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Household income - Page 6

Poll Results: What is your yearly household income?

Poll expired: Aug 9, 2006  
  • 1% (3)
    0-10,000
  • 5% (11)
    10,001-30,000
  • 6% (12)
    30,001-50,000
  • 14% (28)
    50,001-75,000
  • 12% (23)
    75,001-100,000
  • 16% (32)
    100,001-125,000
  • 10% (20)
    125,001-150,000
  • 30% (59)
    150,001+
  • 1% (3)
    Ken Lay had pocket change
191 Total Votes  
post #151 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco
Now that's what I'm talkin' about. You go girl!!
I will, and I do! See the big grin on my face......!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
From the stats collected, I'm going to assume that the more vocal of the people on this forum are financially comfortable.
I would venture a guess that some of the more vocal of the people on this forum aren't necessarily the most financially comfy. I'm a little surprised by this comment.
post #152 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkXS
...
I get horrified by the thought of people within a few hours of a ski area spending thousands to take the little darlings to Disney each year but never take them skiing (or riding). ...
One thing Colorado has going for it is the fifth grade free skiing (and I believe lesson and rental). The ski areas of Colorado sponsor free skiing for fifth graders (not sure of the number of times they can go, I think 2 or 3 times).

I have taught a number of low income children in the fifth grade on this program that could not afford to ski otherwise.
post #153 of 191
Thread Starter 
It's just that I'm an idiot, that's all. Idiots like me always make wrong assumptions in the eyes of others.

Fox, I've seen your tv. Was that really necessary? My tv cost $200.

Priorities.

We moved because I worked my arse off on a house and made improvements by using sweat labor and not hiring out. Who works harder? Who can say. Labor of love for me.

Have a beer and chill. This isn't about you.......or me. WINK.
post #154 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
One thing Colorado has going for it is the fifth grade free skiing (and I believe lesson and rental). The ski areas of Colorado sponsor free skiing for fifth graders (not sure of the number of times they can go, I think 2 or 3 times).

I have taught a number of low income children in the fifth grade on this program that could not afford to ski otherwise.
School programs of all kinds help to establish some enthusiasm in a lower income bracket.
The program I run at our school offers kids a chance to learn to ski for $10/lift and rental included Lessons can be set up ahead of time at no extra charge.
The parents go FREE if they are chaperoning the program!
The ski resorts are assuring a future in thier industry if they get them excited while they're young.
post #155 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
Fox, I've seen your tv. Was that really necessary? My tv cost $200.
I've seen your kitchen - and you want to rip it out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
This isn't about you.......or me. WINK.
If it's not about you or me, then what is it about, and why make the comments about how you know how comfortable people are based on their salary?

Now, go chill, have a beer, and think about how better to judge people. (or maybe not to judge them at all!)
post #156 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)
One thing Colorado has going for it is the fifth grade free skiing (and I believe lesson and rental). The ski areas of Colorado sponsor free skiing for fifth graders (not sure of the number of times they can go, I think 2 or 3 times).

I have taught a number of low income children in the fifth grade on this program that could not afford to ski otherwise.
We have a similar thing in this part of CA. All the schools have regular "field trips" to whatever resort is the closest. The resorts offer rentals and lift tickets for next to nothing.

Both my sons learn to ski at age 8 for free through the local schools. They are now 21 and 25 and are expert level.
post #157 of 191
Thread Starter 
Yes, Fox. If you found this thread 'upsetting', then why involve yourself?

Yeah, the kitchen is someone else's idea. I will keep it for spite now.

Gawd, I hate summer.
post #158 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
Gawd, I hate summer.
No one here hates summer more than the Mod Squad...
post #159 of 191
I appreciate everyone's suggestions for how I can ski for less money; as I said in my earlier post, I'm not complaining about the cost - I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford it. I don't need to combine skiing with a European vacation; I been to Europe several times, and when I want to go back, I will. I won't waste my time driving six hours to northwestern North Carolina; I'd rather just fly to Colorado or Utah. I've considered trips with the Jacksonville Ski Club, but have never seen one of their itineraries that I've really liked, so for now I'll stick with planning my own trips.

I do still feel that the following are true:
1.) for people who live far from the mountains skiing is well nigh impossible, unless you're in upper-middle or upper class income level.
2.) even for people who live in the Front Range cities or the Northeast, skiing can still be cost-prohibitive; some middle-class families cannot spare even the 2-3K a year (I grew up in a Front Range city, middle class family, and it was a stretch); I know it's sacriledge to say it on this site, but there are people who have interests ouside of skiing, and so they have to make a choice (and that choice may not necessarily be Disney World).
3.) I know there examples of people who have little disposable income, yet who still manage to ski many days each season; if skiing is your sole priority that's great, I have absolutely no problem with that and I'm in no way critical of that life-decision - in fact, once my kids are through with college I plan on scaling-back my practice and becoming a middle-aged "gentleman" ski bum.

An earlier post asked why there are so many "bears", who in responding to the above poll, placed themselves in the upper income brackets. Well there are probably several reasons, not the least of which is that skiing is expensive. As I said earlier, I'm not complaining about the cost. I'm fortunate enough that I can ski and pursue my other interests. However, not everyone is in that same situation.
post #160 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrjax
...
2.) even for people who live in the Front Range cities or the Northeast, skiing can still be cost-prohibitive; some middle-class families cannot spare even the 2-3K a year (I grew up in a Front Range city, middle class family, and it was a stretch); I know it's sacriledge to say it on this site, but there are people who have interests ouside of skiing, and so they have to make a choice (and that choice may not necessarily be Disney World)....
I believe you said it was several years ago that you lived on the Front Range? The costs are much cheaper for lift tickets (season passes and 4, 6 and 10 packs) due to all the competition for the front range $. Ask anyone that lives out here, NOW.
post #161 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrjax

I do still feel that the following are true:
1.) for people who live far from the mountains skiing is well nigh impossible, unless you're in upper-middle or upper class income level.
2.) even for people who live in the Front Range cities or the Northeast, skiing can still be cost-prohibitive; some middle-class families cannot spare even the 2-3K a year (I grew up in a Front Range city, middle class family, and it was a stretch); I know it's sacriledge to say it on this site, but there are people who have interests ouside of skiing, and so they have to make a choice (and that choice may not necessarily be Disney World).
3.) I know there examples of people who have little disposable income, yet who still manage to ski many days each season; if skiing is your sole priority that's great, I have absolutely no problem with that and I'm in no way critical of that life-decision - in fact, once my kids are through with college I plan on scaling-back my practice and becoming a middle-aged "gentleman" ski bum.
An important insight is worth repeating (as I've often stated in other threads when the cost of skiing or the growth of the sport are the topics).

I really don't want to go to Disney but my daughter's high school band will be marching on Main Street this spring and my 8 year old son has never been there and, like most kids, loves theme parks. How can I not go to watch my daughter and the school band have their moment? Music is more important in her life than skiing. How can I deny my son this particular pleasure? His sister went to Disney at that age. How can I also ski a worthy mountain and advance my skill and pursue my own bliss?

I don't know but I'll figure a way.
post #162 of 191
Thread Starter 
We're also learning that lots of Bears are trying their best to make it work. Thanks, Mr. Crazie. I feel your pain.
post #163 of 191
icanseeformiles - according to medmarkco his seasons pass cost $600-$700. The average household income in Colorado in 2000 was around $61K (incidentally, the 12th highest in the US). If that household has a net income of 48K, and it's a family of four skiers, the cost of the passes alone represents five percent of their net income. It's a lot of money to them, and if they love to ski, they may decide it's worth it. However, many families in a similar financial situation might have to decide between skiing and seeing their daughter march in a parade at Walt Disney World. Skiing was expensive when I was growing up in CO in the 1960's, and it's expensive NOW (your emphasis).
post #164 of 191
I have a different perspective on people on the front range skiing currently than you have. I have the advantage of living on/near to the front range, and teaching at a resort that is frequented by front range skiers, and the crowds can be overwhelming on weekends. Why?

Perhaps many people find it to be not as expensive as you believe. Of course, it is expensive to anyone that must travel several hours, or fly to go skiing. However, Vail, Copper, Breckenridge, Keystone, Loveland, A Basin, Winter Park and Sol Vista are all within 3 hours of Denver. Try driving i-70 on a Saturday morning or Sunday evening, and then tell me that skiing is too expensive for people on the front range.
post #165 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrjax
However, many families in a similar financial situation might have to decide between skiing and seeing their daughter march in a parade at Walt Disney World. Skiing was expensive when I was growing up in CO in the 1960's, and it's expensive NOW (your emphasis).
Yeah and now I have to take into account the added cost from the scalpers for Steelers tickets since the Super Bowl win.

Do you still think the Super Bowl is an event attended by mostly corporate types, certainly not when the Steelers are there. What you forgot to consider is the fact that business folks know when to make a profit and a Steelers fan's fanaticism knows no bounds.

It has long been my contention that, unless you're introduced to the sport at as a child, young adult or childless couple, the expense and logistical hassle of taking up the sport is daunting. How far is it to the nearest golf course, how far to the nearest ski slope? I think it's a big reason families aren't coming out in droves. Couple this with the closure of local hills then the expense and hassle increases.

Now let's consider the person that has access to a local hill but has also acquired enough skill that the local hill is no longer a challenge and is not perceived as a bargain. In my case, if I hadn't taken my family skiing I'd ski very little locally. The local hill is great for the kids but now there's less money for me to seek a greater challenge (steeps, trees and powder) up north or out west. Being a part time instructor helps but now my free time is compromised.

From the purely selfish point of view I could have said screw the family and kept skiing as my own avocation then I would have abandoned an opportunity to share this great experience and all the developmental or growth opportunities our sport offers to my family. My life would certainly be poorer.

It comes down to choice and compromise, the balance between my needs as a individual, a father and sole income earner and the individual and collective needs of my family members. Snow sports too often become the compromise for most folks in my income bracket (bottom third in this poll).

Bonni, it appears that folks like us (near poor) are the exception in this sport therefore have no market clout at least when it comes to the big league and the little hill soon lose there appeal.
post #166 of 191
Thread Starter 
Perhaps, Mr. C.

There are still little hills that charge little money, and they are still in business. It's inexpensive to ski at Bousquet, yet it isn't all that crowded. Why not? It's a little hill in a town of 30,000 people. I just don't get that.

Most of the people there are kids. It's a big day care. Drop your kids off on Saturday morning and they can play all day.

Why aren't the adults skiing at these places? That's what I'd like to know.
post #167 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonni
Perhaps, Mr. C.

There are still little hills that charge little money, and they are still in business. It's inexpensive to ski at Bousquet, yet it isn't all that crowded. Why not? It's a little hill in a town of 30,000 people. I just don't get that.

Most of the people there are kids. It's a big day care. Drop your kids off on Saturday morning and they can play all day.

Why aren't the adults skiing at these places? That's what I'd like to know.
Quote:
Now let's consider the person that has access to a local hill but has also acquired enough skill that the local hill is no longer a challenge and is not perceived as a bargain. In my case, if I hadn't taken my family skiing I'd ski very little locally. The local hill is great for the kids but now there's less money for me to seek a greater challenge (steeps, trees and powder) up north or out west. Being a part time instructor helps but now my free time is compromised.
That's just my uninformed opinion.
post #168 of 191
Thread Starter 
I read that, but does it apply to everyone?

Can the 'Milton Keynes' of skiing become droll and uninspiring?
post #169 of 191
I think where you live is the key driver to skiing cost. Ski areas come in 3 groups: daytrip, weekend drive, and get on an airplane. SoCal where I live gives you all 3 options. I'm with Laurel Hill on the local skiing. SoCal other than Baldy when in full operation (less than 30% of the time) becomes uninteresting to the advanced skier, so the weekend trips to Mammoth take over and add lodging but not air cost to the picture. For those with grandfathered Value Passes ($485 for 2006-07) Mammoth can be quite reasonable.

My "family years" in the late 1980's and 1990's cost about 5-6K per season (inclusive of equipment, daycare for kids below ski age, everything skiing-related) for an average of 60 ski days divided among 2 avid skiers and 2 more casual skiers. This usually meant a one week destination trip for everyone, a long weekend for me and the more avid son, plus Mammoth weekends and local. For the weeklong family vacations you can increase flexibility and slash costs by driving rather than flying to destination resorts from anywhere west of the Rockies. The weeklong trips were nearly always at first-of-April spring break and only twice (against my better judgment) during Christmas week.

L.A. is an above average location for a skier, but if it's a real priority you can do much better. One friend I know finally got fed up with the East and beat the bushes until he got a job in Salt Lake City. He has an Altabird pass, got in 60+ days this year using minimal vacation time and few $ other than the pass. And I have little doubt that the average quality of his ski days would keep most of us on this board very happy.
post #170 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker
Ski areas come in 3 groups: daytrip, weekend drive, and get on an airplane. SoCal where I live gives you all 3 options.
From where I live there are also three options, 1) day trip: Montana Snowbowl (half hour), Discovery, Lookout Pass, Lost Trail Powder Mountain (90 minutes), Big Mountain (3 hours); 2) weekend trip: Bridger Bowl, Big Sky (5 hours); and 3) why bother.

Missoula gives you all three options.

If those weren't enough, and I was willing to put in a whole day's driving, I could reach Jackson Hole, Grand Targhee, Fernie, Kicking Horse, Snowbasin, Alta, Snowbird, The Canyons, Park City, Deer Valley, Solitude, Mt. Baker, Alpental, White Pass, Sun Valley, Crystal Mountain, Mission Ridge, and so many others I feel overwhelmed trying to think of them all. But hey, gas is expensive, so why leave Montana?

Since I have Snowbowl within a half an hour (and I get a pass there), even going to Discovery seems like an unnecessary use of gas money, but of course, I'm only middle-upper-lower class.
post #171 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict
From where I live there are also three options, 1) day trip: Montana Snowbowl (half hour), Discovery, Lookout Pass, Lost Trail Powder Mountain (90 minutes), Big Mountain (3 hours); 2) weekend trip: Bridger Bowl, Big Sky (5 hours); and 3) why bother.

Missoula gives you all three options.

If those weren't enough, and I was willing to put in a whole day's driving, I could reach Jackson Hole, Grand Targhee, Fernie, Kicking Horse, Snowbasin, Alta, Snowbird, The Canyons, Park City, Deer Valley, Solitude, Mt. Baker, Alpental, White Pass, Sun Valley, Crystal Mountain, Mission Ridge, and so many others I feel overwhelmed trying to think of them all. But hey, gas is expensive, so why leave Montana?

Since I have Snowbowl within a half an hour (and I get a pass there), even going to Discovery seems like an unnecessary use of gas money, but of course, I'm only middle-upper-lower class.
that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. from Boulder we have Eldora 25 minutes away, then Loveland and ABasin about 1-1/2 hours, Winter Park 2 hours, the rest of Summit County probably around 2 hours away, Copper maybe 2-1/2 hours and Vail around 3 hours. A weekend trip? Taos, Telluride, Aspen or Jackson (really SLC is within weekend reach). Some people do the Beav as a day trip. Someplace to fly to? gee, where would I go that wasn't within driving distance - maybe Whistler.
post #172 of 191
VA, not that you'd want to, but what about Lookout Pass, Silver and Schweitzer?
post #173 of 191
Thread Starter 
I was with you till you said Lookout Pass.:
post #174 of 191
never have skied those three, but spent a couple of months in cda about 3 Springs ago.
post #175 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j
Fox, what is the fuel efficiency range of cars that are popular and readily available?

I drive something that on a good day on the highway gets 18 miles per gallon (4 litre Ford Ranger 4wd pickup) that will very soon get traded for something more fuel efficient due to my upcoming commute distance increase. OTOH Bonnis Saturn gets close to 40 MPG on highway.

At 7 bucks a gallon, this truck would have been history long long ago. I've kept it this long because my current commute is less than 5 miles.

...just to go back to this one, since I've been driving a hire car for 2 weeks, and the computer was reset when I picked it up...
1.5 litre Diesel Renault Clio.

Average over 600miles: 47mpg (US)
post #176 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat
...just to go back to this one, since I've been driving a hire car for 2 weeks, and the computer was reset when I picked it up...
1.5 litre Diesel Renault Clio.

Average over 600miles: 47mpg (US)
Impressive! I'll have to google the model so I can see what it looks like. If you were not renting it---would you buy such a car for the long term?? Or are you trading off too much in comfort and performance for that efficiency??

We haven't had a good car thread in awhile---should we peel this off to a seperate thread?
post #177 of 191
It will do 85mph on the highway no problem. The engine is lively enough for going up and down hills, and it takes hairpin bends well. It's got enough room for 4 adults (but a small trunk)...
I'd consider it, except I need a car with a big enough trunk to carry guitars and an amp, and I think it would fail that one.
post #178 of 191
post #179 of 191
I just went to take a look, it is a small car, that for sure (by US standards anyway). I'll be looking for my next car very soon---while it is not a must have on my list, deisel certainly won't disqualify a vehicle.
post #180 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j
I just went to take a look, it is a small car, that for sure (by US standards anyway). I'll be looking for my next car very soon---while it is not a must have on my list, deisel certainly won't disqualify a vehicle.
With gas prices these days I wouldn't disqualify diesel. With the advent of biodiesel, it's fairly inexpensive to modify the stock diesel engine to make it compatible. Then you'll save in fuel expenditures.
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