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Here are a whack of ski vids from Whistler Ski School - Page 3

post #61 of 75
i think the question that everybody is overlooking here is since when does the word "whack" = a bunch/passel/bevy?

Where i come from "whack" and "wack" mean the following:

"whack" is commonly used to denote hitting something.
ex: "I whacked Johnny on the head with a rubber mallet."

"wack" is commonly used to denote when something is bad (as in horrible).
ex: "Yo, dude is wack. He can't even ski the bunny slope without falling down."

am i missing something here or have the Canadians appropriated the term "whack" and now use it to denote a bunch or grouping of something.

does this mean i should be saying "Hey, after a day on the slopes let's go out and get a whack of beers"?
post #62 of 75
...and can you expand on what you mean by "the zipperline can be skied with grace and efficiency just as fast or slow as you want." Let's say I want to ski a steep run (like Outhouse) very slowly in the zipper line. How do I do that?
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
...and can you expand on what you mean by "the zipperline can be skied with grace and efficiency just as fast or slow as you want." Let's say I want to ski a steep run (like Outhouse) very slowly in the zipper line. How do I do that?
Finally a question I can relate to. I have been growing as a skier these last two years; I have been learning to ski SLOWLY, and learning to not-carve in bumps. Though I don't know about Outhouse, I have seen big icy bumps, and believe most can be skied straight down the zipper line relatively slowly, provided you don't try and carve the zipper-line. I think I'm getting too old for carving the zipper-line in big icy bumps. It's basically sideslipping, with extension and absorption at the right time to continuously kill speed. Try to get as much retardation extending on the downside of the bump as you do absorbing on the way up the bump.
post #64 of 75
yep, ghost beat me to it! on steep, icy or otherwise difficult moguls, just use more edge pressure down the backside of each bump. it takes practice to develop the feel for it - sideslipping drills are good for this.

oh, speaking of "feel", i really like bob barnes' backpedaling analogy. it DOES feel like that to me when i'm skiing bumps slowly enough to think about it. the feeling is also similar to dropping into a halfpipe then going up the other side.

to answer skimango's question (about other tactics), i can acknowledge there are other options for skiing bumps besides the zipperline. but why bother? j/k. to each his own!
post #65 of 75
Ummm... If you're using your edges to slow down on the downhill side of the bumps, I don't think of that as zipper line. So, we may have a definitional problem, here.

Zipper line to me is flat skis in the trough, using the sides of bumps to effectively bank off on the way through as opposed to going up and over the bumps.
post #66 of 75
Don't go straight over the peaks, still go up and down the shoulders of the bump weaving between the peaks. Scrape the edges going down driving them in hard and absorb going over. If you're carving banked turns down the fall line through the bumps you will certainly be seeing high speeds.
post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Ummm... If you're using your edges to slow down on the downhill side of the bumps, I don't think of that as zipper line. So, we may have a definitional problem, here.

Zipper line to me is flat skis in the trough, using the sides of bumps to effectively bank off on the way through as opposed to going up and over the bumps.
ssh, i used to think the same thing! it's easy to belive that the WC guys are riding a flat ski all the time becuase in real-time that's how it often appears. however, if you slow it down you'll see them subtly edging on the backside of each bump, applying more or less pressure (skidding) when they want to slow down or speed up.

i posted this link on epic last year in response to a similar thread: http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/5110622/detail.html

note the slo-mo sequences around 1:25. you can clearly see the skier edging his way down the backside. he is not, as most people believe, just "bashing" his way from bump to bump.
post #68 of 75
I'll take a look. If that's the case, I probably zipper line more than I realized! :
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Madison View Post
to answer skimango's question (about other tactics), i can acknowledge there are other options for skiing bumps besides the zipperline. but why bother? j/k. to each his own!

Now THAT makes sense!
post #70 of 75
I am just jumping in here and have not read every post as they were getting very off topic.

watching the videos I noticed good skiing but a couple things kind of suprised me, especially from the Canadian D team. In one of the videos the skier was making short turns I believe and I noticed a very pronounced old school, lifting of the inside tail on every turn. Is this technique resurfacing for a purpose or just a residual habit that is acceptable for a demo team demonstration? Please ...I am being sincere.

b
post #71 of 75
Bud,

These are Whistler ski school vids. Check out D team skiing here. There is some tail lifting in these vids as well. But it does not appear to be part of the official technique.
post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Madison View Post
but that's just it...skiing the zipperline need NOT be any more tiring than other less direct lines through the bumps. 99% of the fatigue you experience in the bumps comes from skiing in the backseat and/or from failing to use A&E. your thighs, joints and lower back can really take a pounding if you're not in balance! with proper technique - yes, i mean that dreaded knees locked WC mogul style - you are using your skeleton to your advantage, rather than relying on muscles that quickly burn out.

the zipperline can be skied with grace and efficiency just as fast or slow as you want.
I'll chime in on the "You can ski the zipper line slow" side. But

WC mogul skiers rely primarily on extension and absorption to control speed. As Happy as noted, you've got to use your edges more to ski the zip slow. I'll also toss in that you have to get your skis more across the fall line. I've done a really slow zip all of one time in my life. I found a perfect set of bumps with soft snow and "fattened" the zip line with my lower body. From the waist up I stayed in the center of the line, but my feet were going way out to the side and up the sides of the bumps. I would not have called it zipper line skiing, but one could still technically call it the zipper line. I suppose you could call it sideways extension/absorption instead of fall line e/a that the pros do.

Is it possible to skid the zipper line slow? In some bumps you ought to be able to go straight down the fall line under 3 MPH. But at some point if the bumps get hard enough and rutted/tight enough, I believe that a slow zip line technique will be impractical if not impossible to execute. Does fall line extension/absorption become less effective at slower speed? It seems that way to me but the physics does not make sense. It ought not to make a difference unless there is some other factor coming into play.

I teach a lot of slow speed bump skiing techniques. My experience is that when going across the fall line it is a lot easier to execute slower speeds than going down the zipper line.

I think the main issue is: can one have effective and adequate speed control skiing the zipperline without high level athletic movements? I believe the answer is a qualified yes. You don't have to be strong enough to leg press 400 pounds. You don't have to be limber enough to touch the bottom of your feet to the back of your head. But you do have to have quick feet. To the extent that you do have strength and flexibility, you can handle faster speeds and execute more speed control with your strength and flexibility and less speed control with technique. This can be a nice safety cushion when you're just a little bit short in the technique column.

(at the risk of rekindling old flames...)
It is also interesting to note that PMTS says that you can zipperline without rotary and without skidding. IMHO HH's idea of a zipperline is a lot more generous than mine. Nonetheless, most of the PMTS bump skiing I've seen has been graceful and at relatively slow speeds.
post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
Well put steve, but again I ask to see some great skiing posted here. I know many of us would really love to see some D team members skiing, or to see Bob Barnes, or other ESA coaches skiing. I'm not at all implying it wouldn't be great skiing - I just want to see it.
SMJ - The guys in these vids are Canadian D-Team. They're on par with the PSIA D-team, and any of the other national teams around the world.
post #74 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
SMJ - The guys in these vids are Canadian D-Team. They're on par with the PSIA D-team, and any of the other national teams around the world.
Just watched some of them - they're grrrrreat! (using tony the tiger voice.)
post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Ummm... If you're using your edges to slow down on the downhill side of the bumps, I don't think of that as zipper line. So, we may have a definitional problem, here.

Zipper line to me is flat skis in the trough, using the sides of bumps to effectively bank off on the way through as opposed to going up and over the bumps.
one other point i neglected to mention - the judging criteria in FIS actually REQUIRE the mogul competitors to use edging. angulation is key. see the section titled "carving action" below (taken from http://www.kinchans.com/junkie/rule/6200.html#6204.1 ).

6204 Judging Criteria
6204.1 Turns (50% of the Score) Min. = 0.0 / Max. = 5.0

Turns, as a judging criteria refer to a technical evaluation of how well a skier turns through the moguls. Turns, in a mogul event, refer to rhythmic changes in direction of travel to either side of the fall-line, utilizing an aggressive, controlled technique.

6204.1.1 There are Nine (9) Points to Consider

6204.1.1.1 Fall-Line
Skiing in the fall-line is considered the shortest way from a starting point to the finish line. To achieve the maximum points for fall-line the skier should stay in the selected fall-line out of the start gate. A course should always be set so that the natural fall-line of the hill is the center line of the control gates.

6204.1.1.2 Utilization of Moguls
Using moguls to assist initiation of the turn through carving action of the skis. Minimum one turn per mogul.

6204.1.1.3 Economy of Motion
Minimal effort for maximum result to accomplish turning action.

6204.1.1.4 Absorption
Ski-snow contact to be maintained as much as possible. The faster the skiing, the more absorption there has to be. Movement of upper body should be kept minimal. Legs should be used as shock absorbers in anticipation of the moguls.

6204.1.1.5 Carving Action
All turns should be initiated by carving. Efficient use of edging to control speed in and out of the turn throughout the run.

6204.1.1.6 Body Position
Head should remain still, facing downhill. Shoulders should stay square to the fall-line. Arms should stay in front of the body in a natural position. Legs should be held together with a combination of hip-knee and ankle angulation.

6204.1.1.7 Pole Plants
Pole plants should be used to assist the skier with respect to timing and balance. Rational movements. Hands stay in front. Double pole plants should be avoided except for take off and landing of jumps.

6204.1.1.8 Control
Control is to be maintained by technical skiing as described above.

6204.1.1.9 Aggressiveness
Aggressiveness is skiing to ones personal limits, but not beyond.

6204.1.2 Mogul point guideline
Excellent4.6 - 5.0Very good4.1 - 4.5Good3.6 - 4.0Above Average 3.1 - 3.5Competent2.6 - 3.0Below average2.1 - 2.5Poor1.1 - 2.0Very poor0.1 - 1.0Not skied0.0 - RNS/DNS
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