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Translation help - please

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
To satisfy demand on translation of some articles from German to English, I find myself stuck in the jungle of terms. :
Do you have any suggestions for
  • "Aufkantwinkel" - the angle between snow and ski

  • Opposite of carving would you say a) drifting, b) skidding c) [..?]
  • Is "construction radius" a common expression?
  • "Effektive Kantenlänge" - the part of the edge which is in contact with the snow.
  • "To let the skis do their work, let them go" - any suggestions?
  • You will soon experience that your skis want to [drive?] a full circle. You can use this characteristic to control your speed: simply drive uphill a little bit, in order to not go into the next turn too fast. - Is this description of speed control by the line understandable?
thx for your help!
nicola
post #2 of 34
Nicola,

Wow, you are taking on an interesting task. You might find Bob Barnes' book, The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing of use. You can get a PDF copy at the following site:

http://www.psia-rm.org/DetailPage.asp?ProductID=105

It is very hard to find a print copy of it now. Bob is working on a 4th edition.

Here is what I would use for your terms: (Remember I got a D in the only course I took in German.)

"Aufkantwinkel" - Edge angle

"Opposite of Carving" - It could be Skidding or Drifting depending on what you are trying to get across to the reader. To me Skidding has a more "out of control" connotation in American English whereas Drifting has a less harsh connotation. Examples, "I skidded my turn and felt my ski chatter." "I drifted to the right to change my line."

"Construction Radius" - Sidecut Radius or Radius of the Sidecut (I really like the term construction radius. It describes exactly what it is, the radius constructed into the ski.)

"Effektive Kantenlänge" - Effective edge length

"To let the skis do their work, let them go" - This works for me. Of course it depends on what the situation is. Sometimes you need to work the ski for it to turn effectively.

"You will soon experience that your skis want to [drive?] a full circle. You can use this characteristic to control your speed: simply drive uphill a little bit, in order to not go into the next turn too fast. - Is this description of speed control by the line understandable?" - Instead of drive, I recommend using the word turn in both places. Yes, it is a good definition of one type of speed control and it is understandable.
post #3 of 34
Thread Starter 
Wow - ultrasonic intercontintal ski cooperation - this the www is must have been made for
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Square
"Aufkantwinkel" - Edge angle
There often is a confusion with this term in German, as even World Cup racers mix the terms of the angle on the edge (btw. do you say side edge?) and the angle between snow and ski.
post #4 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifex
There often is a confusion with this term in German, as even World Cup racers mix the terms of the angle on the edge (btw. do you say side edge?) and the angle between snow and ski.
Use "side edge bevel" or "Base bevel" to describe the ski tune.

Use "Edge Angle" for ski/snow contact.

Hope that helps.
post #5 of 34
The diagram on this page about 1/2 way down gives a good visual on the base and side bevels:

http://www.racewax.com/tuneedge.html
post #6 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tief schnee
Use "side edge bevel" or "Base bevel" to describe the ski tune.

Use "Edge Angle" for ski/snow contact.

Hope that helps.
Thx a lot! Interesting nick btw., is there any certain expierence behind it? :
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifex
Thx a lot! Interesting nick btw., is there any certain expierence behind it? :
Winter of 98/99, Winklemoos/Steinplatte.
post #8 of 34
Thread Starter 
  • Auflagefläche - The "area" of the ski (on the base) which is in contact with snow - contact face?
post #9 of 34
post #10 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tief schnee
Winter of 98/99, Winklemoos/Steinplatte.
Alles klar! - I got it..
post #11 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tief schnee
Thx again - and the next. The procedure to put the skis on the edge? - German "aufkanten" used as a verb - edging?
post #12 of 34
Edging it is!

By the way, I would use "contact length" to describe the length of the ski that contacts the snow.
post #13 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Edging it is!

By the way, I would use "contact length" to describe the length of the ski that contacts the snow.
O.K.
  • Schrittwechsel - to change directions one can [skip?] the feet/skis in oppositional directions - forward/backward like horses do it at a gallop. I know there is an expression in dancing for that - to skip - for the reason that the skier doesn't jump I'm not sure if skipping would be the right expression.
post #14 of 34
^^ shuffle the feet
post #15 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tief schnee
^^ shuffle the feet
this makes sense - thx - next time you come to ski in Austria I'll pay for a round to all "translators"
post #16 of 34
( T-Square ) That was perfect. It seems you know how to Carve Properly.
post #17 of 34
Running length for length of ski in contact with snow.

Tipping angle seems clearer to me than edge angle.

Your diagram of "construction radius" looks like a fillet cut in the side of the ski's vertical cross-section, and not the sidecut radius which matches the side of a horizontal ski to a circle on the snow.

Skidding and drifting mean too many things to too many different people. I would just say side-slipping.
post #18 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost
Running length for length of ski in contact with snow.

Tipping angle seems clearer to me than edge angle.

Your diagram of "construction radius" looks like a fillet cut in the side of the ski's vertical cross-section, and not the sidecut radius which matches the side of a horizontal ski to a circle on the snow.

Skidding and drifting mean too many things to too many different people. I would just say side-slipping.
Thx - Ghost - the "fillet" is due to German explanation in my dictionary of skiterms on radius which is used ambigous, this is the sidecut pic
post #19 of 34
Pure Carving: Arc created with no slippage of edge as skis bend into reverse camber proportionate to edge angle (and snow density). Each ski leaves a knife edged track as entire contact edge passes thru same spot, creating an arc, in snow. Line and direction dominant employing gliding, not braking, on desired line to control speed.

Drifting: Arc created by entire length displacing at the same rate through a turn while still effectivly employing sidecut and reverse camber of ski design but leaving a uniform width, yet fairly narrow track from each ski. A variable balance of gliding/braking and a stepping stone on the way to learning to pure carve and a useful option where space precludes speed control by line alone. Liken to a four wheel drift in a car.

Skidding: Braking dominant, directionally challenged turn employed by majority of skiers. Cresant moon shaped overlapped tracks reflect tails of skis displacing faster than tips. Liken to back end of a car skidding around.

Sideslipping: Uniform forward, backward, or lateral slipping of entire skis without any arc being produced.

Choose your option that produces the biggest grin, but all can be used skillfully in a variety of terrain and snow conditions.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifex
Thx - Ghost - the "fillet" is due to German explanation in my dictionary of skiterms on radius which is used ambigous, this is the sidecut pic
Sidecut, as defined above is pretty unambiguous.

If I were to draw a circle and fit it to the side of that ski drawn above, I would have a radius, typically written on the ski's topsheet along with the tip, waist and tail dimensions. This radius is often called the "sidecut radius". This is not the same as a measurement indicating how sharp the sidewalls are shaped in the vertical plane. Your diagram in post 1 looked more like a cross section thatn a plan view of the ski See for example page 4 of http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/data...all%20prep.pdf
post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thank you Ghost - as my dictionary is mostly visited by absolute laities, due to many obscurities of my users I changed the illustration from a construction drawing into a simple graphic to show the context between the sidecut radius and the radius of a skied turn. There is a context given through the descripition http://www.kunstpiste.com/glossary_e...hp?term=Radius which of course is different to the one in my question for "Konstruktions Radius" in this thread. As I am occupied with detailed construction parameters through my role in our company I know what you mean and appreciate your expert input very much!
post #22 of 34

more translations, please



Hi,

I'm working on the translation of the ski manual together with skifex...

now what I would need is the name of the action, that then causes the edge angle...

I'm not as profound in skiing terms, as skifex, so an upfront excuse for "stupid questions"
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifex
  • Auflagefläche - The "area" of the ski (on the base) which is in contact with snow - contact face?
Tief Schnee suggested "surface area" for this. IMHO, that term would likely be interpreted as the total area of P-tex on the base of the ski. I prefer the more precise "load bearing area" or "contact area".

Obviously, this concept is a bit vague in soft snow where, depending on the depth and density of the soft snow, the area of the ski in contact with the snow can vary from the area of the ski that is cambered to the area that is cambered PLUS the upturned tip and tail areas.

Of course, in both hard and soft snow, because of the longitudinal flex of the ski, some regions along the length of the ski will be contributing very little to support the skier, whereas other regions (e.g., directly underfoot) will be doing much more to support the skier. This can be represented by a pressure distribution curve. There is a mathematical procedure which can then be used on this curve to determine another quantity related to area called the "effective load bearing area". This is always significantly smaller than "load bearing area", and is much more useful when analyzing the mechanics of the ski and its interactions with the snow.

Thus, in order of decreasing numerical value you have the following area-related quantities:

1) Total base area = total p-tex area
2) Total load bearing area = #1 minus tip and tail upturn
3) Effective load bearing area = usually from 35% to 60% of #2 (higher on stiffer skis).

HTH,

Tom / PM
post #24 of 34
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much Tom! I love the physcal/mechanic acuteness in context with skiing. We are in a research cooperation on ski parameters of wide skis (of course the load bearing area plays a key role) with university for sports science in vienna, under project leadership of a physicist. The more I get into the dynamic view of skiing, the easier I find things to explain.
post #25 of 34
In case no one has said it yet...........Welcome to EpicSki!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bastl


Hi,

I'm working on the translation of the ski manual together with skifex...

now what I would need is the name of the action, that then causes the edge angle...

I'm not as profound in skiing terms, as skifex, so an upfront excuse for "stupid questions"
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastl


now what I would need is the name of the action, that then causes the edge angle...
Wilkommen zu Epicski .

Die Terme sollte 'edge tipping' sein.
Mein Deutsch ist leider nicht so gut mehr .
post #27 of 34
Contact length is the term that describes the area of the ski in contact with the snow. Cord length describes the actual length of the ski including the tip.
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifex
Thank you very much Tom! I love the physcal/mechanic acuteness in context with skiing. We are in a research cooperation on ski parameters of wide skis (of course the load bearing area plays a key role) with university for sports science in vienna, under project leadership of a physicist. The more I get into the dynamic view of skiing, the easier I find things to explain.
You are quite welcome, and I totally agree with your last comment.

By the way, one should never be surprised to find a physicist leading a skiing project. A surprisingly large fraction of physicists are skiers. For example, most of the physicists that developed the foundations of modern physics in the 1920's, particularly, quantum mechanics, were avid skiers. If I remember correctly, this included Hans Bethe, Werner Heisenberg, Max Born, Erwin Schrödinger, Arnold Sommerfeld, etc. It turns out that Bethe was my minor advisor in Theoretical Physics back in the 70's. If I recall the story correctly, Heisenberg was so in love with skiing that in the winter, he would often ski the short distance down the hill in Heidelberg from his house to the University to give his lectures. I think that Sommerfeld even owned a ski hut in which many of the seminal discussions of quantum mechanics were held.

Cheers,

Tom / PM
post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro
Contact length is the term that describes the area of the ski in contact with the snow. Cord length describes the actual length of the ski including the tip.
Adding to the list of length-related terms, don't forget, "material length". While cord length is the length of a piece of string that you might stretch between the tip of the upturned tip and the tail, material length is the length you would measure if the string was not stretched tight, but was pressed onto the ski and followed the tip and tail upturns.

Tom / PM
post #30 of 34
Thread Starter 

Heisenberg at a Skitrip
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