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2007 Burton Catalog Has Arrived

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
The paperboy's off the hook for the next week or so!
post #2 of 25
My son was in the bathroom for two hours last night with that book. Atleast I know he's too young to be doing other things in there.
post #3 of 25
I saw some of the 2007 gear (clothing) in a local shop the other day....they have some REALLY ugly stuff.
post #4 of 25
And nobody cared...

burton sold out years ago to image...
post #5 of 25
Yep, their efforts in, say, the splitboard area clearly have been non-core. :
post #6 of 25
I was pretty bumbed. the've had some nice stuff in the past.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
It's lonely at the top in whatever you do...
post #8 of 25
true...its lonely...but in all honesty does burton make the best board? are they truly dedicated to the sport? if so, Why dump Alpine. why ignore the any group of riders. Burton uses it's market power to set trends regardless of whether it makes sense. can some one please explain why they need to have highbacks that can lock up. when on toe side...there is no pressure on them. when on heelside, they are locked out by the heel cup. so why? why haven't other companies installed it? because its useless. likewise. why continue with the 3x3 hole pattern? only to sell more interfacing parts. cant run a pair of ride bindings on a burton...if thats your pleasure. They control the US Open, eliminated racing and BX. furthermore they accept no responsibility for broken equipment...their warranty dept sucks.

burton sucks...period
post #9 of 25
Fish, split shape, Triumph, Custom... lots of people seem to like their stuff, including their bindings and boots, a lot. Just the Fish by itself has made lots of peoples' days.
post #10 of 25
Good points, Sir Mack. Except on warranty. I've had plate bindings replaced and the tongues of my hard boot liners replaced when they cracked (liners sent back and new tongues sewn in). No questions asked.

Haven't had much need for Burton lately. Bought a very simple but really nice Burton windshirt on sale a few years ago.

How can we take a snowboard manufacturer seriously if they don't offer race equipment? I think they still make it and sell to European market. They can't put it in the U.S. catalog for fear of alienating the loser/punk (= typical snowboarder?). Interesting what it seems to say about how Burton sees their American customers...
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
[snip]...

How can we take a snowboard manufacturer seriously if they don't offer race equipment? I think they still make it and sell to European market. They can't put it in the U.S. catalog for fear of alienating the loser/punk (= typical snowboarder?). Interesting what it seems to say about how Burton sees their American customers...
Loser/punk is an interesting way to describe typical snowboarders. There was more of a punkish element to riding back when Burton carried alpine. Here's the deal: 10 years ago, freeriders in say, Jackson Hole were often in plates, and alpine overall was much more popular. Soft boots got stiffer, boards evolved, and for a variety of reasons alpine participation fell off.

Niche board manufacturers can make some money supporting alpine, but even most of them make freestyle and freeride boards and skis now to diversify.

Also, when you see all the misrepresentations about, say, Burton plate bindings that get made by a lot of alpine riders -- racers strangely are still using Burton bindings a lot, but there are a lot of recreational riders who swear that they're **** -- I'm not sure that any large manufacturer would see great incentive to getting back into that side of the sport unless it starts to grow again.
post #12 of 25
I just checked, Burton is no longer making alpine boards. My comments were based on an assumption that they made the stuff but were afraid to show it to U.S. consumers for fear of losing "cred". (This was the case before 2006, as far as I can tell.)

The consumer who would be turned off from a brand solely because they make race stuff is the "loser/punk" I was referring to.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
I just checked, Burton is no longer making alpine boards. My comments were based on an assumption that they made the stuff but were afraid to show it to U.S. consumers for fear of losing "cred". (This was the case before 2006, as far as I can tell.)

The consumer who would be turned off from a brand solely because they make race stuff is the "loser/punk" I was referring to.
Never heard of anyone being turned off by companies making race stuff. I think that assumption you are making is also off. Afraid of making alpine gear and having it not sell enough to justify the effort is probably closer to the mark.
post #14 of 25
Well, they were making it until this year...

A lot of their stuff is made overseas, but makes it into their U.S. catalog.

Clearly I am making assumptions and could be wrong. There was a very definite anti-race attitude among some riders, especially around the time Burton stopped showing their race gear in their U.S. catalog.
post #15 of 25

Pls. keep in mind...

Before you rush to judgement, please keep in mind:

1. Burton was a on the forefront of working to gain resort acceptance. Would this have happened anyway w/o their efforts? Maybe. But maybe not.

2. Burton's direct support of snowboard instruction and instructor training programs has helped develop these programs since before boarding was allowed at resorts.

3. Burton's direct support of riders and competition, and their involvement with the media (again, since the inception of the sport) has helped to progress the level of riding and give the sport visibility, increasing participation worldwide.

4. Burton has long been on the forefront of product development, and has made the investments in R&D and manufacturing that has driven a lot of what you're riding today.

5. Since the days of rubber-band binding woodies, I've never had a problem with Burton's warranty dept (and I've snapped more gear than most folks). At least for me, they have always stood behind their product.

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn. IMO Burton has done more than anyone else on the planet to develop the sport.
post #16 of 25
IMO they killed alpine. Probably step-in bindings, too.

Burton's impact on the development of the sport has been large but not positive in my opinion. Increased participation is not important to me and it would have happened anyway. Snowboarding technology would be more advanced if Burton never existed.
post #17 of 25

???

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
IMO they killed alpine.
How did Burton kill alpine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Snowboarding technology would be more advanced if Burton never existed.
??? How is that?
post #18 of 25
1) Industry leader should sponsor racers, support racing. Instead Burton dropped the ball and expressed an anti-racing anti-hard boot sentiment in their catalog. Not only by leaving the race equipment (that they still were making) out of the catalog, but also making fun of riding in ski boots, etc. in the catalog text. Removing racing from Burton sponsored competition (U.S. Open).

2) Dominant company stifling innovations by competitors. Good for business, bad for comsumers.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
1) Industry leader should sponsor racers, support racing. Instead Burton dropped the ball and expressed an anti-racing anti-hard boot sentiment in their catalog. Not only by leaving the race equipment (that they still were making) out of the catalog, but also making fun of riding in ski boots, etc. in the catalog text. Removing racing from Burton sponsored competition (U.S. Open).
Telerod, is it possible you're applying the traditional ski paradigm to a sport that may not fit so neatly within traditional parameters?

Although it's true in many sports (skiing, auto racing, skating, bicycling, etc.) that race programs lead to innovations which eventually trickle down to the weekend warrior, I don't believe it imperative to snowboarding for several reasons. First off, the hardboot, race-oriented segment of the sport is a very small niche element; whether Burton caused the marginalization of hard booters, or is simply responding to the lack of interest is obviously up for debate. Second, the consumer benefits from high level race programs by virtue of the technology which trickles down. What's to say Burton's support of high level competitors in other disciplines (freestyle, freeride, etc.) hasn't accomplished the same goal? Finally, even though Burton is not pushing the development of race gear, other manufacturers are, in both skiing and snowboarding. Any breakthrough of monumental proportions by K2, Bomber, etc., will be noticed and embraced by Burton and its direct competitors.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
1) Industry leader should sponsor racers, support racing...Removing racing from Burton sponsored competition (U.S. Open).

2) Dominant company stifling innovations by competitors. Good for business, bad for comsumers.
Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you that racing is a great way to develop riding and equipment. But I don't think it's the only way--and wonder that the prism through which you're judging Burton is extremely narrow.

Burton sponsors and supports competition. You're dissing them because they don't support a certain kind of competition (the type you like?)--even though the vast majority of riders and spectators might prefer the other types of competition (freestyle) they do suport? I can think of more than a few other sports (surfing, vert skating, gymnastics, dancing with the stars, sex) where being the fastest is not the sole object.

I'm not saying that racing doesn't have its place. But it does seem to me that the types of competition are currently preeminent are popular NOT because Burton doesn't support racing--but because they are in themselves fun and exciting to watch--and might better showcase what to many the sport is about (fun, freedom, self-expression rather than a focus on the clock).

I'm not privy to manufacturing secrets, but I've not seen that Burton has stifled innovation from competitors. It seems to me that they continually make boards that are lighter, more durable, and capable of higher levels of performance. Their competitors do, too.

Anyway, I'm sure this will likely not change anyone's mind. I simply wanted to remind the dissonant crowd that Burton has made many positive contributions to the sport. IMO more than anyone else. I appreciate that.
post #21 of 25
Fair enough. I'll admit their boards are very good. I just don't think any industry benefits from one company controlling 80% of the market, but maybe we ARE better off because of Burton. Certainly they have contributed a lot to the sport. You may not have changed my mind but perhaps you have caused it to open up a tiny bit.
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
You may not have changed my mind but perhaps you have caused it to open up a tiny bit.
Ahh...the hundreds of hours spent on this site have finally begun to pay off!

Seriously though, that tiny opening is all us Burton supporters are asking for.
post #23 of 25
Well, alpine racing was fun to watch before they went to the parallel format.

As far as alpine boards, small manufacturers are putting out vastly superior products compared to what Burton made, so the lack of competition from a big manufacturer such as Burton isn't such a bad thing. I might demo one or two Burton freeride snowboards just to see if they're that good (hopefully a Custom X and a Vapor) even though I don't snowboard anymore.

I didn't know that they were influential in pulling racing from the events which they sponsored, and I think it's pretty ridiculous that they would make fun of any type of snowboarding. That is obviously using market dominance to cultivate an image.

I remember reading about that catalog. I think it was the year after Jasey Jay Anderson left Burton for Coiler and indicated to the press about how much better their boards were. In a later interview he described the boards from "a big corporation" that he used to be sponsored by as "two-by-fours with a topsheet." When he switched he immediately started getting podium finishes again.

I wouldn't say that they stifle innovation, though.
post #24 of 25
Burton NEVER EVER PRODUCED ALPINE BOARDS THEMSELVES DURING THE LAST 10 YEARS

All those great burton race boards since 1988 were produced exclusively by Oldenbürg (www.oldenburg.at) an OEM manufacturer in Upper Austria. Oldenburg also builds board and skis of high quality for other big players since 2002. Burton never ever did anything to improve those boards. Most of the old burton models can still be bought in Austria directly at the factory, however they haven't been developped. Still the old shapes. Burton sold 35000 to 40000 race boards a year during their good years. Seams that when it declined they couldn't make any more profit out of it and dropped it.
Oldenbürg also produced some other highend boards for Burton. Oldenbürg ALL Mountain freeride board is a great board for freecarving and BX . Noone of them gives feedback (except returns) for burton producttoo (build in race construction on demand)

I love my burton race plates (non step-in) too. They tend to break but are just great for me. In racing having the stiffest binding may not what you want. Burton race plates are very popular due to their lateral flex and low height. I can't say if it was Burton who produced them or outsourced as well.

All that great our pro riders (in freeride and freestyle) give feedback in building boards is mainly marketing chit-chat. Yes professional riders give feedback which is highly valued. Best in that seem to have been the Schoch Brothers giving feedback to Kessler and developping Kessler boards which now dominate the Boardercross (aka Palmer) and the race series. I have met quite a lot professional popular Austrian freestyle snowboarders on the waterramp where we train in summer. Guess what - All of them order their boards for competitions from small custom board producers because those boards that their companies sell with their name on are just plainly uncompetitive for freestyle worldcup.

Burton sells great clothes though - I can rarely resist to order many of them on pro-form. Their softboots are great too, even for competitions - once you throw away that liner and get a foam liner inside. However don't think that burton would be anyhow innovative. Most of their production is outsourced and they buy and market what their producers give them.

I still like Burton though cause they sponsor a lot of riders here in Austria and are easy on giving out pro-forms with good terms (about 80% off from list price). I guess they now build their boards themselves as they go cheap on pro form - however they probabely buy their clothes somewhere else cause even on pro-form discount is only bout 60%.
post #25 of 25
Oh and nobile in Poland did or does produce boards on competition level for Burton too. We could try to establish a list of where Burton lets produce their boards.

Other snowboard companies are not better anyhow. F2, Duotone and many more were just marketing names for distribution, letting the big players like Elan produce their snowboards. There are very few real mass producers for snowboard stuff.
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