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Jump Turns Obsolete except as Drill?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Are jump turns completely obsolete except as a drill? My vote is yes, with the qualification that 1) they can be an excellent "survival riding" fallback, and 2) in some types of crud and breakable crust they may truly still be the best techinque available.

Steeps: many people advocate them here. However, crossunder turns with a flatter board angle work up to pretty steep, then tip rolls give you far more control than a jump turn when things get steeper.

Bumps: keeping the board in contact with the snow affords far better control.

Trees: ditto.

In bumps in particular I will still finding myself resorting to a jump turn here and there. When it happens, I try to think about why, and then ride the same section again keeping the board in contact with the snow. Invariably not just that turn, but the turns after, go better without the jump turn involved.
post #2 of 18
Similar to a jump turn, the D team guys were teaching us to do nose rolls with upper body rotation to make quick turns in the steep bumps at Jackson. It's much better to keep your board on the snow if you can.
post #3 of 18
even if only used as a drill, It is always good to have many solutions to a problem in your bag of tricks...who know when you need to pull it out. you yourself say you use them in the bumps, then go back and try to do it better. but in the unknown line, sometimes, it is necessary. what about at the top of the pipe for lower level riders?

-NBC
post #4 of 18
I'm with SirMack on this one: it's good to have lots of tools in your toolkit.

IMO jumping turns is far more than a drill, useful in lots of tricky situations (bumps, steeps, challenging snow). I don't dig a steady diet of jump turns (as in all the way down the hill) as I'm a fat old man, but it's great to air tricky troughs in the bumps, unforeseen obstacles in loose snow, to release your board in deathcrust, if you punch through windslab, over sastrugi, etc. And it's fun.

This is kind of related, yes? (I know its two-planking, but the concept is still applicable IMO).
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboard curmudgeon View Post

This is kind of related, yes? (I know its two-planking, but the concept is still applicable IMO).
The airplane turn shown in the video is definitely related and applicable to the funky snow conditions talked about (though it was not needed imo in the snow and terrain shown in the video, tough to get sticky crud or breakable crust to appear on command no doubt). I guess the technical types amongst us could say that a full-on jump turn involves no significant carved element to the edging and an airplane turn involves an aerial edge change with various degrees of scarving or carving thereafter?
post #6 of 18
The Hop-turn is even more useful in Snowboarding than Skiing, even if it is used less.

A Skier can always step out of a given line, while a Snowboarder must needs hop.

The Hop-Turn really sets up the skeletal response for turning on a snowboard.

Hop-Turns on flat terrain are good for first-time Snowboarders who have never been on a hill: Try having them do partial directional shift, 10o, then have them work up to 90o.

Most Snowboard students will unconsciously imprint into themselves flexion and extension through this exercise, and it provides an excellent emergency turn.

For advanced Snowboarders, Hop-Turns make the steepest face rideable.

I take advanced snowboard students on very steep faces and introduce them to the weightlessness of "Hop and Drops":

Stand on steep face

Hop up, and bring board around while dropping several feet without contact.

The key is ensuring the student is capable of 180o Hop-turns on flats prior to executing the "Hop and Drop"

Hem



This is a breakthrough technique for most advanced Snowboarders
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hem,

You don't like tip/nose rolls in terms of steeps technique?
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
Hem,

You don't like tip/nose rolls in terms of steeps technique?

CTKook:

Is that a question or merely an unfounded statement

with a question mark added to the end?


Hem
post #9 of 18
Um, if you think jump turns are obsolete then you aren't riding anything steep and tight, period.
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
Um, if you think jump turns are obsolete then you aren't riding anything steep and tight, period.
Personally too steep and tight for keeping the whole board on the snow given conditions I'm looking to do a tip roll, not jump turn, precisely for the added control. Consider it the riding version of the pedal turn. YMMV of course.
post #11 of 18
What the phuck is a tip roll? That is some sort of ski school groomer teaching turn. I'm guessing that the CT in your user name stands for Connecticut, no wonder you know nothing about riding Rocky Mountain pow.
post #12 of 18
Do I have to go all Highway Star on you guys and teach you how to ride real terrain? Cus I will.
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
What the phuck is a tip roll? That is some sort of ski school groomer teaching turn. I'm guessing that the CT in your user name stands for Connecticut, no wonder you know nothing about riding Rocky Mountain pow.

Spot on as far as the Nutmeg State. It's actually a good drill imo for a variety of reasons, that then becomes useful again later in a different context (steeps) as many of these things do. There are these things known as airplanes that are very useful in getting out to the Rockies, though. There's even reasonably steep terrain in the Northeast I'm told.

Try them or don't try them, if you feel putting the board all the way in the air gives you more control than keeping the nose down, have at it.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal's dead View Post
Do I have to go all Highway Star on you guys and teach you how to ride real terrain? Cus I will.
S4? S5?

Where does it start to get real? You have SPUNK, though, Danimal, I have the feeling this place will be more fun over the next couple weeks.

If we can get Cat Jockey to join the party, then we will really have something.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Try them or don't try them, if you feel putting the board all the way in the air gives you more control than keeping the nose down, have at it.
It isn't about control it is about necessity. In deep pow, I live in NW Montana by the Canadian border and the pow can get heavy, in tight trees or tight rocky chutes the only way to quickly get up out of deep pow and switch from heel side to toe side or vice versa is to muscle up and jump up out of the pow. If you try to slowly roll from one edge to another you're gonna get bogged down and smack a tree. In a sense it is more about staying on top of the snow and being light on your toes. In deep snow if you burrow in or get bogged down you will bury your tip and lose control.
post #16 of 18
you both are wrong
no turning is required
straightline it

(sorry, tgr is down and im hurting for entertainment)


seriously though, if a jump turn helps get you down, then is it obsolete?
I can think of a few places a jump turn would be required accross some rocky sections or something similar where you cant ski over it
ie rock + ptex = not good
post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 


Paging Cat Jockey...paging Cat Jockey...(in all seriousness, I think he has great stuff to say).
post #18 of 18
Here I go away for a couple of days and you guys go all ape #@#$ -ooops - let's remember that this is a family place, eh?

Thanks for getting back on track without needing any moderating.

The tip rolls I was taught in Jackson were for hard steep bumps. I don't think they'd work in steep and deep pow. For the extreme competition I watched in Alyeska, riders were still using jump turns on terrain that was steep enough to hold onto while standing up.

Where we live does not preclude the possibility of getting around.
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