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Kids on the cusp

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
My son is 11, 5'4", 100 lb, and a Level 7 maybe 8 skier. He wears a 9.5 men's shoe, so I think we're out of junior boots this year. Help! When we fit him last season, he was on the outer edge of the junior sizes ... we experimented with some women's boots (didn't tell him they were women's, though ), and he couldn't flex them very well. So we went back to the 26 junior Nordica.

This year, I know he's out of junior, and at that foot size, I'm afraid he's almost out of women's sizes, too?? If he had trouble flexing a women's boot last year, well, he's taller but no heavier. Maybe a little bit stronger, but that center of gravity is way up there.

I know we aren't the only family with this issue, since this age is full of kids with adult's feet but children's bodies. Any advice?

Ski advice too? Something all-mountain in a 150 ... he demoed some Volkl Supersport Jrs at the end of last season, and seemed to like them a lot. I'm not so worried about the skis, though.
post #2 of 24
[quote=segbrown;537527]My son is 11, 5'4", 100 lb, and a Level 7 maybe 8 skier. quote]

Im not saying that youre wrong, but i find ti hard to believe that an 11 y/o is a leel 7-8 skier. Now I may be wrong, but an innacurate level judegemnt could lead to an innacurate boot. Just my $ 0.02
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
[quote=SkiStarr90;537530]
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
My son is 11, 5'4", 100 lb, and a Level 7 maybe 8 skier. quote]

Im not saying that youre wrong, but i find ti hard to believe that an 11 y/o is a leel 7-8 skier. Now I may be wrong, but an innacurate level judegemnt could lead to an innacurate boot. Just my $ 0.02
Well, I understand your concern -- I wondered about adding that, but didn't know the best way of describing. I looked up a few descriptions, and that looked best. He is in no way a full level 8, but he's better than most level 7 descriptions I've seen. (I think that's a pretty common place to be, isn't it? It seems like quite the jump from 7 to 8 and then 9. Lots of variables in there.)

He can ski well pretty much anything in-bounds unless the conditions are quite bad or difficult for a kid, ie crud and chop, or super steep AND deep. Steep is no problem, deep (and light -- we're usually in Colorado) is not much of a problem. Both of those together is still tough for him. (So that's where I take him, so I can still keep up. ) He is pretty good out of bounds, too, but we haven't tackled too much of that. Been in some pretty hairy icy chute situations, and he's calm and smooth.

Besides, I don't think the level of skier is necessarily that important in this decision. ANYTHING that fits his foot and leg (which is long and thin, which worries me about women's boots, since it seems like softer-flexing boots will be too wide in the cuff) and doesn't cost a million bucks or require much work will be fine, because I know he won't have a lot of choices.
post #4 of 24
[quote=segbrown;537536]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiStarr90 View Post

Besides, I don't think the level of skier is necessarily that important in this decision. ANYTHING that fits his foot and leg (which is long and thin, which worries me about women's boots, since it seems like softer-flexing boots will be too wide in the cuff) and doesn't cost a million bucks or require much work will be fine, because I know he won't have a lot of choices.
I will say that the level of skier can determine the boot because a higher level skier may choose a stiffer boot for more control ande vice versa. A high level skier may not harness all of the ability he posseses with a beginner boot. But you provided good info for a bootfitter.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
[quote=SkiStarr90;537551]
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

I will say that the level of skier can determine the boot because a higher level skier may choose a stiffer boot for more control ande vice versa. A high level skier may not harness all of the ability he posseses with a beginner boot. But you provided good info for a bootfitter.
Yes, for an adult, that is true. But for a kid who has a hard time flexing ANY (adult) boot -- it's a totally different equation, I believe.
post #6 of 24
Get him to a race shop and I'm sure they'll have something for him. I'd give you recommendations, but they're all in Vermont. Nevertheless, there IS a boot out there for him.
post #7 of 24
Seg,
First off go to Dynastar.com Their Junior boots are sized to a 10.5 US, the WC Team goes to an 11.5 US. Nordica.com shows a junior 27.5, Tecnica has a 27.5. I don't have kids, why am I doing your research???

Lange's junior boot line is sized in US womens sizes so the 10.5 is really a 9.5, but you kid is 5'4" 100lbs, because he wears a 'size 9.5 shoe' doesn't mean he needs a size 9.5 skiboot. Take him to a reputable boot fitter, they'll get him in a great boot for him.

You need to have his foot measured ACCURATELY. You need a good fitter to explain to him how boots should fit and he needs to keep the boot ON his foot long enough to get a feel for it. Every boot feels 'Too Small' after a summer in flip-flops, the battle is trying to get a kid who is used to loose fitting footwear to accept a snug ski boot. No easy task but worth it in the long run.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Seg,
First off go to Dynastar.com Their Junior boots are sized to a 10.5 US, the WC Team goes to an 11.5 US. Nordica.com shows a junior 27.5, Tecnica has a 27.5. I don't have kids, why am I doing your research???

Lange's junior boot line is sized in US womens sizes so the 10.5 is really a 9.5, but you kid is 5'4" 100lbs, because he wears a 'size 9.5 shoe' doesn't mean he needs a size 9.5 skiboot. Take him to a reputable boot fitter, they'll get him in a great boot for him.

You need to have his foot measured ACCURATELY. You need a good fitter to explain to him how boots should fit and he needs to keep the boot ON his foot long enough to get a feel for it. Every boot feels 'Too Small' after a summer in flip-flops, the battle is trying to get a kid who is used to loose fitting footwear to accept a snug ski boot. No easy task but worth it in the long run.
The Langes and Tecnicas that go to 27.5 are their racing boots. He doesn't need racing boots, and his only experience with Langes was not a happy one. Ouch.

I never saw the Nordica you're talking about; all I saw was up to 26.5, or UK8 (aka 26 mondo). He was in Nordica's 26.5 last season (I doublechecked; I misspoke in my original post), and he had one of those nasty growth spurts over the summer, going from an 8 to a 9.5 street shoe. I'm sure he won't fit the 26.5, and I'm not even sure he'd fit the 27.5, even if I wanted to spend $450 and get top-of-the-line boots that I think are most likely overkill. And that he might outgrow by April.

I understand about fitting boots and sizes and whatnot ... he was fitted last season. (By the way, a 9.5 men's is actually an 11 women's. There is 1.5 size difference.) But you have to be pretty careful with how tightly you fit a growing kid's foot. It's a guessing game, and you sure don't want to have to buy TWO pairs in a year. Yikes.

Anyway, the reason I asked is not because I wanted someone else to do research, but because the fitter who spent 2 hr with him last season told us that he was at the last possible stop of their junior boots, and that next year we'd have to step up to adult. Sorry you did my research. But thanks anyway.
post #9 of 24
Segbrown My Recommendation Would Be The Solomon 1080 Park Boot It Is Soft Enough For The Shin Banging Yet Stiff Enough For The Forlateral Movements We Use On All Mountain. I Have Two Boys In These Boots With Quite A Difference In Ability. My 13 Year Old Son Is Well On His Way At The National Level Of Freestyle The Other Is Desiring What His Older Brother Does And Is Eleven. Both Are 50+ Day A Year Skiers The Older More Like 80-90 Days. The Boots Last About A Year For Fit So Look For Them At Swaps Etc. You May Find Them To Be Used Only A Couple Times. Also Look At Selling Last Years Boots At The Same Swaps You Buy From And You May Come Close To Even Swap Money????
post #10 of 24
you probably don't want to go the rental route, but Christy's seasonal rental plan allows for trade-ins/exchanges as the season progresses.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
I never saw the Nordica you're talking about; all I saw was up to 26.5, or UK8 (aka 26 mondo). He was in Nordica's 26.5 last season (I doublechecked; I misspoke in my original post), and he had one of those nasty growth spurts over the summer, going from an 8 to a 9.5 street shoe. I'm sure he won't fit the 26.5, and I'm not even sure he'd fit the 27.5, even if I wanted to spend $450 and get top-of-the-line boots that I think are most likely overkill. And that he might outgrow by April.
That doesn't sound right. Have you done a shell fit yourself? I'm a 10.5 street shoe and a UK 8 Dobie is a somewhat generous fit for me. I don't think a 9 should need a boot that large.
post #12 of 24
On this thread I'd advocated the Salomon 1080 Flyer, that supposedly is available in 27.5 mondo (maybe too short ?) at some outets.
A quick search shows junior boots on the size you want though :
This Nordica is avalaible up to 28 mondo for instance.
Tecnica has the Race pro 90 or the Ultrafit Jr at the right sizes.

Now, I'm surprised by the fact he can't flex women boots. Good junior boots (1080 flyer, ultrafit Jr...) have a flex index around 70. 90 to 100 for 'race' boots. A lot of women boots are avalaible in flexes around 50 or 60. What kind of Nordicas was he in the last season ?! Are you sure, at 100 lbs and being a good skier, he should'nt upgrade a little in terms of flex ?
post #13 of 24
I agree with epic something doesn't sound right in you sizing. I wear a size 9-9.5 street shoe and a UK 6 Nordica Hot Rod. The UK 6 = a 25.5 mondo size. I understand you do not want to get boots that you son will grow out of by the end of the season but you should also get some that are not sloppy. The only way to know for sure is to shell fit. I have found that when my daughter is trying on boots she prefers the comfort of a larger size then what her true size really is. I always buy the smaller size that I determined by shell fitting. For growing kids I usually go by two finger widths between the heel and the shell. While skiing I have never had her tell me her boots were to small she has even told me a couple of times that she is glad I got her the smaller size. My point is just be careful when listening to what your son says feels like the right size. Always shell fit to make sure. The Nordica boots mentioned above by philippeR are on sale at REI for $99. My daughter uses a pair of these and loves them. She is 9 years old, tall and skinny and I don't think she weighs anything over about 70 lbs. She does not have any problems at all flexing these. REI has sizes up to 27.5 which should be more then adequate for your son. I would order a couple of sizes and shell fit him for the correct size and then return the ones that did not fit.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...I_SSHP_SKI_TOC
post #14 of 24
Seg,

A couple of things:

1) If he's in a 9.5 street shoe, he should probably be in an 8 shell. You don't want him swimming around in there. He'll tear up his feet and have no control of the skis.

2) If he is a level 7+ skier, with some height, he will have the leverage and ability to flex a boot. It's also easy to take a boot that's too stiff and soften it by cutting it. A good boot tech will be able to do this if you need it.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
That doesn't sound right. Have you done a shell fit yourself? I'm a 10.5 street shoe and a UK 8 Dobie is a somewhat generous fit for me. I don't think a 9 should need a boot that large.
No, I didn't shell fit -- I did look up about half a dozen conversion charts, and that's basically what they said. 8 UK = 8.5 US, 26 to 26.5 mondo. You're right, that doesn't mean he can't get into it; I need to fit him. But since he outgrew a 26.5 in the same brand, 2+2 to me meant he wouldn't fit.
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
Seg,

A couple of things:

1) If he's in a 9.5 street shoe, he should probably be in an 8 shell. You don't want him swimming around in there. He'll tear up his feet and have no control of the skis.

2) If he is a level 7+ skier, with some height, he will have the leverage and ability to flex a boot. It's also easy to take a boot that's too stiff and soften it by cutting it. A good boot tech will be able to do this if you need it.
I think this is right -- flexing a boot in a store is different than doing it while skiing, right? I'm just afraid of getting him into something too stiff that will hamper his skiing.

He is always shell fit when we buy, so I know that he won't be swimming.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UTpowder View Post
I agree with epic something doesn't sound right in you sizing. I wear a size 9-9.5 street shoe and a UK 6 Nordica Hot Rod. The UK 6 = a 25.5 mondo size. I understand you do not want to get boots that you son will grow out of by the end of the season but you should also get some that are not sloppy. The only way to know for sure is to shell fit. I have found that when my daughter is trying on boots she prefers the comfort of a larger size then what her true size really is. I always buy the smaller size that I determined by shell fitting. For growing kids I usually go by two finger widths between the heel and the shell. While skiing I have never had her tell me her boots were to small she has even told me a couple of times that she is glad I got her the smaller size. My point is just be careful when listening to what your son says feels like the right size. Always shell fit to make sure. The Nordica boots mentioned above by philippeR are on sale at REI for $99. My daughter uses a pair of these and loves them. She is 9 years old, tall and skinny and I don't think she weighs anything over about 70 lbs. She does not have any problems at all flexing these. REI has sizes up to 27.5 which should be more then adequate for your son. I would order a couple of sizes and shell fit him for the correct size and then return the ones that did not fit.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...I_SSHP_SKI_TOC
I will definitely get these ...

I'm confused because my boot guy AND Nordica site say they only go up to 26.5, though? That's why I didn't look. But several sites say they sell a 27.5 or 28? I didn't even think they sold whole sizes, only half. (Isn't a 27 and 27.5 the same shell? I bet that 28 is really a 27.5, and someone rounded up instead of down)

In any case, glad I asked. This is much better than adult boots for now.
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
On this thread I'd advocated the Salomon 1080 Flyer, that supposedly is available in 27.5 mondo (maybe too short ?) at some outets.
A quick search shows junior boots on the size you want though :
This Nordica is avalaible up to 28 mondo for instance.
Tecnica has the Race pro 90 or the Ultrafit Jr at the right sizes.

Now, I'm surprised by the fact he can't flex women boots. Good junior boots (1080 flyer, ultrafit Jr...) have a flex index around 70. 90 to 100 for 'race' boots. A lot of women boots are avalaible in flexes around 50 or 60. What kind of Nordicas was he in the last season ?! Are you sure, at 100 lbs and being a good skier, he should'nt upgrade a little in terms of flex ?
THANK YOU -- these boots aren't on Nordica's web site, but they look absolutely perfect.

He couldn't flex the women's boots that we tried. I'm sure there are women's boots that he can flex ... we couldn't get anything too wide in the cuff, though.
post #19 of 24
Find what fits, if it is too stiff, it can be cut.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
The Langes and Tecnicas that go to 27.5 are their racing boots. He doesn't need racing boots, and his only experience with Langes was not a happy one. Ouch.
I wouldn't get too hunged up with the racing boots classification unless you get into the hardcore race models (World Cup, etc.). They are suitable for skiers at intermediate level and up.

The Lange junior boots (Comp Team) are really good boots and the liners are very warm. The downside is that they are way too stiff for most kids to flex. I've heard good things about the Rossi JR1 or JR2 and the Salomon Course.
post #21 of 24
I'm glad to see everyones concern for getting proper fit for kids. I know first hand how important it is to have boots that fit. When I was 13 years old my dad (a non skier) bought me new boots for Christmas but to make sure I didn't grow out of them anytime soon he bought them in size 11. As mentioned before I am now at 35 years old in a size 25.5. They were the rear entry Riachlle 760 and I actually had my whole foot come out of the buckled up boot while going off a jump. My wife now thinks I spoil our daughter with new gear every year but I don't want her to to have the same bad memories of ski boots that I have. As for the skis Seg. I am also looking at the volkl supersport juniors for my daughter. I tried to talk her into the k2 Apache skis at REI but she wants Volkls or Atomics because thats what my skis are. If I can come up with the $$$ I would like to get us matching Volkl supersports this year. I havn't seen this years supersport jr but if it is the same as in the past the should have the same topsheet as the new S5. If anybodies knows please post. But check out the K2s at REI I have heard a lot of bears say good things about them. Again they are on sale for half price and the have 146 and 153 available.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...I_SSHP_SKI_TOC
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Update -- thanks phillipeR ...I ordered those 28s, and they will be perfect. I wouldn't go any smaller. They arrived yesterday, and they look enormous. Upon shellfitting, he has a little more than 2 fingers, which I'm comfortable with, since it's just August and these need to last until at least April. The liner is cushy, so he has very little room in there; so they should pack out and adjust to his growing all at the same time.

They have all the bells and whistles of an adult boot -- nice adjustable buckles and a cuff strap, etc., with a 50 flex. And they were less than $200 -- yay.

Wonder why they weren't on Nordica's site ... they shouldn't discontinue these.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
Ski advice too? Something all-mountain in a 150 ...
K2 Apache Jr. in a 146 or 153. REI is clearing out last year's model for $75. I believe the ski is structurally unchanged this year, and the only change in the graphics appears to be underfoot. Absolute no brainer.
post #24 of 24
Well, you're almost set up !
Now, if only it could snow...
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