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Flexon-T vs. Flexon Pro-T and other Flexon info?

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for high performance, all around east coast, boots that are narrow fit and lightweight. Flexon's are high on my list, and I am going to try some on Thursday. Also seriously considering Icon XT's. The shop has the Flexon-T's, what I'm wondering is how this boot compares to the boots of old, is it at the same level as the Flexon Comp or any other top of the line Flexon? Or is it a watered down version? I see the Flexon Pro-T around the internet, and am wondering if this a stiffer boot, or just a cosmetic difference? I have also been told the thermoflex liner has been updated somewhat, and is now somewhat denser and stiffer. I've been in technicas for seven years (TNT AVS Racing Silicon, Icon Carbon Foam), and the Icon's just aren't working for me after two years. I am a little concerned about overpowering the Flexons, at 6'1" and 190 lbs, when skiing agressively. Roughly how stiff will it be with the stiffer of the two tongues?

Can you folks help me fill in the blanks?


post #2 of 33
Hmmm.. Flexon....Flexon....That name jogs a my memory. Oh Yes..now I remember.. [img]smile.gif[/img] You obviously haven't done a search, if so, you would have found this thread Titled: Flexon Lovers of America http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c&f=1&t=000770
OK, now to answer your questions. In reading your profile and your foot, it sounds like the Flexon would be a great choice. As far as the current Flexon T vs. Flexons of yesteryear. I have personally been skiing Flexons since 85 and am on my 4th pair of shells. Changes over the years...Rear cuff got beefier, buckles have been improved, (they will break on the 10th day of skiing vs. the old buckles breaking on the 4th ), Power strap has been added. Colors have changed. Check out www.raichle-usa.com to get more info. Liner: No if ands or buts, get the thermoflex liner. You will get a custom molded liner that will be the warmest, lightest and most comfortible thing you could ever put your foot into, it will also shave almost a pound off of each boot. As far as overpowering the boot, I am 5'10" 190 and I have the stock DD tongue, there is a stiffer one available through Raichle... I have yet to find a need for it.

Stiffnesswise, the boot will be softer than what you are used to.. that is not a bad thing. With todays skis the softer progressive flex of this supreme boot is ideal. I have skied the Tecnica that you own along with being offered free..Salomons, LAnges, Tecnica, ect... I will pay for Raichles before I ski anything else. This is the only boot I feel "one" with. If you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer them.
post #3 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Phil....allow me to clarify. I had done a search and read that thread before I started this one. I need to know specifically:

1. Is there a significant difference between the Flexon-T and the Flexon Pro-T? The pro-t's aren't on the Raichle website. Do they use stiffer, thicker plastic, etc?

2. I have been around long enough to know there were several different performance levels of the basic flexon design available. Is the FLEXON-T comparable to the old COMP or is it more like a lower line model? It seems like it is not particularly high end in the SKIING OCT '01 test.

3. I haven't seen the new thermoflex liner, but the old one was NOTHING compared to my technica silicone liners --> SOLID SILICONE RUBBER. I don't need something as beefy as that anymore, but a compromise would be nice, and I was wondering if anyone could comment on the new thermoflex has I hear they have been beefed up. I've skied custom liners for seven years and won't go back.

4. Are there two or three or ??? different tongues available? Two come with the Flexon-T, one soft, one stiffer Dual-density. Raichle also sells a tongue on their website....hummm.

Here's my I'm 23 and in shape. I have a small foot and ski a 296mm boot sole technica. I freeski (and release) with a 12 DIN (tho' sometimes 14 and up). I have freeskied primarily on 203cm Elan R5c Slalom skis for the past 6 years, although I also own and ski:

- '98 WC Race stock Volkl RC Race-carver 197cm with R.S. Salomon bindings and Deflex.

- Rossi Axiom 110 DP 183 cm Powder skis (HEAVY! Awesome in deep trees!)

- '96 Salomon Prolink 3s pr 7

- '96 Elan SCX 163 cm

- Volkl P10 SL 203 cm (for sale!)

- Volkl P10 RS Super 205 cm

I do just about everything on the hill, but haven't been in gates much lately. I'm starting to wear out my stock of old bindings (1 MR, 1 M48, 1 MRR, still have a M51 and MRR, and two 997 salomons in good shape), so I think I'm going to just buy race stock Salomon bindings from now on.

I'll probably pick up some Stockli stormriders this year for all around, and some used shortish (211cm) dh salomons w/race stock binding and deflex, and use the binding primarily on the stockli's.

Do you see where I'm coming from as far as being concerned with overpowering a boot sometimes?

Again though, I need something that doesn't beat me up to much and weigh a ton. My Icons are ~15 lbs, and the race carvers clear 18 lbs. I can't wait to have a light high performance setup that I can ski all day.

As far as my foot goes: low volume and very flat/pronation/nasty navicular bone.


post #4 of 33
wow, you ski a small boot. I thought I did at a 301mm shell. Raichle has a 293mm which should be up your ally, although you might find it tough to find in a shop. As you said over the years there were different levels of Flexons, Comps, Pros, VIP's, reg tongues and DD tongues. Raichle was origionally going to offer a Pro and a Pro-T in some IMO gawd aweful colors, but if you go to the web site there is just the one that will be offered now. What is shown there, is the is the Pro, not the Pro-T, The Pro_T has a stiffer rear cuff i.e. some of the earlier Comps. Take a look at the boot on this page, you will see a additional cuff at the top of teh boot that is not on the Flexon Pro. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI...tem=1025168610
Now , before youdecide to go with a new boot, I personally would take a look and follow auctions on ebay. For example... I just picked up a brand new pair of Flexons in a 277mm shell, for my son for....$1.99!!! thats right One dollar and ninety-nine cents! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1022440620&ed=10044035 97 now not all deals are this good, I even surprised myself here...but deals are out there. Hell even if you find a pair with a couple of days in them for 25.00 and buy new thermoflex liners.. you are talking less that 200.00 for a boot that will run you 400.00 plus. For that matter, you should be able to find some race stock S900's on ebay too.

Where do you live and what store is stocking Flexons? Or you can also order them directly from Raichle too.

As far as the rating of these boots in magazines has baffled me...When you have some of the strongest freeskiers and racers in this boot, how can it be rated as an intermediate boot? and its not just this your it has been that way for the past couple of years..

As far as the tongue... you listed what you had skied, now what will you be skiing? Equipement and terrain? Also this boot is designed to flex... don't take that as a bad thing or that it is wimpy, ski it then decide. It is softer in a progressive forward manner yet extremely stiff rear ward and laterally where you need it.

Your concerds reguarding the Thermoflex liners are justifed, I have the 2nd Generation High Density liner and it is not a hight performance liner. I still use it because the weight and warmth outweigh the nominal loss of performance...for me. I am 38 and I do not see a need for that cutting edge, cutting circulation liner anymore. I will be coing to the new thermos this year though, because my old ones are 6 seasons old and have had 3 re-molds.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 30, 2001 05:49 AM: Message edited 2 times, by Phil Pugliese ]</font>
post #5 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks again, Phil.

So I called Raichle today, and their rep cleared up couple things for me:

1. The Flexon Pro-T and Flexon-T are identical boots except for color, and the stiffness of the tongue.
2. The Flexon-T comes with the soft and the medium tongues, while the Pro-T has the stiff tongue.
3. The Pro-T is the most similar in stiffness to the Flexon Comps of old.
4. The stiff tongue is available from Raichle, however not until February in my boot size - possibly.
5. The liner is basically the same, just a little thinner overall, and thicker in the "tongue" area.

As far as my skiing goes, I do just about everything, with enthusiasim. Bumps, jumps, steeps, speed, gates, woods, powder, halfpipe, etc, in no particular order. Virtually no backcountry. This year I'll ski two nights a week locally in MA, and travel to VT, NH, ME on weekends. I skied about 100 days a year in high school and raced a little, but mostly freeskiing. About 20-30 days a year over the years of college, but now I'm a free man (sort of)!

post #6 of 33
Red Sled, Thanks for the research.

I'm not Phil, but like him I have skied in Raichle Flexon's since the mid eighties. My latest boot is a circa 1997 Raichle Flexon Comp with a dual density "Racing Flex" tongue.

This season I purchased from Raichle the Pro-T tongue. To me it feels stiffer than the old DD tongues and single density tongues but not a whole lot more. I don't know whether that is a design difference or as a result of some fatigue in the old tongues.
I will report more when I actually get to ski with them.

For $50.00 you can always pick up the Pro-T tongue later if you want to and you would still be paying less than for many other comparable quality boots (Because they have changed only modestly over the years for Raichle long ago recouped most of their R&D costs). The Raichle buckle system does look kind of retro but it is very functional and mine have provan durable.

P.S.Flexon's are about as versatile a performance boot as you are likely to find which has contributed to their staying power in the marketplace and the fact that so many exceptional skiers ski in them. My first two pairs of Raichles we used almost always in New England ski conditions. More recently I have been skiing much more in the west because of where I now live.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 30, 2001 08:08 PM: Message edited 2 times, by Lostboy ]</font>
post #7 of 33
Thread Starter 
So I tried on some Flexon-T's last night…..man, that is one soft boot. They fit my foot great, and I'll bet the liner gets better (harder) with the heat molding/compression, but I could flex them way, way too much. MUSHY. Unfortunately, they only seem to come with a soft tongue, there wasn't an extra tongue in the box. The shop is going to call their local rep and see about getting me both the medium and the stiff tongues. Lostboy, where did you get your tongue? I would need one for a size 25/293mm boot sole. Otherwise, could anybody point me towards a shop that sells the Flexon Pro-T?

post #8 of 33

Reguarding over flexing the boot, I could understand seeing your height and weight and the boot being a 293mm shell. Most skiers skiing this size boot would be smaller. A stiffer tongue will help. Also for a point of referance, I think its Chris Davenport, Seth Morrison or one of the other bigtime free skiers skiing this in the 293 shell, so it is being done. Don't take this the wrong way...there are bigger, stronger and better skiers than you or I in this boot, If you are getting a good fit, go a stiffer in the tongue and trust the universe.
post #9 of 33
Thread Starter 
Yet another update -

A very reliable source out in Colorado (Larry at Boulder Ski Deals), was able to clear up the tongue differences for me, and his info comes from Levi Pasquam, the KDR product manager. These guys do about 75 Flexons a year, and Larry skis them himself. The Dual Density tongue is the "medium" tongue, which is the equivalent to the Flexon Comp, Flexon 9.9, and the Flexon Pro-T which also has the same tongue. This tongue was supposed to be included with all Flexon-T boots, and will be available and sent out around November 15th. The Flexon Pro-T was produced last year in a very limited run and is just the normal Flexon with the same dual density tongue (ie. A Flexon Comp, 9.9, etc), the only difference from the Flexon -T is you don't get the soft tongue included, and get a wacky green color.

Larry also discussed the "stiff" tongue, commonly known as a "World Cup" tongue, or possibly a "nylon" tongue. He said these were VERY, VERY difficult to get, as it took him about TWO YEARS to get the set he got last year. This MIGHT be the tongues that MIGHT be coming in around February, but who knows. Larry said Levi might know where to get some, so I emailed him. I had talked to Will Attenfield (?) at KDR previously and received the information in my previous post, which perhaps had been miscommunicated/misunderstood. I'll bet many pro freeskiers have this tongue and use it some of the time.

All those skis I listed are what I STILL SKI, actively in my quiver! I'm thinking about some stockli stormriders in a 186 cm, a BEEFY, GS-like, all mountain ski, and I'd also like some downhill race boards with a deflex just for fun.

As far as my strength and size goes, I'm sure I'm not as big as some WC guys or nearly the shape, but I definitely am just as big as many pro freeriders, and possibly as strong as some, not quite the ability, but I get by quite nicely. I also race DH mountain bikes (expert), and take my 46 lb bike on cross country rides with pretty decent climbs (I also have an XC bike). My brother, however, is a professional snowboarder, at 6'1" and a wopping 145 lb. That's good enough to place in the top twenty in several national halfpipe comps and freeride at Stowe daily. I trust my experience, and if I fold a boot over at a shop, I think I might need a little more than the next stiffest tongue for skiing sheet ice/gates, or maybe I'll just use my Tecnicas for that purpose. That's not to say the DD tongue won't work fine for freeskiing, which is why I'm buying the boot.

post #10 of 33
You are in good hands with Larry and Will from KDR. I have been in contact with Will quite a bit over the past month or so reguarding different stuff. Keep us posted. looks like we got another one.
post #11 of 33
Red sled,

I bought the Pro-T tongue from Kdr. As I mentioned it feels somewhat stiifer than my dual density "racing flex" tongues on both my current booots and my older Flexon Comp's 9.9's and my single density cira 1984 or '85 red and black Flexon Comps. Based on your explanation it's probably just due to some fatigue in the older Tongues.

I will be going to Japan this Saterday. There are plenty of Raichle boot dealers in Tokyo. If you are looking for the pro-T Tongue in your size maybe I can score a pair.

A shop may possibly also have the very very stiff tongue you mentioned. Let me know if you are interested and I will do what I can. Let me know also if color matters.
I don't know what they would cost but the current exchange rate is about 122 Yen to the $.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ October 31, 2001 09:12 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Lostboy ]</font>
post #12 of 33
Thread Starter 
Lostboy -

Thank you for the offer, yes, I would be interested if you could find a WC type tongue, as I shouldn't have any problem getting the DD/pro-t tongue. The size would be as listed above, specifically the 293mm boot sole. It might be VERY difficult unless the Flexon's popularity over there is much, much higher. It seems like a very uncommon item. As far as color goes....who cares! I would happily pay a premium if I could get these by the start of the season, though I'm sure your time is very valuable.



OOPS....I might be able to get a pair, found a "more conventional" source. I'll get back to you........

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 01, 2001 07:40 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Red Sled ]</font>
post #13 of 33
Thread Starter 
All squared away....

The medium (DD) tounges have arrived at the shop already, and I managed to get the last set of WC tongues in my size in the country sent from Levi at KDR. I'll keep my fingers crossed until they're all in hand at the shop, but......woooohooooo!

Props to Larry at BSD, Levi at KDR, Pat, the manager at Strand's in Worcester MA (shop of purchace), and you guys for helping me figure this out.

post #14 of 33
Red Sled,
Thanks for all your homework. Even after the two decades or so that Flexon's have been around there are still new things about them to learn. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #15 of 33
Red Sled,

What color are those WC tongues you speak of? I saw some tongues at a garage sale that seemed mighty stiff. They were definately stiffer than the DD tounges that are on my Scarpa Lasers. Anyone else have any info on this?

post #16 of 33
Its a shame you got yours... here is a hellava deal...in your size too!

Hmmm pick up a spare pair?
post #17 of 33
In Japan Raichle Flexon's are in fact very popular. They are right up there with Lange and Salomon. While in Tokyo I went to a Raichle dealer and ordered a set of the super stiff tongues (not the Pro-T). It took two days to have them delivered by the Japan distributer to the local shop. The cost was equivilent of $130 USD. I don't know whether they ship directly to the USA but the Raichle Japan parts section phone number is 011-81-471-83-2380. I ordered them through Alpina Sports in Jimbocho, Tokyo. 011-03-3291-3270. The guy at Raichle Parts Section speaks very good english. BTW the super stiff tongues they have only come in yellow.

P.S. I am really not kidding about Raichle Flexon's popularity in Japan. One shop in Jimbocho called Victoria 011-03-3294-7857 even carries vintage Flexon models as well as the latest lime green (Pro-T) and electric blue (standard) versions. Note of caution. Although the Raichle distributer parts section guy speaks very good english, you are sort of on your own when it comes to talking with the ski shop folks.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 09, 2001 02:33 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Lostboy ]</font>
post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
Lostboy -

I just checked with my shop and they have them in - yellow and virtually immobile (REEEEALLY stiff). Lord, I hope they don't run me $130, that seems kinda pricy (Japan is expensive), but now I'm prepared for the worst. I really do need a stiff boot sometimes, so I guess I do need these if this is going to be my only boot. How stiff are your's compared to some high end boots, and the medium tongue? Think you'll use them much?

WC - racing/ice/boiler plate
DD - Freeskiing
Soft - park/pipe


post #19 of 33
Red Sled,

As I understand it the WC tongue has made its mark mostly in Downhill racing on the World Cup. By World Cup standards The Raichle WC tongue would be viewed as fairly soft flexing even for Downhill. But remember how strong the WC guys are.

This past season I bought a new pair of short slalom race skis. I also have a pair of SL race skis that I can't bear to "retire".

I primarily bought the WC tongue in Japan to see how much difference it will make in responsiveness and preciseness using my slalom skis to make race course turns. At 5'11' and 180lbs and not on the World Cup circuit I think the new tongues will work for me. I like to run gates for fun but am not a competative racer.

I used to ski Langes years ago which were stiffer than the Flexon "race flex" or its successor the Pro-T tongue.

I have tried the Head WC silicon injectable boot which has a both a GS and SL setting and is very stiff boot at either setting. As soon as I can actually ski with the new tongues I will offer a comparison. Just bending them at home they feel measurably stiffer than the Flexon-Pro tongue and "race flex" tongue.

Right now I'm just hoping Ull will bring snow soon.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 13, 2001 02:43 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Lostboy ]</font>
post #20 of 33
Thread Starter 
Lostboy -

Thanks, I just checked with my shop, I'm going to get them for $50. Levi gave them/me a deal. Will report on friday.

post #21 of 33
Red Sled,

You got a great deal on the WC tongues. The Kdr. folks and your shop guy are pretty :
post #22 of 33
I am setting up my position with Raichle as a mountain rep, and I will have access to boots and supplies. You will be able to e-mail me with your Raichle Flexon needs.
post #23 of 33

I got a raichle proform in todays mail, flexon for a good price---what do you think?

I also have a small low volume foot, currently in a Technica TVS sole lenth 293, mens 6 or 61/2 if I remember right.

Unfortunately I am not near any place that I knowe of that sells the boot to try one on. But for that price, I may just give them a shot.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 14, 2001 06:45 PM: Message edited 1 time, by skier_j ]</font>
post #24 of 33
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by skier_j:

I also have a small low volume foot, currently in a Technica TVS sole lenth 293, mens 6 or 61/2 if I remember right.

Unfortunately I am not near any place that I knowe of that sells the boot to try one on. But for that price, I may just give them a shot.

That sounds about right. I am in a 301mm Raichle and when I put on a Tecnica 302mm it is a size 7. I believe you will like the boot. Welcome to the team.

post #25 of 33
Red sled

I am having trouble locating a dealer in my area, if you are in the mass, Upstate NY, Vt etc area let me know where you found a shop please.
post #26 of 33
Thread Starter 
Mr. i,

I'm getting the boots at Strands in Worcester, MA. 508-852-4333. I'm getting their only pair of 293mm Flexon-T's, today! They shouldn't have a problem ordering them, but they won't have the size to try on (I think). Try the raichle dealer locator on their site, there are several in the region stocking the boot.

You're from Pittsfield? I grew up in Lenox, skiing at Bousquet. What's up out there? Depending how old you are, and if you ski at Bousquet, you might know who I am (or my brother, Brian, pro snowboarder). What shop do you usually deal with?

post #27 of 33
Hi Red Sled

(Hope that is no indication of a frequent means of transport down!! Red Sled that is)

Small world, I am on patrol at Bousquet for 10 or 11 yrs. I usually deal with John Kirby's Ski Fanatics shop in Pittsfield, but he does not carry Raichle.

Thanks for the info
post #28 of 33
Can I get Flexons anywhere in Whistler? I can get them here in the UK but would rather have them fitted in resort by an experienced fitter. Couldn't find any mention of Canada on the websites so just wondering if anyone knew.
post #29 of 33
Try the international www.kneissl.com site. Click on ski boots and then on shops. Under Canada they have the e-mail address and other info for their Raichle Canadian distributor. Hope tihs helps.
post #30 of 33
Great, thanks Lostboy.
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