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Global Warming, Global Shmarming - New Ice Age?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
http://www.iceagenow.com/index.htm

I'm sure just about everyone on this board is pulling for this website to be correct.

Powdr
post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr View Post
http://www.iceagenow.com/index.htm

I'm sure just about everyone on this board is pulling for this website to be correct.

Powdr
SHEET! Dramatic temeprature swings in the Northeast. That sucks man. That happened last winter. We would get dumped with 18" of fresh and melt the next day. Though I wwas all over it before it melted it never got to build up. I am praying for tons of snow this winter. If not I will be relocating and joing you in the Wasatch Powdr.

Maybe I can get me a few wifes out there in Utah instead of just one, LOL. Cause I surely won't be attending church
post #3 of 27
hey, not to be a political kiiljoy, but i've read that this global warming stuff has created more ice pack, more snow storms and higher snow levels in the majority of antartica and some of iceland. tahoe didnt fare too bad last season either, once it got going.
it seems its taking the good with the bad, you get more snow storms; but the snow doesnt hang around as long.
post #4 of 27
well, ask the Innuit if they are suffering because of climate change. Or those living near the Sahara.

Look to the extremes to see the changes taking place there. You might not see much where you are yet.
post #5 of 27
actually skicougar, there have been many studies showing that the ice packs in the polar regions have been shrinking more and more each year, have been regenerating less in the winters, and there are fears that the Greenland ice shelf is sliding ever faster into the sea, possibly towards a catastrophic tipping point that would mean a sea level increase in several meters. remember that Antarctica lost a Rhode Island size piece of it's ice pack a few years back. the nasa photos were on the cover of the NY Times.

Here are a couple of articles I saw today...a bit less rosy outlook here:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0829-02.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0827-03.htm
post #6 of 27
jeez, seems like a relevant topic that most people who ski (or don't for that matter) would care about - regardless of the source from which the discussion sprang.
why relegate it to the bottom of the forum???:
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead View Post
jeez, seems like a relevant topic that most people who ski (or don't for that matter) would care about - regardless of the source from which the discussion sprang.
why relegate it to the bottom of the forum???:
To entice people to become supporters. Political discussion/hot topics, of which this is one, belong in the P&HT section. If you don't like it, then pony up the cost of a Vail hamburger. I'm sick of people whining about it.
post #8 of 27
Heh, I don't object to baiting people to support with hot topics in restricted forums, but it is sad that global warming is considered by so many to be a political debate. Thats like saying poetry is a military strategy.
post #9 of 27
What to do about global warming can become a political debate since there are competing choices to be made by polities-or not. Global warming itself is no longer a political debate except among those who believe the Moon landing was staged on a Hollywood backlot.

There are different views as to the likely effects of Global Warming among scientists and others. That seems to be a discussion appropriate here. It's like the El Nino and snowfall speculation threads except on a, ahem, rather larger scale. I can't imagine banishing speculation on this year's snowfall or a possible El Nino to the Lounge because views expressed by NOAA, Farmers Almanac, Accuwether and so forth often tend to differ and even though the 'science' of the Farmers Almanac may be somewhat suspect.
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead View Post
jeez, seems like a relevant topic that most people who ski (or don't for that matter) would care about - regardless of the source from which the discussion sprang.
why relegate it to the bottom of the forum???:
To entice people to become supporters. Political discussion/hot topics, of which this is one, belong in the P&HT section. If you don't like it, then pony up the cost of a Vail hamburger. I'm sick of people whining about it.
If you wish to post topics that are controversial, that is fine. Kick up your $20, and do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
Heh, I don't object to baiting people to support with hot topics in restricted forums, but it is sad that global warming is considered by so many to be a political debate. Thats like saying poetry is a military strategy.
I googled the author of the web site. The web site is basically designed to "hawk" his books. He is the opposite of most scientist in the field (and he is not in that field). At least one of the organizations that support him is heavily into building bombshelters to protect from nuclear war. (Oregon Institute for Science and Medicine - none of the staff are environmental scientist).

Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
considering the referenced web site, and the people that he references, that he is a professor at a church run school, why isn't this in P&HT?
That is what it makes this topic controversial enough to be pursued in the supporters area, not the topic of "global warming." Altho' that topic has got a few people steamed in the supporters area in the past. And that is why I asked the question in the post above.
post #11 of 27
The publishers of the Farmers Almanac may be Republicans (or Democrats or of some other political persuasion.) Does that mean that their pseudoscientific approach to weather forecasting belongs in the Lounge too?

I think that this is taking matters way too far. It seems that the Thread starter's intent was purely whimsical. It matters little that he posted a link to a website that believes, among other things, that undersea volcanos are the cause of rising ocean temperatures.

Appeals to Ull (or Ullr or Oller) for snow, perhaps, also belongs in the Lounge as well since Ull is a Norse deity and there are adherents who still subscribe to that religion though it is hardly considered mainstream these days. The existence of such worshipers can be confirmed by a Google search with links. Religion certainly can be seen as a hot topic though most, I wager, would agree that appeals to Ull here at Epic Skii for a prolific snow season are, in the main, intended to whimsical.
post #12 of 27
it may have started as a whimsical posting, but, as happens with many threads, it went off on a tangent about global warming, itself. that is why I wondered aloud if it should be moved to P&HT.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead View Post
remember that Antarctica lost a Rhode Island size piece of it's ice pack a few years back. the nasa photos were on the cover of the NY Times.
Also remember that the average ice thickness in Antartica is almost 2 miles and the average temp in Antartica is -37C. Don't think we'll have to worry about it melting anytime soon. Also the western Antartic shelf is susceptable to what happened "a few years back" because of geologic features that the ice has to deal with.
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles) View Post
it may have started as a whimsical posting, but, as happens with many threads, it went off on a tangent about global warming, itself. that is why I wondered aloud if it should be moved to P&HT.
I see things a little differently. NOAA predictions have been discussed and debated in the past as have Farmers Almanac prognostications. We do discuss and debate a lot of things in different forums e.g. technique, cap v. vertical sidewall construction and so forth. Often these threads get off tangent and need to be steered back in the original direction. This can and almost always is accomplished without moving these threads into the Lounge. A review of this thread indicates:

1) That the poster's intent was whimsical let's note the ..." "

2) There is some discussion about the global scope and local effects of climate change. This discussion certainly on a less heated (so to speak) level than many of the
discussions in the Skiing Technique or even the Tuning and Maintenance forums.3) Some back and forth discussion on whether this should be considered a "hot" topic and
moved to the Lounge.

As skiers, the subject of this season's expected snow fall is perfectly legitimate for the General Skiing Forum whimsical or otherwise. So too quite frankly are predictions regarding the scope and extent of Global Warming in my estimation, although that discussion maybe more properly the subject of another thread. Choices that communities or nations should make in dealing with the matter may fairly be argued to be a political discussion and perhaps best left for the Lounge e.g."Should CA. prohibit the sale of vehicles that acheive less than 50 mpg?"

In an effort to get the post back to the General Discussion Forum I will try for my part to to steer the matter back to the original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr View Post
http://www.iceagenow.com/index.htm

I'm sure just about everyone on this board is pulling for this website to be correct.

Powdr
Well, that link may contain some weird science but I like the lead off from the Farmers Almanac which predicts:

Frigid temps from the Gulf Coast up the eastern seaboard. Particularly nippy in Montana and parts of Wyoming. However, best of all, very snowy in in the PNW and Southwest.

So what if the Almanac uses a secret formula based on sunspots, the position of the planets and the tidal action of the moon? My principal concern at this point is that since Pluto has been demoted from a planet to a mere Disney character, will that adversely affect the Farmers Almanac predictions? :

Now can this topic be moved back to the General Skiing forum?
post #15 of 27
You go, Lostboy!!

I agree. Just because a topic has political underpinnings, does not mean it should be automatically relegated to the P&HT forum. I think that if a thread has ANY merit to skiing, the ski industry, ski related products (cars for driving to the slopes, ect), that the benefit of the doubt should be given to the skiing side, and the thread left out in public view.

Topics such as eco-terrorism at ski areas, cars for skiing, pollutiing effects of heli-skiing, global warming affecting skiing, etc, should be left open to the public, as they are easily related to skiing and the ski industry.

If all else fails, and you can't make any correlation to the ski industry (i.e. Condi rice is useless beyond words), then sure, throw it in P&HT if it started somewhere else.

I think the original post was blatantly obvious in it's humor and link to skiing, and the thread should be out in the General Skiing forum.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy View Post
I see things a little differently. NOAA predictions have been discussed and debated in the past as have Farmers Almanac prognostications. We discuss and debate a lot of things in different forums e.g. skiing technique, cap v. vertical sidewall construction and so forth.

Often threads get off tangent and need to be steered back to the original direction. This can be almost always be accomplished without moving threads into the Lounge. A review of this thread indicates:

1) That the poster's intent was whimsical. Let's note the ..." "

2) There is some discussion about the global scope and local effects of climate change. This discussion certainly has been on a less heated (so to speak) level than many of the discussions in the Skiing Technique or even the Tuning and Maintenance forums.

3) Some back and forth discussion on whether this should be considered a "hot" topic and moved to the Lounge.

As skiers, the subject of this season's expected snow fall is perfectly legitimate for the General Skiing Forum, whimsical, or otherwise. So too, are predictions regarding the scope and extent of Global Warming although that discussion may be more properly the subject of another thread. Choices that communities or nations should make in dealing with the matter may fairly be argued to be a political discussion and perhaps best left for the Lounge e.g. "Should CA. prohibit the sale of vehicles that achieve less than 50 mpg?"

In an effort to get the post back to the General Discussion Forum I will try for my part to to steer the matter back to the original post:

By Me: "Well, that link may contain some weird science but I like the lead off from the Farmers Almanac which predicts:

Frigid temps from the Gulf Coast up the eastern seaboard. Particularly nippy in Montana and parts of Wyoming. However, best of all, very snowy in in the PNW and Southwest.

So what if the Almanac uses a secret formula based on sunspots, the position of the planets and the tidal action of the moon? My principal concern at this point is that since Pluto has been demoted from a planet to a mere Disney character, will that adversely affect the Farmers Almanac predictions?" :

Now can this topic be moved back to the General Skiing forum?

NOTE: This post is an edited version of my post above. It has been modified for reasons of style and clarity and a bunch of typos.
post #17 of 27
At the request of many supporters, and after consideration by the moderation team, this thread is being returned to the general ski discussion forum. Since the thread puts us in "fear" of a new ice age, this was clearly a topic of great interest to skiers. Please keep the topic on track.

Last weekend after a long hot summer, I noticed the Carson Pass snowfields are large for this time of year. Perhaps another sign of the new ice age.



The same view on the same date in 2003 with my daughter clearly points to the case for a new ice age emerging.

post #18 of 27
Nice photos. Seems to be in line with the Farmers Almanac findings. However, since Pluto has been demoted from a planet to a -well, er simply a dog in Disney films, will that adversely affect the Farmers Almanac predictions and the expected regional snowfall this season?

Last season NOAA predicted an EL Nino year. Instead, we had a La Nina which was great for the PNW. Accuweather, called it right last season for the PNW, anyway. Haven't seen their predictions yet for this year.


If all else fails, there is always recourse to Ull, I suppose. Historical evidence based on place names indicates that he was primarily popular in what is now Sweden.
The Swedish spelling is Ull. Those Norges spell it Ullr. Other Germanic types, Oller and such. With the advent of Telemark the Norwegians seem to have laid claim to the guy like he was their favorite son. Revisionist history at its worse.: ... Anyway, if anyone intends to to appeal to him they should probably at least spell his name right if a favorable response is expected.

Personally, I find observing how bushy squirrel tails are to be the most reliable indicator of the coming Winter. Regrettably, I've only seen Possums lately and those were roadkill. So, for the time being, I guess it's the Farmers Almanac for me.

A big thanks to you and the all of the moderators and others who were instrumental in returning this thread to its original home.
post #19 of 27
Nah. It's the stripe on the wooly bear caterpillars.
post #20 of 27
Well done, Avi Control crew!

Nice pics Cirque. Maybe that's the start of a new glacier forming? (one can hope)
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead
jeez, seems like a relevant topic that most people who ski (or don't for that matter) would care about - regardless of the source from which the discussion sprang.
why relegate it to the bottom of the forum???:


To entice people to become supporters. Political discussion/hot topics, of which this is one, belong in the P&HT section. If you don't like it, then pony up the cost of a Vail hamburger. I'm sick of people whining about it.
by the way double diamond, i wasn't whining...it just seems like there's a hair trigger to micro-moderate here. the discussion hardly seemed to be getting heated in a way that might justify hiding it from view...weather is at the heart of what we all love to do here. That said, at least you're honest about why certain interesting threads may get hidden...
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead View Post
...double diamond, i wasn't whining...it just seems like there's a hair trigger to micro-moderate here...That said, at least you're honest about why certain interesting threads may get hidden...
threads aren't hidden at the bottom of the screen. All you have to do is pony up $20 a year and you can see and post to your heart's content.
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
Wow. For a purely whimsical (yes, that was the intent) post, I can't believe the reaction this got. Awesome.

Powdr

PS: I thought it was funny because I remember discussions in grade school ('70s) were we talked about the impending ice age. I was scared that my parent's house along the beaches of SoCal would be covered in snow. I even remember thinking that I could put up a rope tow in my back yard once that happened.
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead
...double diamond, i wasn't whining...it just seems like there's a hair trigger to micro-moderate here...That said, at least you're honest about why certain interesting threads may get hidden...
originally posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
threads aren't hidden at the bottom of the screen. All you have to do is pony up $20 a year and you can see and post to your heart's content.
__________________
correction: hidden from most of the people here...
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by evansilver View Post
Nah. It's the stripe on the wooly bear caterpillars.
In Colorado it is the height of the skunk cabbage. LewBob
post #26 of 27
Here`s what I see in Alaska. The glaciers at lower elevations are smaller than they`ve ever been in recent history. Also there is more exposed blue ice during the summer months. There seems to be more rain and heavier powder at sub-1000 feet all winter the past few seasons. My friends who work on the North Slope near the Arctic Ocean report more open water/less sea ice in places not having this phenomenom before.

These trends appear to be continuing. Someday there will be cruise ships docking in Barrow, which will be great for our sacred economy.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckethead
by the way double diamond, i wasn't whining...it just seems like there's a hair trigger to micro-moderate here. the discussion hardly seemed to be getting heated in a way that might justify hiding it from view...weather is at the heart of what we all love to do here. That said, at least you're honest about why certain interesting threads may get hidden...

Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
threads aren't hidden at the bottom of the screen. All you have to do is pony up $20 a year and you can see and post to your heart's content.
correction: hidden from most of the people here...
correction: only hidden from cheapstakes!!!
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