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please help with New Skis!!!!!!!

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
just moved to denver from the midwest, so i'm used to skiing in groomed ice. i plan on getting in 30+ days this year and i'm quite athletic. as far as ability, i've probably only been skiing 20times, but i can handle most single blacks. i would love an all mountain ski that will also give me room to grow, as i am hoping to make significant progress this winter as well as doing some bowl/powder skiiing. I am looking at last years models to save $ and my budget is about $500. So far, i have heard that the salomon scrambler custom or scrambler 7's would be perfect. the customs cost $350(no bondings) and the 7's $380 ( bindings included). I have also heard the atomic m8's are nice.
any advice on other these or other ski's would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
post #2 of 29
Boots.

Get proper fitting boots first, spend as much money on them as you need to in order to get the right pair for your feet. Then see how much you have left for skis. Read the bootfitting FAQ threads here for more info.

As far as the skis go, I would caution you away from the Scramblers. I've had a run or two on both the Custom and Scrambler 10, and was entirely unimpressed. They are not a bad ski, but IMO they are extremely mediocre in everything, and excel in nothing. I got more time with the X-Wing series and I found them to be far more lively, I'd say they are great in just about everything, but again not exceptional in any one area. An X-Wing 10 (8, Hurricane or Blast etc.) would be a far better choice. I can guarantee you'd have a lot more fun with them than the Scramblers, but obviously they won't be as cheap.

For looking a year or two old you might have luck with Rossi Bandit B2's from any of the last few years, or last years B3's. They would be ideal skis for you, and since they're fairly common you'll have a decent chance of picking up a reasonably priced pair.

You could also consider some twin tips, such as K2 Public Enemy's as they are nice and cheap, especially for years past. Lots of better skis than the Scramblers out there, do some reading on here and keep your eyes open for the deals.
post #3 of 29
Yes, boots.
As for the skis : there are dozens of models avalaible in that segment, around 80-85mm waist. None of them are really bad. It's the core of the market now.
Good advices from Singel. A dynastar 8000 could also fit the bill. Or a Volkl AC4 - 724 pro. Or lots of skis actualy.
post #4 of 29
For a solid all-mountain, I would suggest the following:

K2 Apache Recon
Atomic M:EX

You can probably find the M:EX for around $300ish, since they discontinued it this season. Both of those are about an 84 underfoot, which makes them pretty solid all-mountain skis.

They were both on my short list 2 seasons ago, but I got indecisive (and had way too much fun demoing) so I never got them. Although I am looking to snag a pair of the M:EX's from cut-out this season.

You could also look at the Volkl Karma and the AK No Ka Oi (they're on sale at the AK site as well as at Kirkwood ski resort, provided they have any left in stock).

I skied my Karmas at Breckinridge and Keystone this past April and had a blast on 'em.
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

thanks

thanks for the advice. my biggest fear is getting a ski that is too difficult to turn. my old ski's are 75 at the waist. i already snagged a pair of boots..salomon x wave 7 for $200 that fit very nicely...took me 3 hours to find the perfect fit. that leaves me with about $500 for ski's and bindings. I think the karma's are too fat in the waist and too advanced for me.

currently, spend about 70%-80% of time on groomed (from midwest so didn't have a choice)but am looking to change that this year to 40% groomed, 30% bumps, 30% off groomed. currently, can't do moguls nad am mediocre at best off groomed. given that, where what skis would you go with.
thanks, doug
post #6 of 29
AC2 or AC3 from Volkl
Metron M10 from Atomic
Titan 8 from Blizzard
post #7 of 29
Head 72's, Fischer AMC76, volkl AC3/2, Elan Magfire 10 are great skis for improving intermediates. Better yet, See if you can lease for a season. This may be a great alternative, especially if you think you will be advancing quickly. Don't get a ski too far over your ability, take the time to develop the skills first. Can't over state this too Much, make sure your boots are dialed in. Did you get beds made? that may be a very good place to invest $100-$150, just get to a good fitter like Jeff Bergeron in Breck.
post #8 of 29
Since I own both a pair of Karmas and Blizzard Titan 8, I can say if you think the Karma is too much ski for you, avoid the BT8. That ski is the one ski I demoed last year that made me decide to finally get a helmet. It's fast and not at all turny. Very stable, so that when you're doing Mach 8 With Your Hair On Fire it won't skip or glitch.

I had a great time on the K2 Apache Recon. Very turny for a ski with a 80+ waist. Did well in bumps, boiler, and light powder. Ditto for the M:EX.

Also, I've found that I enjoy my AK No Ka Oi's in mild all-mountain conditions (it's a 78 underfoot). http://www.akski-usa.com/


I come from having skied on Rossi 7S's, so I know your "fear" about the wider waisted skis. But really, these days quite a few of the "wider" mid-fats are quite turny.

You may also want to scope out Elan, the Magfire series. They are somewhere in the 75-78 waisted range. Ditto for the Fischer AMC series. I've also been recommended the Head iM 77 by several folks over the past two seasons, but never tried it.
post #9 of 29
Dookey, the new 82 is actually more nimble and quicker than the 77. Its a fantastic ski but this guy sounds more like a level 6 too much is going to be overwhelming.
post #10 of 29
I'm more advanced than intermediate, but I second the mention of the Elan Magfire 10. They are 76 mm in the waist I believe, and have a big sidecut so a wide tip and tail. They were very fun on groomed and crud and were not punishing at all. I'm guessing that an intermediate looking to improve could benefit a lot from these skis. They can also be had for relatively cheap. You can probably find them with bindings for around 500.
post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by poogo View Post
thanks for the advice. my biggest fear is getting a ski that is too difficult to turn. my old ski's are 75 at the waist. i already snagged a pair of boots..salomon x wave 7 for $200 that fit very nicely...took me 3 hours to find the perfect fit. that leaves me with about $500 for ski's and bindings. I think the karma's are too fat in the waist and too advanced for me.

currently, spend about 70%-80% of time on groomed (from midwest so didn't have a choice)but am looking to change that this year to 40% groomed, 30% bumps, 30% off groomed. currently, can't do moguls nad am mediocre at best off groomed. given that, where what skis would you go with.
thanks, doug
Hmmm...

You might want to join some of us at the early-season demos at Loveland (usually the 2nd and/or 3rd weekend in November) to play on some different skis.

I think that given your desire to get older skis, you might be best served with some older Rossi B3s or K2 Apache Recons due to their more gentle natures. Some of the others (like the Atomics, Fischers, and Elans) have more life and so might be a bit more to handle, especially this first year out here.

Another possibility is to demo for the first few months, getting a day on each of a number of skis, and then snagging them as the prices come down in late January/early February.
post #12 of 29
I'll echo SSH's last post.

I skied the Magfire 12 last season and found it a bit squirrely. It loved to turn. Can only guess that the 10 would be similar, given the narrower waistline.

I would also recommend demoing. That's the ticket. Although demoing can lead to more confusion and more choices, as it's addictive as hell to try a bunch of different skis.

And I know everybody keeps adding new suggestions, thus making your choices that much more convoluted, but nobody has mentioned the Line Prophet 80. I skied this last year and found it really comparable to the K2 Apache Recon. You should still be able to snag some 05/06 Line's for cheap. Anyway, it's an 80mm waisted ski that holds well on groomers and cuts through soft snow fairly well. You might want to consider looking into that, as well.

I'll toss in a second on the Rossi B2, as well. I skied that the 04/05 season in Sun Valley and it was quite nice on slick groomers and in warm sludgy moguls.

So, my final suggestions are:
K2 Apache Recon
Atomic M:EX
Line Prophet 80
Rossi B2

All of those I found to be pretty nimble and pretty solid for most average, everyday conditions.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
I would also recommend demoing. That's the ticket. Although demoing can lead to more confusion and more choices, as it's addictive as hell to try a bunch of different skis.
...especially if you hook up with some demo-hungry EpicSki Bears! We had about 10 of us up there last year, and probably will have more this time around...
post #14 of 29
Jsut curious, do they lease for the season out west? this is very popular here in the NY/NJ/PA area.
post #15 of 29
you mean actually leasing a pair of skis?

can't say that I've ever heard of that being offered from any of the shops in Tahoe (either North or South) or any of the shops around here in San Francisco/Bay Area.

only thing I've ever seen is frequent demo discounts (i.e. they're cheaper the more days you demo, as in $45 for one day, $40 for two, etc...prices also vary between shops...the most i've ever paid is $60 for a day, but that included unlimited testing of at least 5 brands. cheapest I've ever paid has been like $26 a day).

if you lease the skis for a whole season, do you have the option to buy them at the end of the season? does this lease include switching skis during the season or are you stuck with the same pair all year?

most of the shops out here will take at least 2 days worth of demoing off the price of the skis should you choose to purchase them.
post #16 of 29
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that I don't really see the point of doing a lot of demoing if your total budget for skis and bindings is $500. Maybe a day or two to get a sense of how you like different widths & sidecuts, and of course if you can go to a free demoe day, then demo all you like. But paying a shop 40 bucks a day to demo, you could use up your whole budget, and you might only get a days worth back IF you buy from that shop. And if you want a used ski you won't be able to demo those--So my advice is that you probably want a moderately wide (70-80mm) ski, with a moderate sidecut (14-18) that isn't too stiff. If you are really athletic and committed you will probably make a lot of progress, and everything about your skiing will change in the next couple of years--THEN you can think about what kind of skiing you like and spend more on a ski to take you further. The other thing is you don't say your size, or really how good your are now; two questions I'd have are (1) do you like to ski fast?, and (2) when you turn, do you know whether you are shifting the weight to the new outside ski before you start the turn or after you start it with a slight wedge? (btw, Lito Tejeda Flores _Breakthrough on the New Skis_ might be worth getting for you).

as far as used skis:
some specific models that meet the criteria above:

Head Monster 70, 72, 75, 77 (those are different years)
Rossi B2 (may even a B1, on the narrow end)
Volk G3, G31. AX3, Vertigo Motion (roughly the same ski)
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by poogo View Post
just moved to denver from the midwest, so i'm used to skiing in groomed ice. i plan on getting in 30+ days this year and i'm quite athletic. as far as ability, i've probably only been skiing 20times, but i can handle most single blacks. i would love an all mountain ski that will also give me room to grow, as i am hoping to make significant progress this winter as well as doing some bowl/powder skiiing. I am looking at last years models to save $ and my budget is about $500. So far, i have heard that the salomon scrambler custom or scrambler 7's would be perfect. the customs cost $350(no bondings) and the 7's $380 ( bindings included). I have also heard the atomic m8's are nice.
any advice on other these or other ski's would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
I have a set of Scrambler 8's I used all last year and I really like them. Most of the folks on this forum dont like the scrambler series or the pilot system. At least thats what I gather from reading post. I'm 42 and I want a ski thats fun and easy that allows me to push it hard.The skis I have allow me to do that. If your younger than me you may want a stiffer ski. I also have a set of Trouble Makers that are alot of fun. If I were going to ski alot out west I would probably get a pair of Nordica Ignition twin tips.There's a ton of good information on this forum and I'm sure it will help you get the right ski.
post #18 of 29
It sounds like you really need to be improving your technique on the groomers. Time spent really learning to carve short radius turns on the groomed will pay off in allowing you a solid base to start skiing moguls and ungroomed much better. To make this as easy as possible, I would be looking for a ski in the 66mm - 72mm range with a turning radius of 15m or less. Go short too, probably something in the 160-170cm range.

A ski with those characteristics is going to be easy to put up on edge and dynamic at lower speeds. This will make learning to ski easier since the ski will be helping you out. Don't worry so much about going wider because the skiing you do will not require a ski that can float in a ton of powder. That comes later and the reasonably wide tip on most of those skis will be good enough for the soft snow you do ski in.

I'd suggest something like the Head XRC 800, Head Monster 72 , Atomic Izor 9:7, Fischer RX8. Any of these can be had for a killer bargain on an 05 model.
post #19 of 29
I'll join the recommanndation of a ski around 75mm and add to the list the Dynastar 4800 (rather traditional shape), the Fisher AMC 74 (more shaped) and the Scott Aztec Pro (very short radius. Not very avalaible in the US I think), all light and easy skis, that don't shine at high speeds but highly versatile, and the Rossi Z5 more groomer oriented but a great carving tool that won't punish a lack of technique.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
you mean actually leasing a pair of skis?

can't say that I've ever heard of that being offered from any of the shops in Tahoe (either North or South) or any of the shops around here in San Francisco/Bay Area.

only thing I've ever seen is frequent demo discounts (i.e. they're cheaper the more days you demo, as in $45 for one day, $40 for two, etc...prices also vary between shops...the most i've ever paid is $60 for a day, but that included unlimited testing of at least 5 brands. cheapest I've ever paid has been like $26 a day).

if you lease the skis for a whole season, do you have the option to buy them at the end of the season? does this lease include switching skis during the season or are you stuck with the same pair all year?

most of the shops out here will take at least 2 days worth of demoing off the price of the skis should you choose to purchase them.
Its a great deal especially for kids or if you are learning with a steep curve. You lease poles, boots and skis for a season. You can buy at the end of the season if you want. The price depends on the ski type, etc. I know that my friend was able to switch out boots when their kid out grew them but I don't know if they are going to start switching out brand new skis. I would think this would be very popular out there.
post #21 of 29
Here's a good demo deal. 4 days for $69 - through Breeze/Max and at Copper and WP. Or $189 for the entire season - blocked out Christams. http://www.passwagon.com/rental_demo.htm

They may not have all the brands you want, but they have most (they have a lot of Soloman, Rossi and K2).
You should have these on your demo list: Recon, B2, Legend 8000. The new B1 is not the old B1 - so if you want to try this make sure it is the 2004 model (old graphics). The 2005/2006 and 2006/2007 B2 is better then the 2004/2005. If you buy the 4 pack demo, you should be able to try 12 skis without any problem. The you can go and purchase a pair in your price range.
post #22 of 29
I'm looking for a ski that is quick, snappy, responsive. I love to ski the steeps. Something that is consistant in hardpack and ice and will hold up in the moguls. I love being launched into my next turn. I consider myself an expert, weight 170lbs 5'9". I rode Dynastar verticals back in the day and loved them. Unfortuantly, they where stolen back then, so I've been on a board for the last 10yrs. I am skiing a monster 85 and am now looking for snap.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
Jsut curious, do they lease for the season out west? this is very popular here in the NY/NJ/PA area.
The seasonal leases tend to be for the entry level gear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometjo View Post
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that I don't really see the point of doing a lot of demoing if your total budget for skis and bindings is $500. Maybe a day or two to get a sense of how you like different widths & sidecuts, and of course if you can go to a free demoe day, then demo all you like. But paying a shop 40 bucks a day to demo, you could use up your whole budget, and you might only get a days worth back IF you buy from that shop. And if you want a used ski you won't be able to demo those--So my advice is that you probably want a moderately wide (70-80mm) ski, with a moderate sidecut (14-18) that isn't too stiff. If you are really athletic and committed you will probably make a lot of progress, and everything about your skiing will change in the next couple of years--THEN you can think about what kind of skiing you like and spend more on a ski to take you further. The other thing is you don't say your size, or really how good your are now; two questions I'd have are (1) do you like to ski fast?, and (2) when you turn, do you know whether you are shifting the weight to the new outside ski before you start the turn or after you start it with a slight wedge? (btw, Lito Tejeda Flores _Breakthrough on the New Skis_ might be worth getting for you).

as far as used skis:
some specific models that meet the criteria above:

Head Monster 70, 72, 75, 77 (those are different years)
Rossi B2 (may even a B1, on the narrow end)
Volk G3, G31. AX3, Vertigo Motion (roughly the same ski)
I have a pair of 724 Pro's I would sell cheap 170 w/ Salomon drivers. 200.00 shipped.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
I skied the Magfire 12 last season and found it a bit squirrely. It loved to turn. Can only guess that the 10 would be similar, given the narrower waistline.
Don't guess. I skied bnoth last year and they are completely different skis. The 12 is stiffer and has a different sidecut. I skied each in the 168 length. The 12 is 116-76-102 for a radius of 16. The 10 is 126-75-109 for a radius of 13. You can tell just from geometry that they won't ski AT ALL alike.
post #25 of 29
Got ya a deal... EpicSki auction for the AMC 79...
post #26 of 29
Based on what you've said I would strongly consider going with a twin tip, like the 1080 thruster, or the line prophet 80. Though your budget is a little more constrictive, and if you're going to put you're money anywhere make sure you take care of bindings first, as these are the things that will keep you from breaking your leg. Get a good set of bindings like the Rossi Axial 120's, which with their pivoting heel and toe piece, will allow you to set your bindings at the correct DIN for your level without worrying about "premature ejection." Then with the $300 you have left, get a good set of midfats like the Rossi B1's or B2's (04/05...not 05/06 or 06/07) Also, if you want to LEARN to ski bumps with these skis make sure you don't get a ski with a metal laminate, as one good stuff into the front of the mogul can bend the metal, and that is irreparable (just ask anyone who crashed a Volkl 724 series ski). Also stear clear of system skis, as they are designed to enhance carving capability, which is exactly what you don't want in the bumps or the powder.
post #27 of 29
First off, if you demo from most shops in the Denver area, they ususally put the cost of your demo towards the price of your skis- so its not lost money. $500 can go a long way towards skis and bindings- look here and TGR for deals, you're bound to find something you like.

Personally, I'm not sure what kind of skier you are or preferences you have, but I wouldn't get anything less than an 80 waist out here in CO. If you're only going to have one pair of skis and want to push yourself off the groomers, it'll be pointless going with a "skinny" ski. Look at something like the Seth Vicious from last year (can easily be found for $300 on TGR or craigslist) or the Karmas or Gotamas. You won't regret buying any of those skis.
post #28 of 29

help with new skis as well please

I'm male 60 5'9'' good intermediate Aussie who gets a month in Utah/Wyoming/Colorado - very lucky. Fairly agressive but very slow down moguls. Spend almost all time on groomers with Dynastar 64's - 158. Like them but want to get off-piste more with something easier and not get bogged down when we get deeper snow. Still want good edges.Tried Atomic Metron 11 but don't know what model does what in their range. Suggestions welcome on any brand please.
Also if you know of a good instructor avail Feb ( Park City/Deer Valley) to take me off trail more please advise.
Thanks
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
The seasonal leases tend to be for the entry level gear.
You can lease any ski, its just that mostly novices are interested in leasing as they will either out-grow physically or skill-wise, that;s the benefit of the lease.
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