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buyer's guide gripe - women's boots!

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Got both Ski and Skiing buyer's guides same day. Big gripe for the ladies if you're in the "front side, hard snow, expert" category!!

I noticed that Ski mag shows boot models with both men's and their matching women's version mentioned in the model name. Top performance expert boots included.

Skiing mag however, shows only the men's version, with no mention that a women's model even exists for that boot. Under women's it lists simply one "high performance women's" boot per brand, which is one level lower than those reviewed in Ski. No mention of any of the top level boots in the women's category here. : One step backward in time?

Sounds like a big fat letter to the editor to me. Girls go get your Ski magazine!
post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by marta View Post
Got both Ski and Skiing buyer's guides same day. Big gripe for the ladies if you're in the "front side, hard snow, expert" category!!

I noticed that Ski mag shows boot models with both men's and their matching women's version mentioned in the model name. Top performance expert boots included.

Skiing mag however, shows only the men's version, with no mention that a women's model even exists for that boot. Under women's it lists simply one "high performance women's" boot per brand, which is one level lower than those reviewed in Ski. No mention of any of the top level boots in the women's category here. : One step backward in time?

Sounds like a big fat letter to the editor to me. Girls go get your Ski magazine!
Hmmm...I am going out on a limb here, but I read that as saying that [Phil ducking] maybe, woman shouldn't be skiing?[Phil ducking]
post #3 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
Hmmm...I am going out on a limb here, but I read that as saying that [Phil ducking] maybe, woman shouldn't be skiing?[Phil ducking]
Hmmmm
Phil didn't duck fast enough.
He just got snow spray from Trekchick in his face!
post #4 of 27
Marta, in all seriousness.
I agree.
There is little information for women skiers unless you're a racer or a beginner.
Much past intermediate on piste, or getting into back country, you may as well consult a forum. The guides just don't offer the input from women in our category.
post #5 of 27
I actually have a problem with boot reviews in general. Just because you are a woman, does not mean you should be looking at only women's boots. That said: just because you are a man does not mean you should be looking at only men's boots. Boot reviews do one thing: they show the buyer what is out there so that you do not have to consult each company separately. A small female skier with narrow lower legs and small feet might be better off in a low volume fit men's boot - or even a junior boot. A heavier woman with wider legs may require a women's boot or a may prefer a high volume men's boot. Yes, women's boots are deisgned with an average women's leg in mind but women's body types are just (if not more) variable than men's. Limiting your search/scope to only women's boots will only hinder the fit you might be able to get by trying several different boots (men's, women's, and junior). I have been around a lot of female racers and watched them be fit for boots. Their selections have ranged from men's race boots, to women's carver models, to junior race boots - all depending on the physique of the girl who was being fit. Women's boots may be a good place to start, but do not limit yourself to that arena.
Later
GREG
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
HeluvaSkier - absolutely right. Don't rely on the magazines much. They're just a starting point. It's just too bad that most folks, don't have access to the knowledge we do here. Partly my gripe is the continued perception that women are happy as blue cruisers or "aspiring experts". We all know that women are just as capable as the guys. We all know that the tools exist to get us there, but unfortunately the mags don't consistently point that out. I like to hunt down shops that have a more expanded range, adult, junior, race, so I can maximize the assortment I'm trying. I fall into the hard to fit range, I need the smallest size made, which sometimes is not small enough even in juniors, I'm lightweight, but a strong skiier.
post #7 of 27
My thoughts are that magazine/publication reviews would be better is they were classified by Volume, Fit, and Flex... Thats just my opinion though. A boot is a boot - I don't care how it is labeled or what gender it is supposed to be for. If it fits it fits.

Marta, your situation reminds me of a 100lb female racer I had on my ski team for a few years. She ended up with the Nordica Dobermann WC 80 junior boot I think (might have been the 100). She bought it in just about the smallest size made too... Interestingly, she was one of the fastest girls in our conference for several seasons. The race boots tend to run small enough and have low enough volume that they fit small, high level female skiers very well. The nice part is that they are designed for high level skiing, and are often higher level boots than you can get in even the best women specific model boots out there.

Later

GREG
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by marta View Post
Partly my gripe is the continued perception that women are happy as blue cruisers or "aspiring experts". We all know that women are just as capable as the guys. We all know that the tools exist to get us there, but unfortunately the mags don't consistently point that out.
Marta, you hit the nail on the head!
We should forever and here after call the women in that group....Epic Ladies.
We are the women who want reviews on top quality equipment for the level of skiing that is advanced without wanting to become an olympian. Something that will
share the knowledge of equipment that will make the Epic Lady say WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
You got it!

Like minds - Dobermann 80's are already on my list... I'm no racer, but I want a boot that will let me rail my skis on edge on hardpack, while yelling WHOOOOO HOOOOOO! like trekchick says Oh, and a boot with a shrink-wrap fit. But also a boot that I can wear for 8+ hrs straight. Am I asking too much?
post #10 of 27
Not asking too much. it's what we all want. I also have Dobies on my hit list after having tried on just about every other dang boot made. May be different in the east, but i found out the hard way last year that you have to go get them in the fall before the race kids get them all. There were none available anywhere near me last year after december. I plan to shop in September.
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom View Post
Not asking too much. it's what we all want. I also have Dobies on my hit list after having tried on just about every other dang boot made. May be different in the east, but i found out the hard way last year that you have to go get them in the fall before the race kids get them all. There were none available anywhere near me last year after december. I plan to shop in September.
It's not to much different for the Dobies in the east actually. The models that you would be looking at are very hard to come by. Shops that carry the WC 150 will likely have a decent selection year round because they are a highly sought after boot. The lower end and junior models are less requested, and therefore shops only order enough for the race crowd and then sell regular consumer model boots. In my opinion the WC last is one of the best out there for a low volume fit that can be adapted to nearly any foot. It is too bad that the trends are just now starting to come back from the comfortable, albeit, useless boots, and gettng back into real performance boots...

I don't know what sizes you both need, but you might have luck with the Pro last as well (Nordica makes it in a 110, 130, and the Hot Rod). The Hot Rod is softer (although labeled 130) because of the transparent red plastic that is used. Both the WC and Pro lasts are deisgned to be ground, molded, and cut to get the right fit. The lowest size however, might be a 22 or 23...

Later

GREG
post #12 of 27

Never let a buyers guide get you down

I buy em and love all the pix and laugh at the blurbs (my all time favorite "leaves scorched trails in the snow") While the differences in women's boots are real and significant the approach should be the same for either sex. That said, Boot reviews are by nature, and I don't want to seem harsh, WORTHLESS DRIVEL!!! It sounds like you're aware of your needs so trust your instinct, find a good selection and find a bootfitter with solid orthotic experience who knows his way around a shop. btw, Manufacturers websites have all the models up by now.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by marta View Post
You got it!

.......while yelling WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!
........ Am I asking too much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom View Post
Not asking too much. it's what we all want. ....................
I plan to shop in September.
When we are done shopping for our Epic Ladies appropriate gear, lets invite our favorite Gear Whore to the hill and see if we can make him duck a bit more

Eh phil?
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
When we are done shopping for our Epic Ladies appropriate gear, lets invite our favorite Gear Whore to the hill and see if we can make him duck a bit more

Eh phil?
Yeah, I hear Fox skis a ladies Burnin Luv.:
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
My thoughts are that magazine/publication reviews would be better is they were classified by Volume, Fit, and Flex... Thats just my opinion though. A boot is a boot - I don't care how it is labeled or what gender it is supposed to be for. If it fits it fits...

Later

GREG
There was a time when the magazines actually did flex testing under different loads and had stats on forward lean angles, bootboard ramp angles etc., and explained their significance. With boots, objective information seems more much relevant than the subjective tester's impressions especially when so little is known about what was done to customize a boot, if anything, for each individual tester. They could make room for this kind of info by cutting out the column inches spent talking about new buckle systems.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy View Post
..They could make room for this kind of info by cutting out the column inches spent talking about new buckle systems.
Maybe I was a little harsh at least on SKIING in the sense that their description of boot characteristics was pretty good though minus the technical info that would be useful. SKI less so. They have four full pages with pictures devoted to explaining the definitions of a liner, buckles etc.:

Both magazines (and the industry itself) are just starting to catch on to the importance of the women's market. Other sports figured that out some time ago.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy View Post
Both magazines (and the industry itself) are just starting to catch on to the importance of the women's market. Other sports figured that out some time ago.
Companies like Nike have been on the forefront of developing products for women. Surprisingly though, sports that require expensive (to produce) equipment seem to just now be catching up to the needs of female athletes. I am starting to do a lot of research on road bikes, and it is surprising to see that most women specific designs for frames and saddles have emerged in the last few years. While the biking industry may have been ahead of the skiing industry, i do not think that they are extremely far ahead. Part of what may be contributing to this is lowering manufacturing costs and increasing the ability to diversify your products while using the same production line equipment and facilities.

Later

GREG
post #18 of 27
It would seem from reading the descriptions of various women's skis and boots (the Fischer Web site with the reccomended levels for each ski comes to mind) that there are no Expert Women, and that women do not ski fast, nor do they demand high performance or racing-level performance from their equipment. I've met one or two women who could set them straight on that score.
post #19 of 27
The bad news is: Nordica does not make the Dobermann WC 100 anymore. I could not believe it when i head this news. A friend of mine was looking at this boot. Luckly for her, Nordica makes a Dobermann Pro 100 (which replaces the WC 100) and her feet are not exactly narrow. The Pro 100 is, IMO, the successor to the WC 100 because it has a lower cuff than the Pro 110, just like the WC 100 did. Of course, it has the Pro liner but the lower WC 100 liner is available for order.

Regarding the Dobermann Team boots, IMO it would be better to avoid them. They are made for jr. They are not made in the same plastic. Did you know this? The Pro 100 is made in Polyether Extra Soft (just like the Pro 110). The jr. boots are made in Polyurethane. I believe the Polyurethane is softer (for jr. skiers) and less responsive than the Polyether X-tra Soft. I seriously doubt the Team boots will offer the performance of the Pro 100.

Btw, Tecnica claims a size 3.5 US (21.5 Mondo : ) is available for '07. I believe they offer the Diablo Race Pro 90 for women. Make sure you like the stance angles, though...

Jamie
post #20 of 27
I went in to shop for some new boots this year and spent an hour with the sales guy trying on every boot in my size. I'm about 5'2" 130 and have had 2 full seasons in a row, after an 8 yr break. I ski mostly black and out in the trees. Most of the women's boots I tried on felt too roomy. Finally the sales guy pulled out the Dobermann Team 70s. They fit the best out of all the boots I tried out. He mentioned that Technica had a junior race boot that might work for me too, I believe the Diablo Race Pro 90, but they didn't have it in my size to try on. My question would be: Should I try the Team 70? I want to get more aggresive this year, will these boots help me or hinder me?
post #21 of 27
Frichi29 welcome to EpicSki,
If the flex and fit feel right for you then yes. I know a lot of girls skiing in a similar boot to that one. The Diablo has a similar, but slightly more roomy, fit and of course slightly more forward lean. It may not hurt to try both and do a comparison - if that is possible. The team 70 seems like you could run into the problem that it is not enough boot for your weight. The girl on my team who I had in that boot was smaller than you are, albeit, probably more aggressive - so I suppose it could be a trade off.
Later
GREG
post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
More roomy is what I'm afraid of, not that I have a narrow foot, mine seems average. I currently have Nordica W-8's - packed out bedroom slippers, cant stuff anymore inside them to dial them closer, they fit as best as they can, and still get a lot of foot movement. Lateral support and fwd lean is great, but overall, I've "outgrown" them. They're a 22.5, I wear a street 6.5-7, I'm 115lbs, 4'11".
post #23 of 27
Marta, the boot you are in is VERY wide. My girlfriend uses that boot and is starting to run into the same problem. She and I are thinking that new boots/footbeds/alignment might be in store for her this year... although we are not particularly sure what models as of yet. I want to say that the last for the W8 is 102mm or 104mm. For a woman your size and build that is HUGE... but alas women's boots seem to be built for comfort over performance. This is great for women entering the sport, but for those women who are already the sport it really raises some problems - as we have discussed.

No race oriented boot that you are going to try is going to have a last width larger than the W-8. Most race boots are between 94mm and 100mm - nearly all being less than 100mm. For the Hot Rod and Dobie Pro series you're going to be looking at a 98mm last width (or less depending on size). I believe that all shells go down the a size that would fit you... It might be worth a shot though. If you cannot fit into a boot that has a 98mm last, then you probably know for sure you need to look at a junior race boot.

Last resort: Buy a Dobie WC 150 and have your boot fitter cut it until it works. That boot can be softened down to about the flex of the WC 100 if your boot fitter knows what he/she is doing.

Later

GREG
post #24 of 27

if you are looking for the Doberman WC 100...

try peak performance

http://www.peakskishop.com/product_i...products_id=47
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
Wide? Yah - no kidding! You wouldn't believe all the mods I've crammed into there over 4 years. They got me to where I am today though, and their job is done.
post #26 of 27
lange makes a ladies and jr boot (or did last year) with a 265mm boot sole, one of the smallest boots that I have ever found. Fit much smaller then a 22 / 265 salomon..
post #27 of 27
Thread Starter 

Double Gripe! Finding a hi-perf boot to even try on..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
It would seem from reading the descriptions of various women's skis and boots (the Fischer Web site with the reccomended levels for each ski comes to mind) that there are no Expert Women, and that women do not ski fast, nor do they demand high performance or racing-level performance from their equipment. I've met one or two women who could set them straight on that score.
True!! Seems that most stores in NJ area don't even stock most high-performance women's boots. Can it possibly be true that women don't want a serious boot, not enough to warrant stocking them around here? When I called some shops to ask about Salomon's Scarlet for example, one shop even said to me on the phone, "well if you think you could flex that, then all the world to you.."

Working with Heinos, as they are patient in ordering boots for me to "try", and patient in listening, really listening, to what I desire in a fit. So far I've been able to flex whatever they throw my way. Next up Lange wc120....
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