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Bad habits? - Page 5

post #121 of 140
Thread Starter 
What is this "AB-stem" that I've read some people trying to eliminate from their skiing? What are some possible causes of it, and how are they elliminating it?
post #122 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
If we are to espouse, unilaterally and without argument, an antiquated technique,
Then it follows that we should espouse the technology of the day which
created the need for such technique.

Thank You

Hem
Agreed, Lace up some leather boots, slap on some old skis and go skiing for the day. The experience will do so much for your skiing. I must say that getting off the new toys every once in a while is a good thing.
Additionally, it will help you understand habitual movement patterns in your skiing.
JASP
post #123 of 140
Ghost,
An ab stem is a maneuver that goes way back. The most striking characteristic is the dispacement of the downhill tail either by sliding or stepping. Way back when, it was not a bad habit, only a way to create an edge change.
However, if the tail displacement is unintentional, the cause is usually poor balancing skills. Which could happen for a variety of reasons.
post #124 of 140
Just Another Ski Pro Epic Raconteur: ( J*A*S*P*E*R):

Pole planting was the order of the day before higher, firmer boots lent us all the support which we used to look to poles for.
A day spent on prewar to 1960s equipment serves as a remider of the need for poles at that time.
A day spent on tele equipment sans poles serves my statement even more accurately.
Modern, supportive boots and shorter, aggressively sidecut skis allow for more sparing use of old technique and more pursuit of pure flow.

Thank You

Hem
post #125 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
What is this "AB-stem" that I've read some people trying to eliminate from their skiing? What are some possible causes of it, and how are they elliminating it?
Let me know if you'd like the various system/era definitions of the abstem.
It came about as a response to equipment advances, and it is actually fun to execute on 21st century equipment as an effective drill.

Hem
post #126 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

If any of you have the old World Cup Technique book (Olie Larrson) from the late seveties/early eighties they have a great photo montage of Stenmark and Phil Mahre using this maneuver. As well as retraction turns and an explanation of both techniques.

JASP:

I have two copies on my desk as I type this.The original was published in 1978 in Fribourg, Switzerland one year before it's US debut.
James Major and Ollie co-edited it with considerable assitance from some very knowledgeable colleagues.
Georges Joubert, to whom I alluded in an earlier post citing his work with Jean Vuarnet, provided the dedication to our professor at Grenoble.

I domicile my avocational libris and keep more germane/mundane texts in my office.
While i have no scanner at home, and do not websurf from my office, I will prevail upon an intern to scan the montage (Pp. 34-35) you cite, if you'd like a copy.

Hem
post #127 of 140
Thread Starter 
Speaking of poles and early published ski instruction authorities there is an interesting article in SKi buyer's guide on page 56. According to Zdarsky (Lilienf(ss? firefox doesn't seem to have the alt-num keyboard symbols)elder Technik, 1896) the (single) POLE should be dragged behind as a rudder for steering. I seem to recall this being about the only thing that caused a pair of Dynastar slalom Comps to turn one day when I got them up to SG speeds at Tremblant.
post #128 of 140
When the sport of skiing began, it was with one pole.

It also began wth one ski, which bolsters the viewpoint that Snowboarding came first.


Hem
post #129 of 140
Hem, Thanks for the offer! My copy is the 1979 American edition. Other might enjoy seeing some of those pictures so please post them.
Ghost, If you have a chance to see this book, it will answer your question about ab-stemming. There are several examples of an intentional ab-stem (sequential edge changes), and a couple unintentional as well (the tail washing out and causing big balancing problems).
post #130 of 140
I will prevail upon the fine Humanities Div. interns on Wednesday.

This line:

"(the tail washing out and causing big balancing problems)."
caught my eye.
For a tail to wash out, the "big balancing problem" likely preceded it, not vice-versa.
In that era, skiing 'forward' was the technique du jour, and tail wash was pedestrian.

Accurate cause and effect are golden arrows in the quiver of the true diagnostician.


Hem
post #131 of 140
JASP:

It is interesting (more so, visually) to note that 8 years later, Stu Campbell and Max Lundberg's 1986 classic: " 'The Way To Ski'
PSIA The Official Method" features many sequential photo studies
of professionals executing many of the same manuevers we see in Ollie and James' text, yet with less emphasis on the plant, and more on the technique du jour: "anticipation". (takes one back twenty years)

Carol LeVine (An exceptionally talented "Baldy" D-teamer of days past) demonstrates an smoothly-executed short-radius turns with more fluid planting, and Jerry Warren a seminal "cross-over" shortswing, respectively "Milestone" #9.

While this text utilized period D-Teamers as models as opposed to world cup racers, it provided much more pronounced (obviously, by definition)movement demonstrations and glorious B&W clarity.

Pick up a copy if you haven't one already.


Hem
post #132 of 140
I dropped this text off with the interns, also.

They are swamped, I hope to have a scan for you soon.

Hem
post #133 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
Ghost,
An ab stem is a maneuver that goes way back. The most striking characteristic is the dispacement of the downhill tail either by sliding or stepping. Way back when, it was not a bad habit, only a way to create an edge change.
However, if the tail displacement is unintentional, the cause is usually poor balancing skills. Which could happen for a variety of reasons.
One being inability to balance on the uphill edge of the uphill ski, necessitating an inside-to-inside edge transition -- abstem to stem.
post #134 of 140
Another reason is the skier is unable to "turn the feet", so the skier steps from inside edge to inside edge. The increased pressure on the downhill ski makes the ab-stem and as the skier turns only the new outside ski to edge, you get ab-stem to stem again.

Inability to "turn the feet" can certainly mean lack of balance, or simply unfamiliarity with pivotting and it's movements.

Bow-ties and pivot slips are a real good idea.
post #135 of 140
Hem,
When the outside tail washes out unexpectedly just standing up becomes a challenge. Thoerni's remarkable recovery on pg 154-5 was the "big balance problem" I was talking about. Cindi Nelson's slight stem on pgs. 120-1 is probably intentional and does not produce the same results.

E,
Balance is certainly the key. Release moves while out of balance require maneuvers like the ab-stem/rotary push-off.
post #136 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
Hem,
When the outside tail washes out unexpectedly just standing up becomes a challenge.
This does not change the precedence of imbalance leading to the washout, it merely indicates amplification of imbalance pursuant to washout.


hem
post #137 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemingway View Post
This does not change the precedence of imbalance leading to the washout, it merely indicates amplification of imbalance pursuant to washout.


hem
That's a given, Hem.
post #138 of 140
If it is, in fact, a given, why refer to tail wash as causing balancing problems?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
(the tail washing out and causing big balancing problems).

I am sure this is a case of typing faster than thinking, of which I am more guilty more than I like to admit.




Where will you be instructing this season?

Hem
post #139 of 140
O.K. Causing even bigger balance problems would be more correct. The difference between the two examples was my greater point though. One is an intentional tail displacement and does not result in the severe balance problems we see in the other example.

My home mountain is Snowmass. What's yours?
post #140 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
O.K. Causing even bigger balance problems would be more correct. The difference between the two examples was my greater point though. One is an intentional tail displacement and does not result in the severe balance problems we see in the other example.

My home mountain is Snowmass. What's yours?

Snowmass is spectacular.

My home mountain is Baldy at Sun.

I worked at Sugar Loaf on and off many years ago, then several other Eastern resorts while attending Columbia.

I spent many winters teaching in Switzerland, while I attended Grenoble as a younger man.

I return each season during Winter recess to teach and clinic at Zermatt.

I would enjoy an opportunity to visit with you at Snowmass some day.

The American West is my birthplace, and knows no equal

Thank You

Hem
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