such and such a fashion."

I think experienced instructors are likely to teach to all learning styles as they encounter students with them. Your learning style may have been kinesthetic or visual, and you learned well when the instructor addressed those learning styles. An experienced instructor is likely to know when and where to use what teaching technique. If you ever have an opportunity to ski with Deb Armstrong, she addresses all learning styles very effectively and systematically in her instruction.
Thanks for the very technical explanation of the PSIA instruction method, as what you have described describes the teaching method of the instructor I spoke to with respect to balance, rotation, edging and pressure. You have also helped explain why in a class situation there will be some students who will benefit from the lesson and some who will not due to the limited time available to cover all the different learning styles assuming the instructor was taught them all in the first place.
As I said in my previous posts fear was a major factor affecting my ability
to progress in the early days and learning was just as much as getting used to falling over as skiing and being able to assess in advance the type
of fall I was likely to have if something new went wrong.

Another aspect of my learning has been to do with getting the feel for
different boots and skis as I progressed and despite buying racing skis before my time (as I was told I would not be ready) it was only after buying racing skis that I was able to understand balance and pressure and a better understanding of edging. I would put this down to my intermediate skis having a tolerance for less than good skiing ability and the racing skis having very little tolerance for less than good skiing ability.
Racing skis were Volkl P10 205cm, P50 F1 Energy 188cm, P60 SL 155cm. I can still ski my Volkl P10s I had one day on them this season with the only noticable thing being poor slow speed handling after being on carvers. They are certainly not old fashioned at speed.
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
Thanks for the very technical explanation of the PSIA instruction method, as what you have described describes the teaching method of the instructor I spoke to with respect to balance, rotation, edging and pressure. You have also helped explain why in a class situation there will be some students who will benefit from the lesson and some who will not due to the limited time available to cover all the different learning styles assuming the instructor was taught them all in the first place.
As I said in my previous posts fear was a major factor affecting my ability
to progress in the early days and learning was just as much as getting used to falling over as skiing and being able to assess in advance the type
of fall I was likely to have if something new went wrong.

Another aspect of my learning has been to do with getting the feel for
different boots and skis as I progressed and despite buying racing skis before my time (as I was told I would not be ready) it was only after buying racing skis that I was able to understand balance and pressure and a better understanding of edging. I would put this down to my intermediate skis having a tolerance for less than good skiing ability and the racing skis having very little tolerance for less than good skiing ability.
Racing skis were Volkl P10 205cm, P50 F1 Energy 188cm, P60 SL 155cm. I can still ski my Volkl P10s I had one day on them this season with the only noticable thing being poor slow speed handling after being on carvers. They are certainly not old fashioned at speed.
Be mindful against putting too much stock into equipment.
Become a skier whose skis follow his/her abilty, and never the reverse.

Hem
post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
Be mindful against putting too much stock into equipment.
Become a skier whose skis follow his/her abilty, and never the reverse.

Hem
I guess I have become a bit of a "gear head" and I don't think I am the only one who posts on Epic Ski. Over the last 2 years I have developed an
interest in Mid Fat skis Public Enemy Twin Tip and Volkl AC4 to the point where my desire to ski on racing skis is likely to become a thing of the past. When I first bought my race skis I felt that to go back to any other catagory of ski was likely to result in me becoming lazy but there is no fear of that with the Volkl AC4, plus I have superior all terrain capability.
In view of the largely instructor (I am assuming) response to my posts
I will start a post seeking response from people who would be prepared
to give feedback positive or negative on the lessons they have had. It could make interesting reading also

Thanks

Peter
post #23 of 27
Cassina,

I think you have some very good instincts about this teaching this sport. If you are serious about wanting to take this on as a job then you can learn all the same things instructors know by enrolling in a training program next winter. And the best part is that it seems you already have a few things that we can't teach you, which are your instincts.

It will take time, money, and patience but it is very rewarding. Helping people have fun and overcome their fears is great, and the skiing ain't bad either!

I have taught a few years down in NZ and their are heaps of programs that you could get into to get your NZSIA cert levels and develop more ideas about teaching skiing.

There are programs all over so if you really want to do it, it's not a bad way to spend your time.

And if all you want is to influence a few of us instructors then I will make sure that I pay more attention to the problems you described and try a few of your ways.

Thanks,



-nerd
post #24 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for the further replies guys. I have just flicked through
another topic on this forum regarding different methods of teaching carving which appeared to me to degenerate into constant attack
on different teaching methodologies which I have been lucky to
avoid here possibly due to the fact I have said my learning ideas were
derived in combination with formal instruction.

I could add that I taught myself how to carve once I had developed a comfortabel level of fearlessness at highish speeds on groomed runs by looking at pictures of racers and noticing how if for example they were making a left turn their right knee would appear to be toughing the top of their left ski boot and another thing I devised was to allways keep my big toes pressed down hard on the base of my ski boot. A visualization exercise for carving down a groomed run which could be for the student
to be told that there will be someone watching who wants to be able to see the brand of ski symbol on the base of the ski.
I once asked a kid in a race coaching school if his coach ever said to him
make sure those watching you can see the writing on the base of you ski he said no and when I explained that in photos of racers turning the writing could
be seen on the base of the ski he thought what I said made sense.
One word of warning with my method of learning carving is that a ski slope
with no one or few people on it it best for practising and even today I will
frequently break into skidded turns on crowded slopes in the interests of
safety.

I hope my views on progression to carving will not upset too much,those
who percieve that the only way to teach it is their way or their ski instruction
certifying authority's way.


A book and videos that have asisted my prgression are

The Great North American Ski Book By I William Berry

Learning to Ski the Fast Way video Ilona Mclure

How We Learnt To Ski video Ali Ross

As I stated in a previous post I have been assessed as lacking all terrain
consistancy in my skiing ability to qualify as an instructor ie I am not able to ski as expert off trail as on but strangely enough I find steep black runs
off trail far more relaxing to ski than gentle crowded terrain.

Perhaps I would have needed to take up skiing far earlier than I did to achieve
the consistancy in ability required for instructor ability but hey if everyone
had to ski to instructor level to enjoy skiing the industry would never be
the size it is today.
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post
...but unfortunately, you also see people in ski school uniforms there who ought not be in them, and their teaching reflects that they have not yet grasped the basics. I like the idea, but the reality still has some holes in it.

Requiring people to be a decent-level skiier before they start teaching is not such a bad thing.
Completely agree, ant.
post #26 of 27

carving vs. sliding vs. cash

This past year we put our 7yr. old son on skis, in ski school for the first time. After two days of learning nothing on shaped skis from instructors that had no concept of "old school" principles of technical skiing, I took him to the mountain and had him doing blue/blacks by the end of the day.

Granted almost an entire generation has grown up on the less technical shaped ski, but the principles for learning technique have to be taught or all we will end up with are is another generation or two of sloppy tail skiing, hill cleaning, snow junkies.

Are they easier to learn on for adults? Absolutely. Are they faster, cleaner and more stable on the flat out speed runs? They past year or so times and US team results testify to that falsehood. I personally believe that a hybrid between the old straight skis and the recently favored shapes will evolve in the near future.

I agree that for the financial growth and stability of the industry adult first timers have to have an easier to learn option, such as the one that tail skiing on shaped skis offer, to keep them coming back and to keep the crowds growing. I don't agree with throwing the technical superiority of the past ski shapes out the window for the cash however.
post #27 of 27
Thread Starter 
Are they easier to learn on for adults? Absolutely. Are they faster, cleaner and more stable on the flat out speed runs? They past year or so times and US team results testify to that falsehood. I personally believe that a hybrid bAre they easier to learn on for adults? Absolutely. Are they faster, cleaner and more stable on the flat out speed runs? They past year or so times and US team results testify to that falsehood. I personally believe that a hybrid between the old straight skis and the recently favored shapes will evolve in the near future.
etween the old straight skis and the recently favored shapes will evolve in the near future.


I agree carvers do not offer the stability on the flat at speed that straight
skis do and have held on to my old Volkl P10 205cm and still enjoy
them when the conditions are right. Straight skis are still made under the name of Super G. I dont know what these skis would feel like but when my Volkl P10's fall to bits a Super G ski could possibly be a replacement. The only catch being they are never available for demo in my country.

Interesting to note that 3 years ago twin tips were supposed to take the world by storm which I have not noticed. Where I ski only 20% of skiing days that I have are powder/soft heavy snow days.
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