or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Who said it?

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
“Actually, ski instruction has become a detrimental tradition perpetuated by famous names and ski countries.
Few dare to touch it despite all experiences to the contrary.

The laws of evolution seem unable to penetrate the established clichés.
It is high time to come out of the shell and try to correct the discrepancies between the old theories and the new techniques.”

...and where did it first appear in print in America?

post #2 of 5
Thread Starter 
No Takers?

post #3 of 5
Big guess. Hannes Schneider 1939
post #4 of 5
Guess again. Here's a hint...
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
Just Another Ski Pro:
Thank you for that citation of early ski texts.
Anyone interested in mamboing on 220 cm hickory skis in short Kastinger leather lace-up boots will undoubtedly find the content priceless.
As for finding an Allais trained instructor, I can certainly assist you toward that end.
I don’t consider one’s ability to cite textual reference to be the litmus test of one’s technical efficacy. I do appreciate your citing of archaic texts to corroborate my statement that pole-planting is not essential to short-swing turns.
By “education and reinforcement”, I meant that many habitual pole-planters exist because that’s what they were taught and reinforced.
In your last post, you invite me to corroborate with, presumably, textual reference.
When we examine Peter Estin’s 1964 AST Manual “Skiing The American way”, we see Herr Estin’s delineation of wedeln being a final form consisting of a series of incomplete parallel turns, and short-swinging as a series of complete parallel turns. This is the definitive difference, hence, by the reference you’ve provided, your claim of interchangeability of the two final forms seems inaccurate.
Much of the attendant confusion surrounding the AST manual derives from the fact that
The PSIA manual “ The Offical American Ski Technique” was also first published in 1964,
And presented by the PSIA Board Of Directors, Bill Lash, Pres.
This text introduced “Check Hop Garlands” to develop pole plants and , inadvertently, as the predecessor to modern short-swing technique.
In fact, The short-swing comprised the “F” class of the PSIA progression during that era. The distinction between wedeln and short-swing isn’t directly made in this earliest PSIA manual.

It’s interesting to note that the 1964 PSIA manual lists, among “problems encountered
In short Swing”: “Jerky Rythm”.

In his 1974 text “The Complete Ski Handbook”, Neil Robinson (PSIA/USEASA)
Further enumerates “a series of parallel christies but without any linking traverses”
into the wedeln’s composition. Mr. Robinson does wedeln the service of literal translation from german as “Tail-wagging”

Eddie Huber and Norman Rogers, in their
1946 treatise “The Complete Ski Manual”,
identify the “Jerked Parallel Christiania” as a sometime slalom racing movement, with the inner pole held near the ski tip, exaggerated vertical motion, and an explosive ruade.
Such a maneuver clearly laid the groundwork for later short-swing and
elephant hops.

A year later, 1947 brought us Sverre Engen’s “Ski With Sense”, (Sverre clarified, for the greater skiing public, the Arlberg concept of “drifting” the skis in the abstem)
, sverre, known for the airy, free-armed, Scandinavian style of pole-plant free skiing, described pole use thusly: “An acrobat walking a tightrope over Niagra Falls
carries a long pole. You carry ski poles for the same purpose: to improve your balance”

Walter Prager (First Dartmouth Ski Coach)
Described pole use, in his archetypal 1939 text “Skiing”, thusly: "In an emergency on steep terrain where trees, heavy snow, or some other obstacle hinders the use of momentum for turns, the poles may be called in to help "
Clearly, pole-planting was less the order of the day in prewar AST.

By 1968, Jean Vuarnet and Georges Joubert brought us “Comment Se Perfectionner A Ski”, which broke from the traditional French “projection circulaire”, which had highlit
Rotation as the impetus for turn initiation.
Thankfully, the French accepted angulation in 1958, which empowered Jean and Georges, a decade later, to
expound upon “check-wedeln”, which laid further groundwork for our modern short-swing turn, wherein they state that “successful wedeln depends upon your position during the edge set and pole plant”,a statement which certainly implicates the essentiality of pole-planting to wedeln, at least in gallic eyes.
One of the most essential advancements which Jean and Georges brought to the wedeln plate was this statement:
“steering the outside foot can be added to the movement, but it is not essential”
messrs Vuarnet and Joubert considered the check-wedeln to be the last logical step before mastery of the “Jet turn” which
later that year, their compatriate, Jean-Claude Killy, brought into the center stage with his definitive text: “Skiing, The Killy Way” (with the assistance d’anglais of Doug Pfeiffer).
In that definitive text, Jean-Claude states that “if you plan to ski fast and on the steep slopes, you must master pole-planting”.
Jean-claude urges the student to consider the pole-plant a “commitment to turn”…of course, jean-Claude was a proponent of, in his translated words, “pronounced up unweighting”.
6 years later, Stu Campbell gifted us with
Ski With The Big Boys”, wherein he states that “We get dangerously close to dictating style when we start to pick on somebody’s pole plant”. (This statement, in my opinion, should should be repeated each morning by every professional ski instructor, industry-wide)
Stu also describes the pole plant as “an important timing device which ‘triggers’ the up motion”.
If, in fact, we are to consider demonstrative vertical motion to be an archaic concept, this descriptor of pole use renders poles even more archaic.
Stu erroneously translates wedeln to be a derivative of the german word for “waves”, so we are reminded that even the loftiest are not infallible or always correct.
In fact, Stu essentially breaks wedeln down into a “sinking motion” and a “lifting or unweighting motion”
I’m sure you can see why I don’t lend too much crdibilty to older textual references when discussing modern ski technique, justanotheskipro.
I do concider Stu to be a brilliant and easygoing Ski educator.

I have always remembered the wisdom presented by Toni Ducia and Dr. Harold Reinl in their definitive text,
Le Ski Aujourd’ Hui
back in 1935:

“Actually, ski instruction has become a detrimental tradition perpetuated by famous names and ski countries.
Few dare to touch it despite all experiences to the contrary.
The laws of evolution seem unable to penetrate the established clichés.
It is high time to come out of the shell and try to correct the discrepancies between the old theories and the new techniques.”

Anyone know where, and by whom, this quote was first presented in it’s English translation?

And, with that, justanotherskipro, I invite you to consider embarking upon this season with a clean hard-drive and a thirst to emulate the actual principles of our earlier ski education predecessors in experimenting to develop a uniquely modern movement progression which parallels the technological advances we’re gifted with our 21st century equipment.

Cast aside all the old academic rote and try some new approaches, and try not to categorize others as “wrong”, but to actually try out what they’re propogating.

I appreciate your valuable input

Thank You

post #5 of 5
Thread Starter 
First english translation of this excellent ethos was in

the first PSIA Manual.

(I have my original copy)

Remember this for critics of the Association.

Thank You

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching