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Advice on picking GS skis? Currently on SLs.

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

I've been skiing a pair of 165cm Salomon Equipe 2V's, and I have found that they are just not able to handle the kind of speeds that I really want to ski. They woble from side to side quite a bit, and they really beg to be constantly turned (duah). This is definitely lots of fun, but this upcoming season I want a change from a SL ski to a GS ski for high speed thrills.

I have been looking at the choices, and with a slightly bigger budget this year, there are quite a few: Salomon 2V, Fischer RC4, Volkl Racetiger GS, Rossignol 9X. However, I am just not able to tell the difference among these based on skireviews.co.uk and product websites.

I am 6ft 2, 185lb, will be skiing in the Catskills (1200ft drop) on diamonds and double diamonds, hard and fast, no bumps, mostly without gates. I am currently considering skis in the 180-185cm range from the 05-06 season (I have no urge to burn cash for the latest & greatest).

Any advice on picking a particular GS ski? Is my target ski length range correct? What DIN range should I consider for the bindings?

Thank you for your help,

Maxim
post #2 of 23
Hum, demo and find what you like...
I'm biased towards Dynastar GS ski, usualy quite 'friendly' boards for freeskiing with a GS feel, so I would recommend a Dynastar course 67... But, as always it's a matter of personal taste : The Course or the Rossi 9X tend to be softer and easier than their austrian competitors, the Salomon 'consumer' GS is sometimes consdered as too soft.
You could also consider the top of the line skicrosses : Dynastar skicross Pro, Volkl superspeed, atomic SX 10, Stocklï Lasercross Pro...
It could depend on which model you could get a great price.

No reason to change your DIN setting.
post #3 of 23
I know that the Elan GSX and Fischer WC GS are both pretty cheap on the web. You would probably want to buy a plate along with the Elans, whereas the Fischers come with a plate. I've never ridden either, but apparently the Elans have a smooth, damp feel and ride long, while the Fischers have a lot of snow feel. Here are some results that I found from a search.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...light=elan+gsx
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...light=elan+gsx
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...hlight=fischer
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...hlight=fischer
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...hlight=fischer
post #4 of 23
The reviews at realskiers.com would be more helpful.
post #5 of 23

Here's what I think...

...First, keep your slaloms, there's times you'll want them.

Second, all of the skis you mention are good, here's what I think:

Salomon 2V - Never skied on Salomons but they're supposed to be user friendly.

Fischer RC4 - Very precise, but tough ski to manage.

Volkl Racetiger GS - If they are anything like the SLs, very snaky and user friendly. Hold well, too.

Rossignol 9X - Dunno. I hear Rossis are getting better (again), but I wasn't too impressed with the ones I tried a few years back.

You should also consider Atomic and Head. You can probably find a pair of Atomic GS 11Ms for not much money. I'd go for the non-FIS legal 19-meter sidecut...probably a little more versatile for high speed cruising than the race stock version. I have a pair of the 180 cm. GS12s, non-FIS legal...great skis, more energy than the GS 11Ms, more like a true GS ski...but more $$$, too.

I'm going back to FIS legal for races, and the first thing I tried was a pair of 2006 Head IGS RDs, 185 cm., with the 25.2 meter sidecut. They were a steal at $239, and they are incredible...smooth, damp, very stable at high speed, great GS turn shape. I liked them so much I got a 183 cm. pair of the 2007 ski, and I can't wait to get on them:

http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/mercha...roduct_Count=0

Number 3, if you don't already have one, get a helmet and wear it.

Number 4, seriously consider getting into a Masters race program or similar. Cruising with the public is fine if you do it off hours and/or have plenty of space, but training GS on a closed course is safer and a lot more fun, too...
post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for your responses. I am happy to be able to share my obsession with others.

Value: I initially wanted to get a pair of Atomic GS:11m's or a pair of Salomon 2V Race or Lab skis, but after expanding my search, I realized that there are more attractively priced options out there. 05-06 Fischers seem like a prime example!

Length: How does non-racing 19-21 radius at 185cm sound for my stats? Would 5cm up or down really make any difference? Most of my skiing won't be on not too big of a mountain (1200ft, split twice), so it seems that any larger radius (FIS-legal?) would be a bad choice.

DIN: The reason I asked is because after one pre-release and single-leg emergency skiing down a massive steep, I would love not to repeat that experience. I would probably go for a 6-14 type binding with a new pair.

Masters: Unfortunately I am not yet aware of any Masters programs around here, but I would join one in a hearbeat! People I know don't take skiing as seriously as I do, their loss.

Helmet: Wouldn't even venture on the slope without. One ruined day of skiing after a skier collision was enough.
post #7 of 23
post #8 of 23

See below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by superski View Post
Thank you all for your responses. I am happy to be able to share my obsession with others.

Value: I initially wanted to get a pair of Atomic GS:11m's or a pair of Salomon 2V Race or Lab skis, but after expanding my search, I realized that there are more attractively priced options out there. 05-06 Fischers seem like a prime example!

Length: How does non-racing 19-21 radius at 185cm sound for my stats? Would 5cm up or down really make any difference? Most of my skiing won't be on not too big of a mountain (1200ft, split twice), so it seems that any larger radius (FIS-legal?) would be a bad choice.

DIN: The reason I asked is because after one pre-release and single-leg emergency skiing down a massive steep, I would love not to repeat that experience. I would probably go for a 6-14 type binding with a new pair.

Masters: Unfortunately I am not yet aware of any Masters programs around here, but I would join one in a hearbeat! People I know don't take skiing as seriously as I do, their loss.

Helmet: Wouldn't even venture on the slope without. One ruined day of skiing after a skier collision was enough.
I just think the Fischers are going to be a bear to turn, and from what I can see, the World Cup skis come in FIS legal only. There's a detuned version, but I'd stay away from it. Go with the GS 11Ms (I think the 19 meter sidecut is a good choice), in a 180 cm, put Atomic 6/14s on them, and you'll have the additional advantage that you can move the bindings all over the place to fine tune things. See the New England Masters site for a start on training opportunities:

http://www.nemasters.org/
post #9 of 23
How about something wider but race like if you're mostly going to freeski them? Like a Stockli stormrider XL, or head im82?
post #10 of 23

I doubt it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
How about something wider but race like if you're mostly going to freeski them? Like a Stockli stormrider XL, or head im82?
...not from the description of what the guy wants to do and what he's been skiing on. Get a pair of 19-meter GS skis, and you can ski anywhere except big bumps. I've even skied powder on a GS 11M, and it's not bad because the tipis pretty fat...
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...not from the description of what the guy wants to do and what he's been skiing on. Get a pair of 19-meter GS skis, and you can ski anywhere except big bumps. I've even skied powder on a GS 11M, and it's not bad because the tipis pretty fat...
Uh....no, please re-read:

Quote:
Originally Posted by superski View Post
I've been skiing a pair of 165cm Salomon Equipe 2V's, and I have found that they are just not able to handle the kind of speeds that I really want to ski. They woble from side to side quite a bit, and they really beg to be constantly turned (duah). This is definitely lots of fun, but this upcoming season I want a change from a SL ski to a GS ski for high speed thrills..........I am 6ft 2, 185lb, will be skiing in the Catskills (1200ft drop) on diamonds and double diamonds, hard and fast, no bumps, mostly without gates. I am currently considering skis in the 180-185cm range from the 05-06 season (I have no urge to burn cash for the latest & greatest).
Seriously, the sooner you learn that race skis are not so good for freeskiing, the happier you will be. Unless you are skiing glare ice or gates all the time, you're better off with a burly midfat or cross type ski. For this guy, something 70mm to 90mm at the waist, with a 180 to 195 cm length, 20m to 30m sidecut and a wood/metal construction is going to work much better, unless he's running gates more than 10% of the time. Even then, a stockli laser cross pro or stormrider xl will kill it in the gates, and be way better all round. Go in the 80mm+ waist range if you're going to ski both ice and mixed soft snow with them. If don't have a mid-fat already, get one.
post #12 of 23
From the bargain bin... An older Volkl Supersport Superspeed, might be good for what you talking about, judging from what I've heard.
post #13 of 23
Go to volkl.com/ski

Download their 06/07 product guide. (pdf)

Check out:

Racetiger GS Titanium (19.1m radius @ 180cm)
Racetiger RC Titanium (17.3m radius @ 178cm)

I rave about these skis all the time. They do it all. I am on snow 100+ days - always at gentleman's gs speed. These skis will fit the bill - just what you're looking for.
post #14 of 23

Whatever...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
Uh....no, please re-read:



Seriously, the sooner you learn that race skis are not so good for freeskiing, the happier you will be. Unless you are skiing glare ice or gates all the time, you're better off with a burly midfat or cross type ski. For this guy, something 70mm to 90mm at the waist, with a 180 to 195 cm length, 20m to 30m sidecut and a wood/metal construction is going to work much better, unless he's running gates more than 10% of the time. Even then, a stockli laser cross pro or stormrider xl will kill it in the gates, and be way better all round. Go in the 80mm+ waist range if you're going to ski both ice and mixed soft snow with them. If don't have a mid-fat already, get one.
...my advice is, get a pair of GS skis in whatever flavor and go out and see how they feel. Something that's not a GS ski will not kill it in the gates, or even in fast free skiing...trust me...I've skied on everything and raced Masters for 15 years...you want a GS ski, get a GS ski...
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...my advice is, get a pair of GS skis in whatever flavor and go out and see how they feel. Something that's not a GS ski will not kill it in the gates, or even in fast free skiing...trust me...I've skied on everything and raced Masters for 15 years...you want a GS ski, get a GS ski...
No way. You wouldn't be making that statement if you had skied some of the burlier midfat freeskiing skis out there.
post #16 of 23
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
No way. You wouldn't be making that statement if you had skied some of the burlier midfat freeskiing skis out there.
So, HS,
Tell me, cause I really haven't been on any new high-speed LR skis AT ALL. If those burly freeskiing skis are so good in the gates, why do Atomic and the other main brands make GS race stock skis instead of just copying the LP or stormrider XL (not to mention SG and DH skis)? I can easily see how the midfats would be better on softer snow and off the groomed hardpack.
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the replies and a small religious war. :-)

With your ideas in mind, I see the following options (skis approx 185cm):
FIS-Legal ("race stock") GS Skis: r 23-27m
Non-FIS-Legal ("expert") GS Skis: r 19m
Skiercross Skis: r typically between 19-21m

It doesn't seem to make sense for me to go FIS-legal on my first long turning ski. If I feel that need, eBay seems to have no shortage of used race stock skis. This leaves question:

1) Get non-FIS-legal GS or get skiercross with similar turning radius? For example, what is the difference between a 180cm Atomic SX:11m vs consumer 186cm Atomic GS:11m?

2) The Stockli Laser Cross Pro doesn't come with a plate out of the factory. Where can I get a plate for it and what kind of binding can I install?

3) What would be the closest competitor to the Volkl Supersport Superspeed?
post #19 of 23
1- Cheater GS skis and top of the line skiercrosses are very similar, sometimes identical (but for the topsheet and sometimes the plate). Some skicrosses are even more radical than consumer GS of the same brand.(skiercrosses racers typicaly use GS skis anyway).
Don't know precisely for the Atomics.
2-No particular insight.
3- Stockli Laser cross Anything super stiff that does not want to turn...
post #20 of 23
I expect most GS skis to have a slightly longer radius than the same-length SX ski.

I suggest you get the longest radius you can find; that way after the novelty wears off the GS ski, you will have a good excuse to buy the SX ski that fits between your SL and GS.
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
So, HS,
Tell me, cause I really haven't been on any new high-speed LR skis AT ALL. If those burly freeskiing skis are so good in the gates, why do Atomic and the other main brands make GS race stock skis instead of just copying the LP or stormrider XL (not to mention SG and DH skis)? I can easily see how the midfats would be better on softer snow and off the groomed hardpack.
Well, assuming this is a serious question, I'll give a serious answer. Most of the big-big, wood/metal laminate skis out there have 30-35m sidecuts and a very super-G feel to them even though they typically use only 2 sheets of Ti (vs. 3 in super-g) and a less dense wood core - the extra mass due to the width makes up for the less dense construction. I'm talking about 193/4 and 201 stocklis, 194 lp's, 194 squads, 193 im103's, etc, etc. I own 201 asteroids, and 218cm volkl DH's with a deflex....asteriods are much like wide super-g ski, or a wide mid-late 90's 200cm+ gs ski with a 30+m cut. Even without a plate, they are very stable in chop. You could run a recreational DH with them no-probemo. SO YES, THEY MOST CERTAINLY KILL IT IN HIGH SPEED FREESKIING, due to the width and comparable stability, way more so than any race stock GS ever built, period.

The other class would be wide-GS race stock, such as M777's, im88's, 186 lp's, stormy XL's, etc. Anything 70-90mm waist, 20-30m radius, race constuction. Some of the longer, narrower selections are more like a race stock GS ski than any commercial GS out there. Hell, my 192cm 1st gen stormy's I have are full 3-sheet SG constuction, 28m radius, and are more "race-stock like" than my 200cm P30 RS race stock!!! You can run a rec-GS on skis in this class no problem, and even do really well on something like the XL. I wouldn't race competitively on them at a high level obviously, but if you're only in the gates for fun on occasion, they will do fine, while being massively better for a variety of freeskiing.
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by superski View Post
2) The Stockli Laser Cross Pro doesn't come with a plate out of the factory. Where can I get a plate for it and what kind of binding can I install?
One of the normal vist race plates would be a pretty sick setup, ditto for a stormrider XL with a plate.

Keep in mind most "real" mens GS skis are actually in the 25m to 30m radius range. 22m is actually pretty short and can be bent into a small GS turn if the flex is right (soft enough). I personally find the sub 20m radius of cheater GS's to be too short.....but I suppose they are good for running tight, flat rec-GS courses where you can't get enough speed for a high edge angle. Most ski-cross skis are 100% marketing, and are just rec-carving skis (except for the Laser Pro, which seems to be the real deal).
post #23 of 23
Here's a review I wrote from a couple of years ago. I ended up buying the Fischer RC4 WC RC (cheater GS ski, 17M radius @ 175cm) and am very happy with them. Haven't found a speed limit and we're skiing in the same area. I'm an inch shorter and about the same weight as you. The 175's work fine. I already had a 20M radius ski and wanted to go a bit smaller, but not all the way to a slalom carver. I agree with some on this thread that a full-on GS ski is just too narrow in its focus.

The thing I like about my skis and didn't particularly like about the RX series from Fischer was the vert sidewall vs. cap construction. Apparently the RX series is also vert sidewall this year...

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...highlight=Skis
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