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Teaching switch

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Does anyone else teach skiing switch in non-park settings?
post #2 of 21
Yes, I do it with some classes depending on ability and athletic abiltiy veyr rarely though. I normally teach it to get people forward in their boots(natural tendence is to lean into the hill if you going backwards). For kids it can be fun too, and if they are having fun I have much better chance of seeing them again in my class.

Also to anyone doing this it can be very risky, please take into account the surrounding.

Now as for actually skiing switch I am by no means the best at it but its totally different then what i am trying to get from my classes. You want calf pressure and not heal pressure to get the best turn out of your switch skiing. Its entirely possiable to RR turn backwards.
post #3 of 21
I do it all the time with kids. It's good for many reasons, it's fun for starters. Little kids think it's a "trick". It's good for weight transfer, fore/aft balance, edging and learning the feeling of purposely flattening/edging a ski so they can spin around and getting them in the front of their boots. When skiing switch, lots of ankle flexion occurs, they can feel it for once and replicate it when skiing forward. Too bad most adult students have fear inserted so deeply to even attempt skiing switch on flat terrain.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles) View Post
Does anyone else teach skiing switch in non-park settings?
Ths is a favorite of mine with ski PE classes. I don't know if I would really call it skiing switch, but definetly skiing backwards. Yes, all the time. Any group that can can link wedge turns when I get them is fair game. Like PA says though, it does need to be thought out and kept under control. Kids in particular like it. We might do whole runs skiing backwards, follow the leader ect. Then I will throw in some slow 360's. Yes, even a wedge turner can do a slow 360 on the snow. Builds confidence, creates a playfull atomosphere, creates success without regular boring exercise hoops. Really improves a sense of ski awareness, where and how to pressure a ski and developes Balance and control that otherwise might escape many skiers in a typical lesson.

Adults I'm a little more selctive with. though I will get most of my program groups doing 360's at some time or another. After backwards or 360's on snow, forwards is a "peice O cake" so to speak. I have fun with it too. Later, RicB.
post #5 of 21
I still teach the herringbone prior to wedge or even

straight run.

Technically, I am then teaching switch.



Hem
post #6 of 21
I shooting for a switch 360 this year. At least I'll be going up the hill facing the right direction,sort of.
post #7 of 21
Absolutely. I think that teaching them to ski backwards is great.

I've really been playing around with switch skiing on my own as well and it is quite funny to carve both skis while going backwards, it's a real challenge.

I helped my girlfriend with her L3 "canned" progression this last season because she wanted something that not many other candidates would have done. So we developed "switch skiing to improve performance in crud". It went over real well, they all loved it because everyone else pretty much did a version of diagonal extension, so she really stood out.

I think all instructors should be able to ski parallel backwards, essentially it is the same as parallel forwards.

Except pole planting tho, that would be a bit dodgy. :


-nerd
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
I shooting for a switch 360 this year. At least I'll be going up the hill facing the right direction,sort of.
Good on ya!

Once you get the switch 180 down, you just spin a bit harder and it comes around real easy.

The switch 540 scares the bag out of me so that's one of my goals.

Good luck!


-nerd
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_nerd13 View Post
Good on ya!

Once you get the switch 180 down, you just spin a bit harder and it comes around real easy.

The switch 540 scares the bag out of me so that's one of my goals.

Good luck!


-nerd
No dude........I mean a switch 360 carved turn on the snow,ok.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
No dude........I mean a switch 360 carved turn on the snow,ok.
Oh, sorry. Doesn't mean you still can't try it in the air though!


-nerd
post #11 of 21
Right on that nerd. 360 is a fairly easy manuver. Unless your clipping along at +35 mph off a ridge in 6" of new fluff on a bluebird..........I sure hope it's an early ski season.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
I'm going to quote myself here now that's I've sucked people into this thread. From the self-arrest thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_nerd13
all this talk of self-arrest reminds me of first-timers who get turned around backwards accidentally.......

...and slide down with their butts in the air attempting to self-arrest by clawing at the snow.....

......later all you see is these 10 tracks left by the fingers like someone was getting dragged to thier death.

kinda funny



-nerd

Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles
at a certain skill level, I teach kids how to ski switch, partly to fix this, partly to talk about balance point (try it, most people, when skiing switch, are standing in the position they should be when skiing forward), partly 'cause it's lots of fun, partly 'cause it's the one thing kids remember when their parents ask them what they learned.
[edit: I didn't originally quote nerd's post there, but it shows the context of my comment.]


Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
Ths is a favorite of mine with ski PE classes. I don't know if I would really call it skiing switch, but definetly skiing backwards. Yes, all the time. Any group that can can link wedge turns when I get them is fair game. Like PA says though, it does need to be thought out and kept under control. Kids in particular like it. We might do whole runs skiing backwards, follow the leader ect. Then I will throw in some slow 360's. Yes, even a wedge turner can do a slow 360 on the snow. Builds confidence, creates a playfull atomosphere, creates success without regular boring exercise hoops. Really improves a sense of ski awareness, where and how to pressure a ski and developes Balance and control that otherwise might escape many skiers in a typical lesson.

Adults I'm a little more selctive with. though I will get most of my program groups doing 360's at some time or another. After backwards or 360's on snow, forwards is a "peice O cake" so to speak. I have fun with it too. Later, RicB.
I too generally start with kids that can reliably make linked wedge turns; yeah, I guess you can't really call backwards wedge turns "switch," but it's a start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_nerd13 View Post
...
I think all instructors should be able to ski parallel backwards, essentially it is the same as parallel forwards. ...

-nerd
nerd, I'm only going to refer to one portion of your post: In the PSIA Rocky Mountain division, switch parallel is part of the L2 skiing cert.

But, really, if you're teaching kids, being able to ski backwards (whether parallel switch or wedge switch - depends on what I'm teaching) is an integral part of an instructor's "bag of tricks."
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
nerd, I'm only going to refer to one portion of your post: In the PSIA Rocky Mountain division, switch parallel is part of the L2 skiing cert.

But, really, if you're teaching kids, being able to ski backwards (whether parallel switch or wedge switch - depends on what I'm teaching) is an integral part of an instructor's "bag of tricks."
That's cool, I didn't know that it was part of the exam there in RM. What terrain do they expect you to do it down? To what standard of parallel? I mean, how strict do the movements have to be?

And definately, switch is a must for teaching kids. Preaching to the choir on that one!

The self-arrest post just highlights what I always see as funny about everyone's natural reaction to sliding down a hill backwards, had never put it in the context of self-arrest though before.



-nerd
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_nerd13 View Post
That's cool, I didn't know that it was part of the exam there in RM. What terrain do they expect you to do it down? To what standard of parallel? I mean, how strict do the movements have to be?...
Supposedly, green terrain. Some examiners have told me a hint of wedge is OK, some have told me NO wedge. Who knows. We have some RM examiners here at epicski, I'm sure they could tell us what the real standard is.
post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Here's what it says in PSIA-RM L2 Skiing Movements:

SWITCH SKIING (BASIC PARALLEL):
Guest Outcome: Experience making smooth parallel turns backwards
Terrain and Tactics: Green/Blue terrain, utilizing over the shoulder viewing in order to maintain direction and safety.
Description:
• Maintaining balanced stance in a reversed position
• Utilizing tipping, turning, flexing & extending movements in order to maintain turn shape
• Maintaining a clear downhill view in order to judge descent speed and velocity
• Altering stance to best acquire usable edge angle and flexing/ extending movements

That is from 04-05 (current on website) could change.
post #16 of 21

Which switch is which?

Technically, I've taught switch skiing to a never ever class. On very rare occasions, I'll get a class doing so well, we've got time for a little fun at the end. So I'll teach them how to do an on snow 360 by doing two 180 degree turns, one forward to a stop facing uphill and then one backwards to complete the "360".

Lots of times when I have a mixed ability lesson I'll ask the advanced students to do tasks backwards.
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Lots of times when I have a mixed ability lesson I'll ask the advanced students to do tasks backwards.
Sounds a bit like teaching snowboarding as well.




-nerd
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles) View Post
Here's what it says in PSIA-RM L2 Skiing Movements:

SWITCH SKIING (BASIC PARALLEL):
Guest Outcome: Experience making smooth parallel turns backwards
Terrain and Tactics: Green/Blue terrain, utilizing over the shoulder viewing in order to maintain direction and safety.
Description:
• Maintaining balanced stance in a reversed position
• Utilizing tipping, turning, flexing & extending movements in order to maintain turn shape
• Maintaining a clear downhill view in order to judge descent speed and velocity
• Altering stance to best acquire usable edge angle and flexing/ extending movements

That is from 04-05 (current on website) could change.
So is it part of the teaching or skiing standard?

Sounds like it could be both.

Way to go RM on having this as part of the exam!

Thanks for the info.


-nerd
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
I still teach the herringbone prior to wedge or even

straight run.

Technically, I am then teaching switch.



Hem

So do you teach them to herringbone up a grade and slide backwards down it? I do this with never-evers in a shallow dip on the flats where they can slide maybe four or five ski lengths before they lose any slope. Just a balancing routine.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
So do you teach them to herringbone up a grade and slide backwards down it? I do this with never-evers in a shallow dip on the flats where they can slide maybe four or five ski lengths before they lose any slope. Just a balancing routine.

Yes, I do.

I further teach a reverse herringbone, whereby the pupil

stands in a wedge and walks backward up a small,

short grade.

This exercise dispels, immediately, any trepidation

surrounding employment of the braking wedge.

The student who learns reverse uphill wedge-stepping

loses virtually all fear associated with the ensuing

straight run prior to employment of the straight run.

I call it proactive commitment.


Hem
post #21 of 21
The backward wedgewalk up a really shallow grade is something I employ too, Hem. I start beginner lessons going through all these motions without the skis so the movements are somewhat familiar before the feet get "slippery".
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