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Curious DIN Observation - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robscapes View Post
You can probably lay much of this on the feet of the personal injury lawyers who have trained us to act this way.
Wouldn't that be just another case of shoving the responsibilities onto someone else? :

Quote:
I agree that allowing personal responsability is refreshing, but lets just suppose that you had hurt yourself. Would you still take personal responsability for yourself when looking down the barrel at huge medical bills, loss of work, bills to pay, etc.?? Most Americans NEVER would. I'll bet most Euros wouldn't either if there wasn't socialized medicine available to them. Just my 2cents.
As one euro I can say I would.
post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant View Post
Yeah, I set mine to 11 even if they only go up to 10...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxman View Post
The Spinal Tap of skiing.
Couldn't you just make it so that 10 is higher?
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman829 View Post
Couldn't you just make it so that 10 is higher?
But this one goes to 11.
post #34 of 52
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Originally Posted by torfinn View Post
As one euro I can say I would.
I agree - and I don't think it has anything to do with making health care available to all.
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
I think we're in substantial agreement. I wish the shops didn't have to worry about what would happen. As you say, we seem to have some kind of mindset in this country that if anything goes wrong in my life, I should be able to blame - and therefore sue - somebody. Not healthy.
Bob,
I really really hope the shops DO WORRY about what would happen. Otherwise you get shop employees who really don't care and sending skier's and probably lots of beginners onto the hill with poorly tuned equipment. The whole reason for the chart din setting has little to do with what binding setting you want vs. what the chart says and more to do with giving the employees a guideline to follow. What if some intermediate lightweight skier goes into the shop and says he need a din 10 for whatever reason? The shop should inquire at least why he needs that high a din setting. To just set a din that high without checking the reasoning would be negligent.

You are entirely right about personal responsibilty though. The consent form is the shops way of guaranteeing it.

-matt
post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
I guess what I'm saying is that if you are inexperienced, you don't know what you don't know, and so how much of it is the shop's responsibility? I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not European, so I don't know if they regularly "distrust" ski shop techs and double-check their work or not.
If you don't know what you are doing, will the waiver you sign have any merit? (eg. one shi shows DIN 10, the other 4 -- you win?)

If you do know what you are doing, it would be irresponsible for you not to check the work yourself, regardless of having signed the waiver. (eg. one ski shows DIN 10, the other 4 - you lose?)

So, in the end, it's all about you, not the shop.
post #37 of 52
Thread Starter 
Please don't forget that I was just saying it was refreshing that I was simply asked what DIN I wanted and it was set that way.

The issue of whether a given shop employee (in either the US or Europe) is incompetent is really irrelevant. I also doubt that a beginner or intermediate is going to REQUEST a DIN setting higher than the recommendation unless that skier has already experienced problems with standard DIN's.

I just liked the fact that the shop tech asked me what I wanted and then gave it to me. No charades involving forms or waivers.
post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
If you don't know what you are doing, will the waiver you sign have any merit? (eg. one shi shows DIN 10, the other 4 -- you win?)

If you do know what you are doing, it would be irresponsible for you not to check the work yourself, regardless of having signed the waiver. (eg. one ski shows DIN 10, the other 4 - you lose?)

So, in the end, it's all about you, not the shop.
It's not the waiver, it's the process they go through before you initial it, where you do check the DIN as they point it out to you.

If they point at the window and say 8, but it's set on 4, and you can see that, then it becomes your responsibility whether or not you sign the sheet. You either say, "It doesn't say 8, fix it"; or, "Whatever, I'll sign." Then it's your deal.

I'm speaking for the people who don't KNOW, who are normally in the rental shops. Everyone on this thread does know, and can use their own screwdriver after they've signed and initialed whatever forms and waivers are required.

I'm just speaking from the other side of the issue. I am not a nanny-state-lotsa-regulation kind of person, at ALL. I despise frivolous lawsuits, and I prefer a higher freedom/higher responsibility society. During the two years I lived in California, the Government Warning signs plastered all over the place made me gag.

But I was in a situation where I could see a good reason to go through the rigamarole ... checks and balances aren't necessarily a bad thing. It's quite fashionable to badmouth the US as overly litigious, before all points of view are considered.

And yes, I should have checked. I already said that. I was out of my element, and my normal routines were disrupted -- that's why this made me realize how most tourists from Oklahoma are feeling when they are doing the same thing in my home.

All that said, it's crazy not to be able to waive the recommended DIN if you ask. I've been able to do that in some shops, but not in others. I don't know why. I wish I knew the case law on this --
post #39 of 52
There's a very simple way to waive the recommended DIN. It's called a screwdriver.

If you're not comfortable using one, you probably shouldn't be thinking about waiving anyway.
post #40 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
There's a very simple way to waive the recommended DIN. It's called a screwdriver.

If you're not comfortable using one, you probably shouldn't be thinking about waiving anyway.
Except that I ususally don't carry a big Phillips screwdriver around with me when I go skiing and most shops most definitely will not hand me THEIR screwdriver to adjust THEIR bindings.
post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
It's not the waiver, it's the process they go through before you initial it, where you do check the DIN as they point it out to you.

If they point at the window and say 8, but it's set on 4, and you can see that, then it becomes your responsibility whether or not you sign the sheet. You either say, "It doesn't say 8, fix it"; or, "Whatever, I'll sign." Then it's your deal.

I'm speaking for the people who don't KNOW, who are normally in the rental shops.
And if they don't know that process, they won't ask the tech to verify the DIN. With English as a second or even third language, and it doesn't matter at all what you print on the waiver.

Q: How many techs have to sign the waiver that THEY have checked it?
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Except that I ususally don't carry a big Phillips screwdriver around with me when I go skiing and most shops most definitely will not hand me THEIR screwdriver to adjust THEIR bindings.
I always pop one in the back of the car when I go skiing. I don't ski with it though; that could hurt. I've never had a resort rental guy refuse to lend my the shops screwdriver. Most of the ones I've met couldn't care less.
post #43 of 52
Mini tool with #3 driver, always.
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
I always pop one in the back of the car when I go skiing. I don't ski with it though; that could hurt. I've never had a resort rental guy refuse to lend my the shops screwdriver. Most of the ones I've met couldn't care less.
At Kirkwood, they have 'em at the bottom of several lifts. There's little workbenches set up with various ski / snowboard tools chained to them in case you have to make any adjustments. Have seen this elsewhere too, but can't remember exactly where.
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Except that I ususally don't carry a big Phillips screwdriver around with me when I go skiing and most shops most definitely will not hand me THEIR screwdriver to adjust THEIR bindings.
I keep one in my pack.

Also, I can't recall the last time I skied somewhere that didn't have a set of drivers chained at various places for the boarders. (Maybe Alta doesn't.)
post #46 of 52
Not allowed to take a pack on the lifts here. We are too clumsy.
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
At Kirkwood, they have 'em at the bottom of several lifts. There's little workbenches set up with various ski / snowboard tools chained to them in case you have to make any adjustments. Have seen this elsewhere too, but can't remember exactly where.
We have these locally, I think we owe it to snowboarding. Tools within reach of skiers would have been totally out of the question back in the day.
post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
I keep one in my pack.

Also, I can't recall the last time I skied somewhere that didn't have a set of drivers chained at various places for the boarders. (Maybe Alta doesn't.)
I only carry the mini tool because I've had a telemark binding that kept coming loose, and snowboard bindings that might. If I only used professionally mounted/adjusted alpine bindings, I probably wouldn't carry the tool.
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Except that I ususally don't carry a big Phillips screwdriver around with me when I go skiing and most shops most definitely will not hand me THEIR screwdriver to adjust THEIR bindings.
They usually do that for me...
post #50 of 52
I've borrowed a screwdriver from lifties in the top shack before too.
post #51 of 52
Duh on European race stock tests by Atomic I have participated in they allways set up the bindings to our shoe size, they then however handed us over that screwdriver to adjust the binding - well Adjust from 10 upwards - so it was your own responsibility.

Many shops here do have a form to fill in as well, however never ever a prob asking for a screwdriver - as well you can find them at ever lift for all those snowboarders needing to adjust their binders!

OH I'm extremecarver still waiting for my reactivation off my old account which got deactivated due to e-mail change and problems for me receiving confirmation mail
post #52 of 52
All three of my serious ski injuries have been due to binding release at high speed. They were set to the recommended level. Not anymore.
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