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Observation about Bro's

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
With all the raves these skis get both here and on TGR, I can't help but weigh in with an observation I've had...

Here in Jackson Hole (the actual, if not figurative, home of TGR), I see almost no pairs of Bro's on the feet of local skiers. I've asked a couple of guys (I've never seen a woman with a pair - would they be Sis's???) who were skiing them how they liked 'em and have received warm but not what I would call glowing reviews.

You can't demo them, so I've never had a pair on my feet. Therefore I basically have no idea what I'm talking about. I just find it odd that there's only about four pairs of them that I see here in JH.

It seems like they're very popular with the California contingent.

To those of you who are skiing them... what is it about them that you like so much?
post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
With all the raves these skis get both here and on TGR, I can't help but weigh in with an observation I've had...

Here in Jackson Hole (the actual, if not figurative, home of TGR), I see almost no pairs of Bro's on the feet of local skiers. I've asked a couple of guys (I've never seen a woman with a pair - would they be Sis's???) who were skiing them how they liked 'em and have received warm but not what I would call glowing reviews.

You can't demo them, so I've never had a pair on my feet. Therefore I basically have no idea what I'm talking about. I just find it odd that there's only about four pairs of them that I see here in JH.

It seems like they're very popular with the California contingent.

To those of you who are skiing them... what is it about them that you like so much?
I haven't skied them. The thing is that they are based off of the interweb, so basically everyone who buys them reads either this, TGR, ttips, or some other kind of forum. So there are bound to be lots of reviews on it comparatively. You could probably get a demo from a JH local or from someone else when you take a trip if you just ask around...
post #3 of 21
Hey Bob; as of last spring I think there around 300? or less pairs on snow world wide. This is a completely new model for designing and selling skis.

This year it looks like they will sell every ski they make bought and paid for before the wood hits the press. They will introduce yet another model this winter.

Of course two or three people take delivery and hate the product the whole thing will fall like a house of cards.

So for me, I own 188 Soft’s set up with Free Rides, I skied them (Inbounds) about 60 days this past winter (GREAT SKI)!

I also got to Demo the 179's on a powder day, REALLY FUN SKI and light as a feather. So The Bro model is coming on very strong with the back country crowd.

And then there is this intangible where your input about the ski is taken seriously. You feel like you are part of something.

And last but not least, buy the skis and you hate them? They are slightly defective? These guy working on a shoe string MAKE IT RI|GHT without blinking an eye.

Are these the BADDEST BESTEST SKIS every made? NO
Are they a great ski for a good value? HELL YES! Support the little guy
Join the club. You know you want some.
post #4 of 21
Bob, keep in mind that while TGR is based out of JH, they have no connection with the bro model which is produced in Tahoe by PMGear.

You can indeed demo them, Sluff Vertigo/twoplankers/Tyrone Shoelaces are very open with letting you take skis out and I'm sure that any bro owners would gladly let you take theirs for a run or two.
post #5 of 21
Very reasonably priced. i believe this is my next purchase.
MTT tried to counsel me on this earlier and I went a differant direction .
So many are so pleased with these skis it really bears some investigating.
post #6 of 21
Where can they be bought?
post #7 of 21
www.pmgearusa.com
new site will be up soon, old one is well... outdated.

as far as demo'ing... no need to lay down cash at a shop, just call up the boys at pmgear...
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...0&postcount=14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splat
Jed, we'll be skiing Hood within a month with all the models.
The invite to show up and ski them all is wide open.
GAME FUKKIN ON!!!!!!!!!!!
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT View Post

And then there is this intangible where your input about the ski is taken seriously. You feel like you are part of something.

...

Are these the BADDEST BESTEST SKIS every made? NO
Are they a great ski for a good value? HELL YES! Support the little guy
Join the club. You know you want some.

Okay.

What is your input to the PM Gear guys. What is it about the skis that make them so much more fun than the dozens of other skis on the market?

Also, how much do they cost? I hate to admit it, but I have no idea.

Since I haven't spent more than $400 on a new pair of skis ever in my life, are they cheaper than that?
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Okay.

What is your input to the PM Gear guys. What is it about the skis that make them so much more fun than the dozens of other skis on the market?

Also, how much do they cost? I hate to admit it, but I have no idea.

Since I haven't spent more than $400 on a new pair of skis ever in my life, are they cheaper than that?
This next run is going to cost 649$ and they will not go on sale. The only way to get them cheaper is to buy used,(Rare) or a lest than perfect pair.

So retail is what 1,000$ leftovers sell for in the spring.

To your first question, I was one of many voices who gave feedback to to splat. Did PM gear change the ski based on my input? I don't I don't know. The tips will be turned up more this year and there will be less camber.

That does not mean that the skis I have are not great but the next batch will be just that much better.
post #10 of 21
Hey guys, I was directed via PM to check out this thread and requested to comment. And full disclosure for some of you who may not know -- I'm one of the co-founders of PMGear, but I'll try to be as objective as possible in answering any questions.

MTT already covered the one question I could answer most objectively....that is, how much will they cost this year? The $649 price he quoted is most likely what we will be charging this year. There is a chance that they will be $639, but the final price will be up on our new website (www.pmgearusa.com, or very soon just www.pmgear.com) which *should* be going live sometime in September.

Last year we charged $599 and the primary reasons for the cost increase are: 1) This year we finally moved our manufacturing in-house. The past 2 seasons we had to rely on 3rd party manufacturers, but now that we have a little more overhead to worry about with our own pressing equipment, we needed to bump the price up a bit. and 2) This year this skis will come finished. This was a HUGE problem for us last year as the manufacturer we used was shipping the skis out "raw" i.e. bases weren't completely flat in many cases which meant our customers had to spend some extra $$$ to get them ground flat. With our own stone grinders and such this year we'll be spending a bit more of our time finishing the skis before they go out and have a closer eye on QC since we're making & shipping the skis out ourselves now.

Bob -- I don't really want to directly answer your question as to what people like about them because I don't want this to sound like a sales pitch from a biased stakeholder. But I think the reason you haven't see to many in Jackson is that honestly, I think we only sold a handful of skis at the most to the Jackson area. We're based in the Tahoe / Reno area and most of our customers are here, UT, and Colorado. As MTT said earlier, in the past 2 seasons we may have pressed 300 skis max...so we're dealing with super small production runs.

At this time, we've purchased enough materials for approx 400 skis (divided amongst our current 188 and 179 Bro Models) and also materials for new prototypes (fatter skis....a 192 that will be about 143-114-132 and a fatter 179 that will be of similar dimensions as well). We have just one full-time employee who gets paid basically nothing, and the rest of us involved with the company still have our regular full-time jobs so its truly a labor of love and a dream for all of us, and this 400 skis I think might be our limit until we can make some changes on that front. We'll have to see....

I'd be happy to go on more about us....but again, I don't want to this come off as a sales pitch. However, if you would like more info about how we started, our business model (which is going to be more than just skis), and what we're trying to accomplish overall I'd be happy to if there were an interest and if folks here thought it would be appropriate.

Also -- I can always be reached at ron AT pmgearusa DOT com (no, my real name is not Tyrone )

Oh and yes, to expand a little further upon what MTT said in a post above. We're hyper sensitive to what our customers say about our skis. We obviously LOVE to hear when people like them....nothing makes me happier than hearing how something that we produced brought smiles to someone on the mountain....but I'm (we're) always more interested in hearing constructive criticism. We absolutely need to....and examples of this are reducing the camber in our skis this year from last (which we received a LOT of criticism on ) and as mentioned above, also putting a better finish on the skis before they go out the door (of which we probably received a LOT more criticism on )

Thanks again....I hope I was at least a little helpful w/o sounding too much like an advertisement.

Cheers -
Ron
post #11 of 21
Ty-ron-e,

Great post and no it didn't come off as being too much of a sales pitch.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
Hey guys, I was directed via PM to check out this thread and requested to comment. And full disclosure for some of you who may not know -- I'm one of the co-founders of PMGear, but I'll try to be as objective as possible in answering any questions.

MTT already covered the one question I could answer most objectively....that is, how much will they cost this year? The $649 price he quoted is most likely what we will be charging this year. There is a chance that they will be $639, but the final price will be up on our new website (www.pmgearusa.com, or very soon just www.pmgear.com) which *should* be going live sometime in September.

Last year we charged $599 and the primary reasons for the cost increase are: 1) This year we finally moved our manufacturing in-house. The past 2 seasons we had to rely on 3rd party manufacturers, but now that we have a little more overhead to worry about with our own pressing equipment, we needed to bump the price up a bit. and 2) This year this skis will come finished. This was a HUGE problem for us last year as the manufacturer we used was shipping the skis out "raw" i.e. bases weren't completely flat in many cases which meant our customers had to spend some extra $$$ to get them ground flat. With our own stone grinders and such this year we'll be spending a bit more of our time finishing the skis before they go out and have a closer eye on QC since we're making & shipping the skis out ourselves now.

Bob -- I don't really want to directly answer your question as to what people like about them because I don't want this to sound like a sales pitch from a biased stakeholder. But I think the reason you haven't see to many in Jackson is that honestly, I think we only sold a handful of skis at the most to the Jackson area. We're based in the Tahoe / Reno area and most of our customers are here, UT, and Colorado. As MTT said earlier, in the past 2 seasons we may have pressed 300 skis max...so we're dealing with super small production runs.

At this time, we've purchased enough materials for approx 400 skis (divided amongst our current 188 and 179 Bro Models) and also materials for new prototypes (fatter skis....a 192 that will be about 143-114-132 and a fatter 179 that will be of similar dimensions as well). We have just one full-time employee who gets paid basically nothing, and the rest of us involved with the company still have our regular full-time jobs so its truly a labor of love and a dream for all of us, and this 400 skis I think might be our limit until we can make some changes on that front. We'll have to see....

I'd be happy to go on more about us....but again, I don't want to this come off as a sales pitch. However, if you would like more info about how we started, our business model (which is going to be more than just skis), and what we're trying to accomplish overall I'd be happy to if there were an interest and if folks here thought it would be appropriate.

Also -- I can always be reached at ron AT pmgearusa DOT com (no, my real name is not Tyrone )

Oh and yes, to expand a little further upon what MTT said in a post above. We're hyper sensitive to what our customers say about our skis. We obviously LOVE to hear when people like them....nothing makes me happier than hearing how something that we produced brought smiles to someone on the mountain....but I'm (we're) always more interested in hearing constructive criticism. We absolutely need to....and examples of this are reducing the camber in our skis this year from last (which we received a LOT of criticism on ) and as mentioned above, also putting a better finish on the skis before they go out the door (of which we probably received a LOT more criticism on )

Thanks again....I hope I was at least a little helpful w/o sounding too much like an advertisement.

Cheers -
Ron
Hey, Ron/Tyronne (I love that handle).

Thanks for your comments. Don't worry at all about sounding like a "sales pitch". You're involved with the company and it sounds like you're justifiably proud of your product. I know for certain that you've got a lot of very happy customers.

I *do* wish I could try a pair somewhere. There's a slight chance that I'll make it to the Gathering in Tahoe this winter. If I do, maybe I could get on a pair. Better yet, why don't you and your partners make a road trip to JH this season and bring some demo pairs along? I can show you lots of things to jump off of - while I go around and take photos from below. :

Anyway, good luck with PM Gear. Historically, it's been really tough for new ski companies to make a go of things in the US, but it seems like you've hit a sweet spot in the market. I hope you prosper. (But not at the expense of Head - I'm a Head rep here at JH, so don't cut into MY market, okay? )
post #13 of 21
Thanks for dropping into this thread, Tyrone...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
I'd be happy to go on more about us....but again, I don't want to this come off as a sales pitch. However, if you would like more info about how we started, our business model (which is going to be more than just skis), and what we're trying to accomplish overall I'd be happy to if there were an interest and if folks here thought it would be appropriate.
I think that many of us would find this very interesting, so feel free to expand upon it. Part of what makes the Bros unique is how they came to be and what the company is about.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Hey, Ron/Tyronne (I love that handle).

Thanks for your comments. Don't worry at all about sounding like a "sales pitch". You're involved with the company and it sounds like you're justifiably proud of your product. I know for certain that you've got a lot of very happy customers.

I *do* wish I could try a pair somewhere. There's a slight chance that I'll make it to the Gathering in Tahoe this winter. If I do, maybe I could get on a pair. Better yet, why don't you and your partners make a road trip to JH this season and bring some demo pairs along? I can show you lots of things to jump off of - while I go around and take photos from below. :

Anyway, good luck with PM Gear. Historically, it's been really tough for new ski companies to make a go of things in the US, but it seems like you've hit a sweet spot in the market. I hope you prosper. (But not at the expense of Head - I'm a Head rep here at JH, so don't cut into MY market, okay? )
Hey Bob -- I'd be happy to try and make some turns with you this winter. Whether it be at Jackson (which I've never been too...I know, for shame...) or if you make it out to the Tahoe area. If for some reason, I can't bring demos, you can possibly just try my own skis out.

And I didn't know that you were a rep for Head....I love Head skis. The Supermojo is a great ski.

And thanks as well for the well-wishes. The odds are indeed stacked against us, but we may have found a small niche as you say and we know our limits of what we can and can't do at this time. We're pleasantly surprised that we're even still alive and kicking at this point and that we've begun to assemble our own mnfg equipment and actually own some tangible assets now. We get a lot of requests to really expand our quiver of skis to like 5 or 6 different models...but that would kill us at this point. We're really focused on a slow methodical growth, working the kinks out as we go, learning, and having fun.

SSH - Thanks. I'll try to write a better summary about us, our history, etc. in the very near future. Perhaps later today or this evening. However right now, that darn pesky real job I mentioned above is calling for my attention. I'll be back....
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
I can show you lots of things to jump off of - while I go around and take photos from below. :
I hope everyone appreciates the subtle, dry humour in that.

I didn't realize the number of skis out there is so small. It surprises me as I personally know two people in the area I could call if I wanted to take them for a spin, (I haven't). I also saw another pair by chance at Castle Mtn last year (maybe the year prior). To be honest I don't think they're the ski for me and likely not for you either Bob from the little I know. I should still get out on a pair but I also have other affiliations that make it a moot point.

In short I think they do represent good value and do what they are designed to do very well. A lot of it also likely has to do with the exclusivity and buying into 'the story'. Literally a bunch of guys on the internet who hatched an idea and saw it to fruition if not fully realized success. You should check some of the storys of Splat standing over the shoulders of a last minute production facility in Chicoutimi Quebec and pushing to get the late run completed despite plant closures, unions, bomb threats, ruined desserts and propositioning waitresses (many thought all was lost with the last one).

Purchasing them has taken some dillegence, patience and fortitude in the past but a keen handful has been more than willing to do it and continue to be willing. It's like so many things that hit an edge and create some word of mouth hype, it's the desire to be a part of the dream.

At one point I believe there was some lighthearted talk of a woman's skis. HOs and BRAs were two names that the guys seemed to like but the woman ... not so much. Go figure.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7 View Post

Purchasing them has taken some dillegence, patience and fortitude in the past but a keen handful has been more than willing to do it and continue to be willing.

.
Thanks L7...Your quote that I highlighted above is actually a very timely observation. I say this because Splat and I were talking last night and we realized that, finally, this season, we're going to be in a position to have product on-hand prior to orders coming in. Which means...no more pre-ordering and then waiting (and some cases in the past...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...). There are only 2 pieces of the mnfg puzzle that are now out of our hands and that is the milling of the cores and the sidewalls. Once we receive those materials from our mill (which should be soon)....we'll have everything ready start pressing. It's a really good feeling to be be in control of the pressing, finishing, & shipping ourselves finally. (and I'm sure Splat is stoked that he doesn't have to spend nearly another entire winter holed up in a dank hotel in backwoods Quebec overseeing production).

ok...like I said...real job is calling.... As promised, I'll write more later as per SSH's request...
post #17 of 21
Since somewhere around Christmas, my everyday ski has been the 2005/06 188 Soft, with somewhere around 25-30 days between then and July 4th at Mammoth. I'm a 6'1", 205#, fairly aggressive but decidedly non-cliff-hucking skier, getting back into the swing of things last year after skiing less than a week total during the 90s, and getting a couple of weeks each the past couple of seasons. Before the Bros, I was riding 180 Salomon Scream 8 Pilots. This season, I also picked up a pair of used 200 Kastle CarveMachine GS.

I love my Bros, and I've loved them from the first time I tried them.

They rail on hardpack, and I can just barely get the tips to wiggle when I go full mach whatever in a tuck.

But that's not their forte, of course. They float on Sierra snow, at least, like nothing I've tried. (I can't remember all the demos I've done, but it was a fair cross-section of K2 and Salomon, among others.) I wasn't entirely crazy about them the one weekend that Utah pow came to the Sierra, although I think that if I mounted them back slightly, that wouldn't have been an issue. In more usual Sierra conditions, they float perfectly and turn like a charm.

I'm not sure that I can describe them technically. Personally, I think that they have a nice low swing weight, but it's not like I did a lot of side-by-side comparisons.

I'm also very happy that I managed to put aside my testosterone and go for the softs -- they turn just how I want them to, and I've never wanted for stability.

I think It's a good thing that this year's model will come ground, mainly because the shop that mounted and prepped mine went through almost all the ptex on one tail.

Aside from that, the only complaint I've had is topsheet chipping, but bear in mind that I often carry several kids' gear, so my skis probably take more of a beating than most would.
post #18 of 21
I was thinking about getting some Legend 8800's this upcoming season, but the more I find out about PMGear the more I'm thinking about getting some Bro's.

Besides, I think the way Tyrone skis is plenty testament to both the capabilities and quality of the skis.
post #19 of 21
OH.MY.GOD.

I just spent........a very long time......writing a very long post follow-up on SSH's request for more information on our history, business model, etc. etc. It took me so long to write it I had to stop and take care of some other things mid-way through. So now I just finished it, went to post, and I guess because my account was inactive for so long, I had to re-login and I just lost everything I typed up. GRRRRRRRR!!!!

Sorry guys....this will have to wait a little while longer.

memosteve -- wow, thanks for the compliment.
post #20 of 21
Well, to get back to the initial topic what to like about those skis. Got 188 superstiffs and 179 ex-stiffs (next year's softs I think, AT setup) and was as concerned as you before the purchase, Bob.

They're very lightweight which eases up ascents in the BC, have good edgehold for a ski that wide underfoot and can take much abuse which is somewhat important to me. The 179s float really well for a ski that short. So overall very versatile skis which would make it superflous to take along anything else on a road trip. The camber and base issue seemed to be adressed but Tyrone surely is the man to comment on that.

Now that was a sales pitch, PM Gear should compensate me now.

BTW Ty, was nice meeting and sharing some turns with you at the Ghettos last May.
post #21 of 21
All this from someone that grew up skiing the Poconos. "Local boy does good". Proud of ya!
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